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Mahrs

Unpopular Opinion of the Day - Radar + Rock Hump = OWSF

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For exactly the same reason.  A ship that can spot for itself and shoot without in turn being spotted --> no fear of reprisal, no "counterplay" by the ship being engaged.  OWSF was bad enough that WG removed it in a heavy handed fashion with far reaching impacts across at least two classes of ship.  Rock humping so folks can play WoT, aquatic edition?  Hard to see why that would be considered "good to go."

By games played, I'm a cruiser guy.  I've got several ships with radar, to include Missouri.  I am leaning more towards BB at the moment.  Radar, as currently implemented, is...ahem...manure.  I preface that comment so you understand it's not a DD guy whining, though I do play DD.  As a guy with a premium that has radar and took me over a year to acquire with free exp, I'm telling you I would take the straight removal if it got radar out of the game - because if the choice is binary, in or out, in its current state I choose "out."

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17 minutes ago, Mahrs said:

A ship that can spot for itself and shoot without in turn being spotted --> no fear of reprisal, no "counterplay" by the ship being engaged. 

Is this about OWSF or carriers?

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You realise it is possible to shoot from behind a rock in such a way that you are not spotted, without requiring radar? It's called "team play". 

If you cannot see from behind your rock without radar, quite frankly it's time to find another rock.

I have been gunned down from behind rocks by non-radar-bearing ships, and by radar-bearing ships from beyond their radar range. Your rant seems pointless to me. 

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Well I know what's happening to this thread.

 

it sucks but it's obvious.

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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35 minutes ago, Mahrs said:

For exactly the same reason.  A ship that can spot for itself and shoot without in turn being spotted --> no fear of reprisal, no "counterplay" by the ship being engaged.  OWSF was bad enough that WG removed it in a heavy handed fashion with far reaching impacts across at least two classes of ship.  Rock humping so folks can play WoT, aquatic edition?  Hard to see why that would be considered "good to go."

By games played, I'm a cruiser guy.  I've got several ships with radar, to include Missouri.  I am leaning more towards BB at the moment.  Radar, as currently implemented, is...ahem...manure.  I preface that comment so you understand it's not a DD guy whining, though I do play DD.  As a guy with a premium that has radar and took me over a year to acquire with free exp, I'm telling you I would take the straight removal if it got radar out of the game - because if the choice is binary, in or out, in its current state I choose "out."

You understand that doing this is not a radar issue, but is someone using the gameplay mechanics to put themselves in a strong position?

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I like seeing ships hiding behind islands, stuck to the rocks like moss, their guns firing, shells just barely passing over the outcroppings shielding them from harm. I love knowing that they have to stay behind that rock now, that they've chosen that position to fight and die in. Moving up, neutering their fire by being too close—shells hitting the rock now, the same thing that had protected them from harm now protecting me as well. There's a delicious moment where rounding the rock brings you right next to the would-be-island-humper, and you can see the panic in their frantic manoeuvres—or the limited amount of movement they can do. After all, there's a rock next to them. If you're a battleship, maybe you can kill the enemy ship in one salvo. You'll certainly do more damage to them then they can do to you. If you're in a cruiser, well....It depends. (My favourite engagement I've ever been in involved me in my Henri, and 2 enemy DMs. They realised too late that I had come for them.) 

As a bonus, have you ever noticed that most the ships hiding behind islands, slinging HE, don't have torpedoes? Most of them are USN cruisers, and only Atlanta/Flint have that honour. Why should you fear getting up close and personal?   

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I'd say that finding the rocks you can abuse is also a skill/map knowledge gap in the playerbase. There is a counterplay for it, just not every time due to ship selection or positioning. Spotter plane helps arc shells over their cover island nicely. I wouldn't say it's near as broken as the old OWSF was.

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11 minutes ago, Panic512 said:

You understand that doing this is not a radar issue, but is someone using the gameplay mechanics to put themselves in a strong position?

Agreed.    A more important point is to not be the target of that guy behind the rock that's using radar to spot and fire unseen.

Those Woostah drivers were my bane.   I'd get in an engagement, and here come the Woostahs, raining hellfire on my bote.     So....   I started paying attention to where and how they hide, and not put my bote in an area where they could exploit my hull.

Thus, if I'm caught with someone invisifiring over islands, that's on me.   I didn't have enough situational awareness to position differently.      Sometimes it happens, but if I can mitigate it, and better, anticipate where they'll be, perhaps I can send a citadel or two to give them pause before aiming at me again.

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1 minute ago, DiddleDum said:

Agreed.    A more important point is to not be the target of that guy behind the rock that's using radar to spot and fire unseen.

Those Woostah drivers were my bane.   I'd get in an engagement, and here come the Woostahs, raining hellfire on my bote.     So....   I started paying attention to where and how they hide, and not put my bote in an area where they could exploit my hull.

Thus, if I'm caught with someone invisifiring over islands, that's on me.   I didn't have enough situational awareness to position differently.      Sometimes it happens, but if I can mitigate it, and better, anticipate where they'll be, perhaps I can send a citadel or two to give them pause before aiming at me again.

I found that a good counter to them is to run spotter plane on a battleship. I have deleted countless number of Des Moines, Minos, and Worcesters with it on Yamato.

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I've always been of the believe the use of island cover is good counter play for ships that can't be out in the open.  Like many things WG tends to piss in the well and ruined a good thing.  I still think island cover is a good tactic its just that WG has added things like radar, hydro, double spotter planes, IFHE, 1/4 pen HE, and a metric ton of HE spam ship ships and the balance is starting to get out of wack. 

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I had you in a round last night, and it would appear your in game decorum is the same as it is here. My dude, there's this thing called "adapting", if you aren't willing to do it, then you really shouldn't be playing this game, as it always changes.

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That is exactly why competitive teams set up cross fires and don't all stick together.

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1 hour ago, Mahrs said:

For exactly the same reason.  A ship that can spot for itself and shoot without in turn being spotted --> no fear of reprisal, no "counterplay" by the ship being engaged.  OWSF was bad enough that WG removed it in a heavy handed fashion with far reaching impacts across at least two classes of ship.  Rock humping so folks can play WoT, aquatic edition?  Hard to see why that would be considered "good to go."

By games played, I'm a cruiser guy.  I've got several ships with radar, to include Missouri.  I am leaning more towards BB at the moment.  Radar, as currently implemented, is...ahem...manure.  I preface that comment so you understand it's not a DD guy whining, though I do play DD.  As a guy with a premium that has radar and took me over a year to acquire with free exp, I'm telling you I would take the straight removal if it got radar out of the game - because if the choice is binary, in or out, in its current state I choose "out."

Checks calendar, yup it is a day ending in y. Could radar use some work, of course but do you really want to go back to the torpedo soup meta from before radar?

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Maybe people posting on a daily basis about how bad radar is could be a sign that maybe radar in its current form isn't a good addition to the game, and adding a ton of ships equipped with it just provided exposure on how bad it is?

 

Naw, couldn't be.

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OW, no. SF, yes. The radar meta right now is difficult, but is on the back end of the hump (IMO).

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55 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Drink

But it's 9:32 in the mo...

Never mind.

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How does Radar even factor in? Usually if you're behind an island you're not hitting much except your island Wifu if the target is under 10km.

Outside of that OWSF by Cruisers was at long distances.

Most island shooting is done with other ships spotting.

I mean, if you want to stop it your best bet is to either buff low velocity guns to higher velocity, or nerfing DD spotting ability.

I'd love the velocity change, but nerfing my DD buddies seems like a real ship idea 

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17 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

But it's 9:32 in the mo...

Never mind.

:Smile_teethhappy:

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The other day my T10 BB was whittled down from 96% HP to 0% HP in under a minute by one t10 cruiser hiding behind a rock using radar and whatever enhanced radar consumables and equipment. 

His rate of fire was such that the shells coming at me looked like a solid yellow arch. This is what the high tier battles have become. A good reason why I try to avoid them these days.

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4 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

The other day my T10 BB was whittled down from 96% HP to 0% HP in under a minute by one t10 cruiser hiding behind a rock using radar and whatever enhanced radar consumables and equipment. 

His rate of fire was such that the shells coming at me looked like a solid yellow arch. This is what the high tier battles have become. A good reason why I try to avoid them these days.

Now imagine being in a DD in that situation...with that cruiser magically sharing that radar data instantly with all his buddies. Your existence is measured in seconds. 

Edited by Thornir
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2 hours ago, Mahrs said:

For exactly the same reason.  A ship that can spot for itself and shoot without in turn being spotted --> no fear of reprisal, no "counterplay" by the ship being engaged.  OWSF was bad enough that WG removed it in a heavy handed fashion with far reaching impacts across at least two classes of ship.  Rock humping so folks can play WoT, aquatic edition?  Hard to see why that would be considered "good to go."

By games played, I'm a cruiser guy.  I've got several ships with radar, to include Missouri.  I am leaning more towards BB at the moment.  Radar, as currently implemented, is...ahem...manure.  I preface that comment so you understand it's not a DD guy whining, though I do play DD.  As a guy with a premium that has radar and took me over a year to acquire with free exp, I'm telling you I would take the straight removal if it got radar out of the game - because if the choice is binary, in or out, in its current state I choose "out."

- Radar is broken. Ignoring LoS is ignoring a fundamental rule set of the environment. Why not shells? Why not Torpedoes? Why not ships ignoring collision as well?

- There was never ANY justification for Radar to even exist in game. It is a hard counter to the lowest performing ship type which has been lowest performing since the game was playable.

- Radar utilizing shared spotting is also broken. It should only share the revealed ships spotting data with ally ships in the SAME radius as the radar ONLY. When a DD pops smoke, does all his allies also billow smoke from their ship wherever they are?  When a Cruiser pops Repair party, do all ships on his team get healed at the same time?  When a DM pops DFAA, does it get popped for ALL his ally ships?

 

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1 hour ago, Madwolf05 said:

How does Radar even factor in? Usually if you're behind an island you're not hitting much except your island Wifu if the target is under 10km.

Outside of that OWSF by Cruisers was at long distances.

Most island shooting is done with other ships spotting.

I mean, if you want to stop it your best bet is to either buff low velocity guns to higher velocity, or nerfing DD spotting ability.

I'd love the velocity change, but nerfing my DD buddies seems like a real ship idea 

Yeah, Madwolf, I don't remember all radar ships perfectly, but it seems to me that if a radar ship with active radar is hiding behind an island, it's unlikely that it would be able to lob shells over said island to hit any ship it has radared.  I may be wrong about this, but it usually seems that any ship you can hit when firing behind an island is usually at a range where you would NOT be able to radar that same target ship.  Note that this doesn't include extremely low islands where it's possible that the island a) doesn't fully hide your ship visually or b) doesn't fully protect your ship from incoming fire.

 

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