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Stalingrad: Hot or Not?  

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  1. 1. Is the Stalingrad truly OP, or is it strong in skilled hands? I want to take a survey to see what the forums think! Poll closes in a week.

    • WAY TOO OVERPOWERED!! Nerf now.
      43
    • Strong in the hands of a capable player, but not brokenly overpowered.
      89

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  • Poll closed on 09/05/2018 at 01:01 PM

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Keep it civil, I want to see what the public thinks of this new Balans Bote. Remember, we're all entitled to our opinions. But if you have one, back it up with proof. Thanks guys!

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Its situational, punishes you if you make a mistake either driving it or facing it.

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I've played against a few as well as next to a few this season on NA and I really don't think its OP, its basically a Moskva (yes I know how it differs from one though). It's a Battle Cruiser at heart and if WOWS actually had a Battle Cruiser class I think it would fit in perfectly at TX.

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From NoZoupforyou video about tier 9 and 10 premiums:

She is a tier 10 battleship with Graf Spee dispersion and 2.46 sigma taking up a cruiser slot....

Not OP in any way....

If you thought a bow tanking Moskva in clan wars was a pain, wait until you face Stalingrad in ranked....

 

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Just now, dEsTurbed1 said:

From NoZoupforyou video about tier 9 and 10 premiums:

She is a tier 10 battleship with Graf Spee dispersion and 2.46 sigma taking up a cruiser slot....

Not OP in any way....

If you thought a bow tanking Moskva in clan wars was a pain, wait until you face Stalingrad in ranked....

 

Moskva is tankier and Stalingrad if you look at the armor model. Again, while it may seem OP when you see someone who is very good using it, they would be beating you in tech tree ships too.

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1 minute ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Moskva is tankier and Stalingrad if you look at the armor model. Again, while it may seem OP when you see someone who is very good using it, they would be beating you in tech tree ships too.

It isn't that the ship is stupid OP...

It is a battleship in a cruiser slot...

Treat her that way and she burns nicely...

And her sides are citadel city...

The really big problem, besides taking a cruiser slot, is that anyone who has her is not a 30% potato. They will know how to use her.

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The ship isn't OP, but the players driving it are (often)./ Skilled and knowledgeable players will be able to sexploit (neologism of Stalingrad and Exploit, for those raising an eyebrow) Stalingrad's ludicrously good cruiser sigma and bb guns, while employing careful tactical positioning next to islands/rocks. Only the forthcoming return of CVs to clan battles, will possibly balance these OP Stalingrad owners.

(I played next to one, in ranked the other day. It sat next to my Republique most of the battle, had limited influence on the sway of play. I wondered how different it is to any another fast big lightly armoured battlecruising bote, in all but sigma.  I suspect the biggest advantage of Stalingrad is its in game designation as a cruiser, rather than as a battleship- which is why we will see more than one being driven in some clan battle teams. This is sneaky, by WG, because the designation "cruiser" will make it OP in specific gameplay modes.)

Quote

 

Strong in the hands of a capable player, but not brokenly overpowered.


 

Only capable players will own one, for a long time. This will be a problem, for some.

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1 hour ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Its situational, punishes you if you make a mistake either driving it or facing it.

I agree. It’s fine as long as you don’t give it your bow sides or stern. I really really really hope all the up coming Russian battleships, oops, I meant elite players only cruisers are like this. 

Huh? What fingers? Those? No they aren’t crossed...

Edited by thebigblue

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1 hour ago, ViirtualSenpai said:

Keep it civil, I want to see what the public thinks of this new Balans Bote. Remember, we're all entitled to our opinions. But if you have one, back it up with proof. Thanks guys!

The problem w/your poll choices (besides the obvious lack of "Bacon") is:

"Strong in the hands of a capable player, but not brokenly overpowered"...only capable players have them presently so it seems like:

"WAY TOO OVERPOWERED!! Nerf now".

Just another ship...at least for the time being if you see 1 you have a pretty good idea that the person in it is probably pretty capable...whereas if he/she was just in a Moskva (or any other ship) you'd have no warning of just how capable he/she really is until you were on your way back to port.

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17 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

The problem w/your poll choices (besides the obvious lack of "Bacon")

 

1 minute ago, ReddNekk said:

The poll is invalid! There's no Bacon option! :Smile_facepalm:

Guys, I love bacon as much as the next non-vegan, but i'm trying to get some legit stats from the community :)

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2 minutes ago, ViirtualSenpai said:

i'm trying to get some legit stats from the community :)

sure:Smile_glasses:

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4 minutes ago, ViirtualSenpai said:

 

Guys, I love bacon as much as the next non-vegan, but i'm trying to get some legit stats from the community :)

You commented on my bacon but didn't address the flaw in your poll I brought up...only people that have ranked out every season has access to this ship...therefore option 2 is impossible to pick as nobody has run into 1 that hasn't been helmed by a "capable player" to compare it to.

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 I sunk a low HP enemy once while driving the Stalingrad. Absolutely broken stuff.

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21 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

You commented on my bacon but didn't address the flaw in your poll I brought up...only people that have ranked out every season has access to this ship...therefore option 2 is impossible to pick as nobody has run into 1 that hasn't been helmed by a "capable player" to compare it to.

While I see what you're saying I have this question to ask: so are we comparing someone who ranks out in 500+ games with a 49% WR to someone who does so in 120-140 games with a 55%+ WR and saying that both are capable? I don't believe that for one second. With Stalingrad, we will see players across the spectrum of skill, albeit it may be a bit more limited due to availability and the means of getting the boat. Some people who have the boat will be skilled, but others will not be. The spectrum will not be as wide due to those limitations so those on the lower end of the spectrum will still be sort of capable, but not as capable as the average or above average who have obtained the ship.

I'm also just going to leave the thread to see how it pans out. I really want to see what the community thinks of it.

For science. Warship science.

EDIT: I'm not going to debate this, i'm tired and just want to see what everyone thinks.

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Listen up and listen well: ANY ship is OP in the hands of a unicum! NO ship is OP in the hands of a POTATO!

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How could this ship not be considered overpowered?

 It's a BB taking up a cruiser slot. Except it has better dispersion than any BB in the game. It has better autobounce angles than all but a few cruisers. Its got better shell velocity than any BB. Its reload is faster. It's faster than every BB and only barely beaten by a few cruisers. It's as fast as some DDs in t8-10. And it has the longest ranged radar.

 The only thing this thing is missing is Yammies overmatch ability and Conqs HE/citadel/heal.

 As near as I can tell the only reason its beatable in randoms and ranked is because if the nature of the teams.

 In CB, given that the players who have it are mostly in elite clans, it's likely to break the Meta.

 

Edited by Ares1967
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1 hour ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

From NoZoupforyou video about tier 9 and 10 premiums:

She is a tier 10 battleship with Graf Spee dispersion and 2.46 sigma taking up a cruiser slot....

Not OP in any way....

If you thought a bow tanking Moskva in clan wars was a pain, wait until you face Stalingrad in ranked....

Nobody bow tanks with Moskva anymore because it still gets out dpmed by DM. Stalingrad has all the same armor weaknesses as Moskva in this role. Also, it can't overmatch DM (or any T10 cruiser except Minotaur, which people aren't bow tanking with btw).

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11 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Listen up and listen well: ANY ship is OP in the hands of a unicum! NO ship is OP in the hands of a POTATO!

My Graf Zeppy and my Payveryveryfast beg to disagree.

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14 minutes ago, ViirtualSenpai said:

While I see what you're saying I have this question to ask: so are we comparing someone who ranks out in 500+ games with a 49% WR to someone who does so in 120-140 games with a 55%+ WR and saying that both are capable? I don't believe that for one second. With Stalingrad, we will see players across the spectrum of skill, albeit it may be a bit more limited due to availability and the means of getting the boat. Some people who have the boat will be skilled, but others will not be. The spectrum will not be as wide due to those limitations so those on the lower end of the spectrum will still be sort of capable, but not as capable as the average or above average who have obtained the ship.

That's kinda absurd to think the 500 game 49% win rate was able to do that 9 seasons in a row to obtain the steel for the Stalingrad & are still only 49% win rate players...that much experience is gonna make you a good player so it would be very safe to say that anybody that has obtained the Stalingrad is gonna be quite capable w/it period unless they got the ultimate RNG & got a bunch of steel in back to back super containers...& no...none of those players were in good enough clans to make up the difference in the recent Clan Wars either.

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1 hour ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

If you thought a bow tanking Moskva in clan wars was a pain, wait until you face Stalingrad in ranked....

Except that the bow tanking Moskva will have a much better HE performance, which matters significantly when you face targets where your AP has little to no impact (you know, skilled opponents who can angle).

Stalingrad HE dpm with reload module:

(60 / 17.6) x 9 x 4,500 = ~138k dpm

Now Moskva, also reload module:

(60 / 9.5) x 9 x 3,100 = ~176k dpm

The caliber difference only matters when you fire at a few select targets (Großer Kurfürst, Montana to an extend, Yamato to an insignificant degree, Khabarovsk, Stalingrad and Moskva), and is largely irrelevant.

 

How does it look with fires? If we ignore the existance of Demolition Expert, which a Moskva can easily run while Stalingrad does not (BoS is absolutely necessary because of the 45s fire duration), then you might stand a chance. But too bad that those skills exist, and benefit Moskva enough to be better. I will give Stalingrad a full fire setting build, it‘s unrealistic but hey it only proves my point even more.

Moskva, with reload, signals and DE: 11.9 fires/minute

Stalingrad, with reload, flags and DE (I am generous here, usually DE is unlikely to be mounted): 11.4 fires/minute

 

 

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19 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Except that the bow tanking Moskva will have a much better HE performance, which matters significantly when you face targets where your AP has little to no impact (you know, skilled opponents who can angle).

Stalingrad HE dpm with reload module:

(60 / 17.6) x 9 x 4,500 = ~138k dpm

Now Moskva, also reload module:

(60 / 9.5) x 9 x 3,100 = ~176k dpm

The caliber difference only matters when you fire at a few select targets (Großer Kurfürst, Montana to an extend, Yamato to an insignificant degree, Khabarovsk, Stalingrad and Moskva), and is largely irrelevant.

 

How does it look with fires? If we ignore the existance of Demolition Expert, which a Moskva can easily run while Stalingrad does not (BoS is absolutely necessary because of the 45s fire duration), then you might stand a chance. But too bad that those skills exist, and benefit Moskva enough to be better. I will give Stalingrad a full fire setting build, it‘s unrealistic but hey it only proves my point even more.

Moskva, with reload, signals and DE: 11.9 fires/minute

Stalingrad, with reload, flags and DE (I am generous here, usually DE is unlikely to be mounted): 11.4 fires/minute

 

 

U know u can't use stats to get potatoes to understand that the stalingrad is not OP right?
Last i remember they still think the Black is OP as well as Flint even though Fletcher and Atlanta have better/more reliable setups. 

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35 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

How could this ship not be considered overpowered?

 It's a BB taking up a cruiser slot. Except it has better dispersion than any BB in the game. It has better autobounce angles than all but a few cruisers. Its got better shell velocity than any BB. Its reload is faster. It's faster than every BB and only barely beaten by a few cruisers. It's as fast as some DDs in t8-10. And it has the longest ranged radar.

 The only thing this thing is missing is Yammies overmatch ability and Conqs HE/citadel/heal.

 As near as I can tell the only reason its beatable in randoms and ranked is because if the nature of the teams.

Excellent work, you managed to only count the Pros, while ignoring the weaknesses of her.

Let me count up a few of the bunch, in case you missed them:

Stalingrad is highly vulnerable against aircraft. She eats AP bomb citadels like the Moskva, except that she it larger and less maneuverable. Her often complained about Defensive Fire is in fact a nerfed version of this consumable. Stalingrad has more AA mounts than the Moskva (I will compare these two a lot, because they are very similar), but thanks to the lower dps boost Stalingrad‘s damage output is lower under DFAA. On top of that, Stalingrad‘s DFAA cooldown is significantly longer with 160 seconds, so follow up strikes will hurt, a lot. The 1 minute duration may sound nice, but then again if duration was so amazing the DFAA duration module would be a lot more popular.

Stalingrad is vulnerable against Torpedoes. Not only is her Torpedo Damage Reduction lower than on the Moskva, she lacks Hydro and turns worse than a train. No, that‘s not an exaggeration. Longest Rudder shift of any T10 Cruiser and 1130m turning circle.

Stalingrad‘s HE performance does not live up to the Hype. A few comments up I made the math where I compared Moskva‘s and Stalingrad‘s HE shells. Give it a read.

She is massive, and can not dodge any incoming fire. This is especially fun when you face a Conqueror which just spams HE at you. Kiss your AA goodbye, and up to 15k hp per salvo. Nothing you can do about that.

Stalingrad is the most vulnerable against HE compared to any other Cruiser. 45s fire duration, and easy to hit. Notice how this fits well with the point above.

Her build does not leave much room, I could use a 25 point captain and still feel like I need more. Thanks to the fire story, BoS and FP are kind of a must. The Torpedo threat makes Vigilance a solid pick, but SI for an extra heal is also needed. CE is CE, and a must have. I am already over the point limit, and still have no AFT to have some defense against planes. And thanks to the dispersion, you need Aiming Systems Mod 1. So also no AA range boost there, unlike the one I have on my Moskva. Yay, stock AA!

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Why are people keep saying that Stalingrad is a BB? She has worse armor than even Kongo. Has just 305mm guns, Henry 240mm, Moskva 220mm...

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26 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Excellent work, you managed to only count the Pros, while ignoring the weaknesses of her.

Let me count up a few of the bunch, in case you missed them:

Stalingrad is highly vulnerable against aircraft. She eats AP bomb citadels like the Moskva, except that she it larger and less maneuverable. Her often complained about Defensive Fire is in fact a nerfed version of this consumable. Stalingrad has more AA mounts than the Moskva (I will compare these two a lot, because they are very similar), but thanks to the lower dps boost Stalingrad‘s damage output is lower under DFAA. On top of that, Stalingrad‘s DFAA cooldown is significantly longer with 160 seconds, so follow up strikes will hurt, a lot. The 1 minute duration may sound nice, but then again if duration was so amazing the DFAA duration module would be a lot more popular.

Stalingrad is vulnerable against Torpedoes. Not only is her Torpedo Damage Reduction lower than on the Moskva, she lacks Hydro and turns worse than a train. No, that‘s not an exaggeration. Longest Rudder shift of any T10 Cruiser and 1130m turning circle.

Stalingrad‘s HE performance does not live up to the Hype. A few comments up I made the math where I compared Moskva‘s and Stalingrad‘s HE shells. Give it a read.

She is massive, and can not dodge any incoming fire. This is especially fun when you face a Conqueror which just spams HE at you. Kiss your AA goodbye, and up to 15k hp per salvo. Nothing you can do about that.

Stalingrad is the most vulnerable against HE compared to any other Cruiser. 45s fire duration, and easy to hit. Notice how this fits well with the point above.

Her build does not leave much room, I could use a 25 point captain and still feel like I need more. Thanks to the fire story, BoS and FP are kind of a must. The Torpedo threat makes Vigilance a solid pick, but SI for an extra heal is also needed. CE is CE, and a must have. I am already over the point limit, and still have no AFT to have some defense against planes. And thanks to the dispersion, you need Aiming Systems Mod 1. So also no AA range boost there, unlike the one I have on my Moskva. Yay, stock AA!

Excellent. You just described every BB in the game. 

Weak AA and vulnerable to AP bombs at a tier where CVs are the exception rather than the norm. Except she does get DFAA, an ability only the Hood has as a BB.

 Vulnerable to Torps.. just like every other BB.

 Cant dodge incoming fire... BB.

45 sec fire duration. Better than every other BB.

 Without ASM1 it still has better dispersion than any other BB.

 Moskva outperforms her with HE. So what, a T1 outperforms Mino with HE.

 The ship is a battleship in a cruiser slot.. period. Except it's got a long list of abilities no other BB in the game has. I never claimed it's perfect or doesnt have weaknesses. It may not be the strongest BB but it's far stronger than a cruiser. 

 Oh but any player whos ranked out 9 times can get her. And? Let me know what the percentage is of 49%ers whove ranked out 9 times is. Betting it's an infintesimal number.

 If Stalingrad is balanced then Musashi is underpowered and needs a major buff. I'll settle for turret traverse and rudder shift improvements TY. Unlike some I'm not freaking over the horrible AA of a T9 BB.

 

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