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Lochnivar

Why Tier X Ranked Battle Is So Bad

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Ok, let me preface this by saying that I'm just as guilty on this as anyone else, so I'm not trying to denigrate anybody.

The question is, why is it so bad to have only tier 10 ships in ranked from 15 up?  The answer is somewhat counter-intuitive.

Logically, keeping ranked at tier 10 ships should filter out less experienced players by the expedient of said players not having tier 10 ships in port.  Logically, that should mean a better quality of play at this level.

Unfortunately, it's not and I think the reason is that it's causing the opposite of what it's intended to do.

Consider this.  A newish player sees ranked and he/she wants to be a part of it.  Unfortunately, their highest ship is a tier 7, which means they are out.  However, if you're desperate enough, you can convert ship xp to free xp and open up a tier 10.  I know I did this by skipping the Fletcher and grabbing the Gearing for clan wars.  I missed the entire training grind that came with working through the tier 9 dynamics.  In short, I suck with my Gearing now and I pretty much get owned at Ranked battles.  That's my fault since I regularly play tier 5-7 as my preferred tier.

So, what happens is that we actually get players that are even less experienced at playing tier 10 battles.  Randoms at 10 is tough, but ranked is a whole 'nother beast.  If you're not familiar with the dynamics there, you're going to get eaten quite easily.

We need ranked back down to, at least tier 8.  It's not so grindy and it's on a much closer level to play for a newish player who still wants to enter the competitive sphere.  I suck at ranked this season, and it's my own fault.  I'm just not ready for tier 10 battles, especially ranked.

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As I understand it, WG has player retention trouble. Some new players are turned off by lack of tutorials (have to google that info), the constant uptiering, and whatnot. Then there's the fact wallet warriors want to skip a lot of grinding, get to next ship ASAP.

What WG is doing is encouraging people that want to go past 15 in Ranked is buy free XP (via dubloons) to get to a T10.

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Why is the T7 guy who FXPs to T10 any worse off than the T7 guy who FXPs to T8? He hasn't played either set of ships, doesn't know the tactics in either case, and is basically going to get destroyed. If anything, T10 has fewer ships to learn (no premiums), and the cruisers can at least heal back some of their HP after a mistake.

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You can't protect people from themselves.

Stupid is stupid.

People KNOW it takes time to learn something but they still think they can jump into the fray unprepared.  Why?

It is certainly not WG's position to police each and every player.  Folks have to police themselves.

You can't protect people from themselves.

 

Sab

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I've found tier X ranked to be exceedingly competitive this season. While there are a few ships that make huge mistakes, for the most part, people are playing so well I keep running out of compliments.

Seriously, anyone can play a Tier X DD in ranked, even the inexperienced, just don't try and win the match alone.

Stay 10K outside they Radar ships and keep stuff spotted and launch torps, drop smoke on the back line for Cruisers, and you'll win more often than you lose.

Worchesters are your biggest threat, because if you can see them, they can radar you.

The biggest mistake players make in ranked is getting to aggressive early and getting out of position and killed. Be ready to flee when you get hit by radar, and remember, it's better to keep your ship in the match than get a cap. We all love DDs that cap, but staying alive is key.

Hope to see you in ranked. You want to play better, which means you'll get better!!

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30 minutes ago, Lochnivar said:

Ok, let me preface this by saying that I'm just as guilty on this as anyone else, so I'm not trying to denigrate anybody.

The question is, why is it so bad to have only tier 10 ships in ranked from 15 up?  The answer is somewhat counter-intuitive.

Logically, keeping ranked at tier 10 ships should filter out less experienced players by the expedient of said players not having tier 10 ships in port.  Logically, that should mean a better quality of play at this level.

Unfortunately, it's not and I think the reason is that it's causing the opposite of what it's intended to do.

Consider this.  A newish player sees ranked and he/she wants to be a part of it.  Unfortunately, their highest ship is a tier 7, which means they are out.  However, if you're desperate enough, you can convert ship xp to free xp and open up a tier 10.  I know I did this by skipping the Fletcher and grabbing the Gearing for clan wars.  I missed the entire training grind that came with working through the tier 9 dynamics.  In short, I suck with my Gearing now and I pretty much get owned at Ranked battles.  That's my fault since I regularly play tier 5-7 as my preferred tier.

So, what happens is that we actually get players that are even less experienced at playing tier 10 battles.  Randoms at 10 is tough, but ranked is a whole 'nother beast.  If you're not familiar with the dynamics there, you're going to get eaten quite easily.

We need ranked back down to, at least tier 8.  It's not so grindy and it's on a much closer level to play for a newish player who still wants to enter the competitive sphere.  I suck at ranked this season, and it's my own fault.  I'm just not ready for tier 10 battles, especially ranked.

Think about it this way.... You are going against other players right now in their tier Xs who have as little to no experience in them as you do.

But you struggle against them.....

If it were tier VIII you would be going against players with prolly tons of experience at tier VIII.

So you drop the Tier but you up the experience level across the board and basically you will be in the same position you are at now.

You just made it easier for a entire different level of players to own you in easier ships to play.

 

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND

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Oh, I'm not fishing  here.  Just want people to know that I'm not bashing because I'm part of the problem myself.  This is more to get a conversation going.

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1 minute ago, Lochnivar said:

Oh, I'm not fishing  here.  Just want people to know that I'm not bashing because I'm part of the problem myself.  This is more to get a conversation going.

Just use it as opportunity to gain some experience.... Win or loose you will end the season feeling a little better about yourself and im gonna bet pick up some tricks and tactics that will help you at any Tier

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23 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Why is the T7 guy who FXPs to T10 any worse off than the T7 guy who FXPs to T8? He hasn't played either set of ships, doesn't know the tactics in either case, and is basically going to get destroyed. If anything, T10 has fewer ships to learn (no premiums), and the cruisers can at least heal back some of their HP after a mistake.

Well, I'd say that there's a greater difference between T7 and T10 than there is between T7 and T8.  Seems to me that if you can play tier 7's decently, the jump to tier 8's isn't all that great.  The biggest problem isn't a difference between the new tier and tier 7.  It's that if you FXP to a new tier's ship, you're probably unfamiliar with that ship in particular and may not really know how to play it.  Also, if you've FXP'd to a new tier ship, usually other than tier 10), unless you also FXP'd the researchable upgrades, you're looking at a less than fully upgraded ship, which can also be a negative.   Note that a handful of tier 10's do still have some researchable items.  Some represent a serious upgrade, while others are just an option.  Like the Z-52's torps vs the GK's main guns or the Conqueror's main gun upgrades.

 

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12 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

I've found tier X ranked to be exceedingly competitive this season. While there are a few ships that make huge mistakes, for the most part, people are playing so well I keep running out of compliments.

Seriously, anyone can play a Tier X DD in ranked, even the inexperienced, just don't try and win the match alone.

Stay 10K outside they Radar ships and keep stuff spotted and launch torps, drop smoke on the back line for Cruisers, and you'll win more often than you lose.

Worcesters are your biggest threat, because if you can see them, they can radar you.

The biggest mistake players make in ranked is getting to aggressive early and getting out of position and killed. Be ready to flee when you get hit by radar, and remember, it's better to keep your ship in the match than get a cap. We all love DDs that cap, but staying alive is key.

Hope to see you in ranked. You want to play better, which means you'll get better!!

Radar Minotaurs present the same threat as Worcesters, since they also have a concealment range that's less than their radar range.

Also note that Moskvas have a radar range in the high 11km (11.7 km, IRC) range, so if you really want to be safe from radar, it's best to stay 12+ km from where you're expecting to see radar.

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40 minutes ago, Lochnivar said:

However, if you're desperate enough, you can convert ship xp to free xp and open up a tier 10. 

That's the point. WG got paid.

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32 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Why is the T7 guy who FXPs to T10 any worse off than the T7 guy who FXPs to T8?

Because the only thing the T8 player has experienced (besides actually driving the T8 ships) that the T7 player hasn't is fighting against T10 ships in Randoms.  In a single tier-locked competitive mode, this is not an issue.  And learning how to play a single ship is not that steep a learning curve compared to figuring out the meta at that level.

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Don’t blame the ranked tier.  I ranked out with tier 6 ships, and I had more than plenty of experience with the game before I tried.  It was one hell of a grind.  If you think for one minute that lower tier will make it easier for you to rank out, think again.

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12 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

Don’t blame the ranked tier.  I ranked out with tier 6 ships, and I had more than plenty of experience with the game before I tried.  It was one hell of a grind.  If you think for one minute that lower tier will make it easier for you to rank out, think again.

I've played in every Ranked, as you probably have.  The dynamic of this season, and the last, has been very different from the previous ones.  I could care less about the ranking out.  I know how crap I am at the game and the highest I've gotten is 8.  I don't expect to get any better.  There are just that many good players.

This is about WG making a change that, in the long one, wasn't a good one.  It shut out a lot of players and didn't have the effect that they were working towards.

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Ranked X hands down the least amount of fun in my opinion.  Burn out of the rank for sure.    The big issue is that players who are ok or new to the tier will get wrecked and everyone is losing a star for sure   I have had maybe 3 games that were close.   Most games are easily decided early and everyone just ends up fighting to keep the star.    The salt doesn't seem to bad this season so far.  

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11 minutes ago, Lochnivar said:

This is about WG making a change that, in the long one, wasn't a good one.  It shut out a lot of players and didn't have the effect that they were working towards.

I do agree that having variety with tiers in ranked was a positive experience.  First T10 ranked was an interesting proposition, but second T10 is sort of setting a trend I don't enjoy.  Having said that, WG as a company probably generated more profit with the first T10 ranked when compared to other seasons, and this was most likely a business decision.

 

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1 hour ago, Fishrokk said:

And learning how to play a single ship is not that steep a learning curve compared to figuring out the meta at that level.

I would argue that the Ranked Battles meta is different from the Random Battles meta at any tier, due to the 7v7 format, mode-specific maps and deployments, lack of tier spread, and the (relatively) selective group that actually bothers to play Ranked more than a few games each season.

 

1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Seems to me that if you can play tier 7's decently, the jump to tier 8's isn't all that great.

Tell that to North Carolina, Akizuki, Chapayev, etc. Many lines have huge shifts at T8.

1 hour ago, Crucis said:

It's that if you FXP to a new tier's ship, you're probably unfamiliar with that ship in particular and may not really know how to play it.

That argues against T8 being better, since all T8s have stock versions, while most T10s do not.

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I'd say if your overall win rate in ranked is as good or better than your solo WR in randoms, you'll be fine at any tier, with some caveats:

The ship you want to play is appropriate for ranked. Some aren't.

You understand the ship you're in and can operate it above the floor.

My overall solo WR in DDs is 54%. In Ranked, it's 58%. In T10 DDs (this season), it's 61%. If these numbers were backwards - lower in previous ranked seasons than randoms - I'd be very reluctant to jump up to a new tier for Ranked.

 

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12 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

I would argue that the Ranked Battles meta is different from the Random Battles meta at any tier, due to the 7v7 format, mode-specific maps and deployments, lack of tier spread, and the (relatively) selective group that actually bothers to play Ranked more than a few games each season.

That's a fair argument.  Only other mode to learn that meta in (or something close to it) is Clan Battles, which has always been strictly T10 limited, especially since Ranked hasn't been below T8 since ... what?  season before last?

Although, to be fair, I've played Ranked before, and haven't gotten above T8 in the tech tree to date.  But I would give long odds that I'm in the vast minority in that regard.  (And the fact that I have played it doesn't necessarily mean I learned the meta... but I could have...)

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I feel like even if newer players go into ranked and are bad, if they stick with it its going to make them better players. Ranked as well as clan battles can help teach you positioning well I feel like. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Lochnivar said:

Logically, keeping ranked at tier 10 ships should filter out less experienced players by the expedient of said players not having tier 10 ships in port.  Logically, that should mean a better quality of play at this level.

And that is where you are wrong.  Short of new players with a couple hundred battles under their belt, some of the absolute worst players I have ever seen play T10 religiously.

Have you seen a player with 10k battles, 37% WR, 300 PR, with 1000 games in a Yammy averaging 17k damage a game...........I have.

Right now a lot of players like that are playing ranked.  I generally loathe T9/10 games due to some of the  player caliber, but have we revisited some high tier grinds and it has been quite enjoyable since ranked started.  Good teamwork, people, for the most part, actually knowing how to play high tier.

Sorry for those slogging it out in Ranked, but the sewer definitely emptied from randoms to ranked, your pain is my gain :Smile_hiding:

Edited by Aeries1

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