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lipiru

Please give HE to Minotaur

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Oh wait, never mind...

 

We got the Harugumo. 

 

On a more serious note, I thought WG didn't like smoke + IFHE meta...

 

lipiru

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Just now, lipiru said:

Oh wait, never mind...

 

We got the Harugumo. 

 

On a more serious note, I thought WG didn't like smoke + IFHE meta...

 

lipiru

Flint, hello?

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3 minutes ago, lipiru said:

Oh wait, never mind...

 

We got the Harugumo. 

 

On a more serious note, I thought WG didn't like smoke + IFHE meta...

 

lipiru

just like any destroyer can? They they release the Russian dd's, no one bat a eye. but when they finally release a gun boat Japanese dd, everyone loses their minds.

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8 minutes ago, Yoshiblue said:

Wouldn't that be the Worcester? 

I would say yes but than the Worcester doesn't have smoke. Well it can but you need to bolt a Gearing to your side. 

I find running a DD, Worcester and Minotaur to be a lot of fun. 

:cap_haloween:

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Minotaur: Makes Omaha look sturdy.

Harugumo: Can't turn for ****, easy target for CVs, torpedoes, and rail-gun cruisers.

Worcester: *See Minotaur above*.

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21 minutes ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

While this is a troll post, they should give the mino something, it has been power creep hardcore at this point. 

There are far more diserving ships that should be looked at first.

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1 hour ago, MajorRenegade said:

just like any destroyer can? They they release the Russian dd's, no one bat a eye. but when they finally release a gun boat Japanese dd, everyone loses their minds.

Well, Haragumo can put out 240,000 HE DPM which penetrates 32mm plating.

The best competition otherwise can put out 216,000 HE DPM which cannot penetrate 32mm.

Harugumo's not just a destroyer that can sit in smoke and shoot a bit.

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59 minutes ago, mofton said:

Well, Haragumo can put out 240,000 HE DPM which penetrates 32mm plating.

The best competition otherwise can put out 216,000 HE DPM which cannot penetrate 32mm.

Harugumo's not just a destroyer that can sit in smoke and shoot a bit.

Gearing has longer lasting smoke, and torpedoes that aren't seen from orbit. That, and 10 torpedoes every reload (assuming both turrets are used every time), where Harugumo only gets it's best 12 (with 5 second delay between the two sets of six) only 4 times maximum. Comparing torpedo range, Harugumo averages 10km range (8km for F3 and 12 for type 93 mod. 3), while Gearing Averages 13.5km (10.5 for Mk16, and 16.5 for MK17). SO, not only does Gearing have torpedoes that aren't seen from space, but torpedoes with longer range, but also a consistent 10 torpedoes per salvo, while Harugumo's torpedoes are seen from space, and shorter range, but it makes up for it with higher damage output of a single torpedo (doesn't help much if the torpedoes can be easily dodged), and faster torpedoes (being seen from space makes that speed negligible)... Gearing is 0.3 knots faster, has a tighter turn radius, and faster rudder shift, making it harder to hit. Harugumo has slower speed, slower rudder shift, and turns like a battleship, making it easier to hit. Gearing also has faster turret traverse speed of the main battery guns, allowing it to switch targets far more frequently, and quickly.

The only saving grace for Harugumo are the 1/4 HE pen 100mm guns. Without that, Harugumo would be complete garbage, being unable to damage anything, except by fire or AP shells... and if AP shells had to be used for damage, angled ships would be a very big problem... so yeah fires would be Harugumo's only best friend, if it didn't have the 1/4 penetration...

DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES HARUGUMO COMPETITIVE!

Edited by Counter_Gambit
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6 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

Gearing has longer lasting smoke, and torpedoes that aren't seen from orbit. That, and 10 torpedoes every reload (assuming both turrets are used every time), where Harugumo only gets it's best 12 (with 5 second delay between the two sets of six) only 4 times maximum. Comparing torpedo range, Harugumo averages 10km range (8km for F3 and 12 for type 93 mod. 3), while Gearing Averages 13.5km (10.5 for Mk16, and 16.5 for MK17). SO, not only does Gearing have torpedoes that aren't seen from space, but torpedoes with longer range, but also a consistent 10 torpedoes per salvo, while Harugumo's torpedoes are seen from space, and shorter range, but it makes up for it with higher damage output of a single torpedo (doesn't help much if the torpedoes can be easily dodged), and faster torpedoes (being seen from space makes that speed negligible)... Gearing is 0.3 knots faster, has a tighter turn radius, and faster rudder shift, making it harder to hit. Harugumo has slower speed, slower rudder shift, and turns like a battleship, making it easier to hit. Gearing also has faster turret traverse speed of the main battery guns, allowing it to switch targets far more frequently, and quickly.

The only saving grace for Harugumo are the 1/4 HE pen 100mm guns. Without that, Harugumo would be complete garbage, being unable to damage anything, except by fire or AP shells... and if AP shells had to be used for damage, angled ships would be a very big problem... so yeah fires would be Harugumo's only best friend, if it didn't have the 1/4 penetration...

DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES HARUGUMO COMPETITIVE!

I heard the HP pool was nice, but vanished faster under focus fire than my Hindy showing full broadside to a division ofDes Moines. 

 

Harugumo, while strong in the hands of a good player, like most ships, seems fine for now as it pays for it dearly with no concealment, fatness, slowness, ugliness when hit (Hindy: load AP, it pens and does 10k apparently), and a turning circle to match. Is it just me, or are all T10 Japanese ships that way, require skill with good payout (Shima is an exception). 

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11 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES HARUGUMO COMPETITIVE!

:cap_haloween::cap_haloween::cap_haloween: :cap_old:seriously?

 

They don't take things away - they NERF things. Think nail protruding from board. It's "above board", disturbing the natural state of all nails. It must be hammered into place, so all things, including the board, are in harmony, in balance. 

 

:fish_cute_2: Good luck with your anti-nerf campaign. 

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1 hour ago, Counter_Gambit said:

DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES HARUGUMO COMPETITIVE!

I believe I stated that Haragumo's firepower was significantly different from destroyers. Not that I thought she should be nerfed. If I'd wanted her nerfed I'd have said 'she should be nerfed' or something like that....

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2 hours ago, mofton said:

Well, Haragumo can put out 240,000 HE DPM which penetrates 32mm plating.

The best competition otherwise can put out 216,000 HE DPM which cannot penetrate 32mm.

Harugumo's not just a destroyer that can sit in smoke and shoot a bit.

This^

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4 hours ago, MajorRenegade said:

They they release the Russian dd's, no one bat a eye. but when they finally release a gun boat Japanese dd, everyone loses their minds.

That's because Russian DDs can't pen 32mm of armor and they don't really come close to the DPM levels of the new IJN DDs.  Give the Khabarovsk 1/4 HE and pen the same range as the Harugumo, and oh you'll see people lose their minds.

Edited by yashma

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Honestly the whole IJN gunboat line should be changed in their torpedoes not guns.

Aka, starting Akizuki, they should have DW torps and NO torp reload booster.

Instead of the torp reload booster they should get the AA barrage which is what the line should have received in the first place.

Akizuki: 12km DW torps

Kitakaze: 12km DW torps stock, SLOW (55kn) 20km torps 2nd upgrade

Haragumo: asashio's 20km torps DW.

With that you have a gunboat with torps that can only hit cvs and BBs and has the AA ability the line should have.

It does NOT increase damage output since the DW do no different damage than the 12km shimakaze torps. It does not increase damage since there is no torp reload booster.

It does however, prevent a monster gunboat from having torps that can hit the ships that are its natural predators..other DDs and cruisers.  

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29 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Honestly the whole IJN gunboat line should be changed in their torpedoes not guns.

Aka, starting Akizuki, they should have DW torps and NO torp reload booster.

Instead of the torp reload booster they should get the AA barrage which is what the line should have received in the first place.

Akizuki: 12km DW torps

Kitakaze: 12km DW torps stock, SLOW (55kn) 20km torps 2nd upgrade

Haragumo: asashio's 20km torps DW.

With that you have a gunboat with torps that can only hit cvs and BBs and has the AA ability the line should have.

It does NOT increase damage output since the DW do no different damage than the 12km shimakaze torps. It does not increase damage since there is no torp reload booster.

It does however, prevent a monster gunboat from having torps that can hit the ships that are its natural predators..other DDs and cruisers.  

The new IJN DDs already get eaten like a snack by others DDs and Cruisers. 

People forget IJN turret rotation is horrible, and they can't take RPF as there are not enough points. Get in close with another DD and angle, and the new IJN boats are close to helpless.

Because of this, they can't cap or knife fight. Sure, they can dish out damage to ships that cannot hide, like BBs, but that is seriously the extent of the danger. 

Taking torps that can hit DDs and CAs would make them beyond weak and near helpless against those ships.

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Anyway, back on topic... Minotaur doesn't need HE rounds. They have improved AP penetration mechanic, due to the lack of HE rounds.

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36 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

Anyway, back on topic... Minotaur doesn't need HE rounds. They have improved AP penetration mechanic, due to the lack of HE rounds.

Umm....I'm pretty sure the intended topic of this thread was actually the Harugumo.  The OP just used the Minnow as hyperbole to point out the Harugumo's combination of smoke, 32mm HE pen and high DPM.  

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16 hours ago, Xanthro said:

The new IJN DDs already get eaten like a snack by others DDs and Cruisers. 

People forget IJN turret rotation is horrible, and they can't take RPF as there are not enough points. Get in close with another DD and angle, and the new IJN boats are close to helpless.

Because of this, they can't cap or knife fight. Sure, they can dish out damage to ships that cannot hide, like BBs, but that is seriously the extent of the danger. 

Taking torps that can hit DDs and CAs would make them beyond weak and near helpless against those ships.

Haragumo is only challenged by soviet DDs..and only because of their heal. All others are at a significant disadvantage vs it.

Haragumo and Kitakaze, just like Akizuki, are the same 'flavor' as soviet DDs.. they're essentially mini cruisers.

Most soviet and now IJN gunboat damage on bbs and cruisers is done from long range not from knife fights.. and both suffer from their turn rate in close range vs other DDs.

Soviets have heal and absurd fantasy acceleration rate, cruiser like armor and soviet bias fire-chance bonus plus a heal. IJN gunboat line has better stealth and better torpedoes but no armor and no heal.

Hence why I say that it should lose the shima torps and get DW torps. Haragumo should not be given torpedo advantage vs cruisers and dds.

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7 hours ago, yashma said:

Umm....I'm pretty sure the intended topic of this thread was actually the Harugumo.  The OP just used the Minnow as hyperbole to point out the Harugumo's combination of smoke, 32mm HE pen and high DPM.  

^this

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