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dmckay

Smoke! Differing opinions.

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I just got DD T-61. I have little experience in DDs. I don't really know JACK BLANK about the best or sane use of smoke.  Issue!  I have watched some vids on youtube regarding smoke past 2 days and gee whiz you watch 3 and you get 3 differing views about how best to use smoke. If you know about smoke give me your tips for how BEST to use it playing DDs. If anyone responds I will weigh your advice.  I do need advice on rational and intelligent use of smoke.  Playing my cruisers I have seen players that, IMO, don't know what the hell they are doing in a DD when smoking but I am no expert on this at all.  Help!  Tks

Edited by dmckay

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T-61 uses it mostly for disengaging but can also use it offensively when combined with hydro for counter-dd play.

Edited by SmokeHenge
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1 minute ago, SmokeHenge said:

T-61 used it mostly for disengaging but can also use it offensively when combined with hydro for counter-dd play.

You mean use hydo when red DD is on cap in smoke and spot him and torp his azz? 

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Pretty much, but shooting works better at that point. Hydro will likely start him moving so you’re probably better off torping, holding for a bit, then smoke, hydro, shoot.

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One thing you don't want to do is sit in smoke and lose your ability to spot. Smoke has become a torp magnet. I lay smoke to get red DD and cruisers to commit torps to the cloud and waste time on nothing and to mask my teams advance. I then leave the smoke so I can spot red targets for my team. T-61 is stealthy enough to do this without herself being seen.

Nothing chaps my azz more than a DD that enters a cap and lays smoke to hide friendlies but SITS in the smoke. Not only are friendlies hidden, so are red. And the noob ends up eating a torp.

 

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6 minutes ago, Khafni said:

One thing you don't want to do is sit in smoke and lose your ability to spot. Smoke has become a torp magnet. I lay smoke to get red DD and cruisers to commit torps to the cloud and waste time on nothing and to mask my teams advance. I then leave the smoke so I can spot red targets for my team. T-61 is stealthy enough to do this without herself being seen.

Nothing chaps my azz more than a DD that enters a cap and lays smoke to hide friendlies but SITS in the smoke. Not only are friendlies hidden, so are red. And the noob ends up eating a torp.

 

U smoke then leave it and reds are shooting at nothing but a cloud? Using your ship as bait? Do NOT sit in smoke!  Got it. Tks

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The biggest mistake most players make is sitting in the smoke they put down.  That is only viable if you know for 100% certainty that there isn't a ship that can reach you with torps.  Use smoke as protection for escape, or for protection of your friendly ships.  Your best attribute is the ability to spot for your team, so most of the time you won't want to stay in the smoke and be blind.  If you know you are protected, and the enemy is spotted, feel free to sit in your smoke and hammer away.

Don't smoke up within range of a radar cruiser.  It is just a waste of smoke.  Early on, if you have an escape route planned (you should always have one), you can bait a radar cruiser to use radar by laying smoke and leaving out the back and getting behind an island.  That radar will be one less he will have later on when it really matters.  If you can get him to use his radar without wasting smoke, even better.  

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Smoke can be used to break line of sight when you're being targeted.  Always a good choice when the alternative is getting shells rained down on you by several ships.

Smoke can be used to sit in to fire your guns undetected.  This is a good option but you have to consider: Is someone else spotting targets for me?  Is there an enemy radar ship that's going to find me?  Am I going to invite a wave of torpedoes or a charging cruiser with hydro?  You have to determine if it'll be the best use of your limited smoke or not.  It can be a chance for you to farm serious damage or it can be a complete waste.

The best use of smoke would be allowing a cruiser cover from which to fire from.  Cruiser's potential damage is much higher so your team will get much more benefit from having a cruiser safely firing from smoke than a destroyer.  However for this to be effective you have to actually be able to coordinate with the cruiser, and the cruiser has to be skilled enough to make use of it.  For this reason it generally works best if you're playing clan battles or in a division.

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German DDs with Hydro can use smoke offensively/defensively in trying to take a contested cap.  You can pop your smoke, pop hydro, and be relatively safe as long as you aren't full broadside and no radar around.  Other DDs should try to cap without smoke so they can continue spotting, though if contesting a cap you need to pop smoke, then try to be stern or bow to the other DD so you can dodge their torps.

If you don't have to worry about torps, and are using smoke to shoot at a BB or CA and staying concealed, don't forget to move around in that smoke.  Lots of players have gotten good at shooting unspotted DDs in smoke based on where the shells are coming from.

But most of the time you want to use smoke to make your escape.  Don't bother using it though if you get detected by radar, as you will probably only help conceal the red team.

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1 minute ago, Murcc said:

The biggest mistake most players make is sitting in the smoke they put down.  That is only viable if you know for 100% certainty that there isn't a ship that can reach you with torps.  Use smoke as protection for escape, or for protection of your friendly ships.  Your best attribute is the ability to spot for your team, so most of the time you won't want to stay in the smoke and be blind.  If you know you are protected, and the enemy is spotted, feel free to sit in your smoke and hammer away.

Don't smoke up within range of a radar cruiser.  It is just a waste of smoke.  Early on, if you have an escape route planned (you should always have one), you can bait a radar cruiser to use radar by laying smoke and leaving out the back and getting behind an island.  That radar will be one less he will have later on when it really matters.  If you can get him to use his radar without wasting smoke, even better.  

Don't sit in smoke unless you are safe.....ok. Hell I see DDs just sit in their smoke all the time. Tells me exactly where they are. Seems to me smoke is poorly used/understood by many DD players....but I am new at this DD thing. Tks

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I tend to shoot from smoke in my DDs, primarily US but even RU below T9...but given the torp reload in the T61, I use it mostly to disengage if spotted.  With this DD I want to be moving around and spam torps as frequently as possible.  I don't think it has very long duration anyway so it isn't as useful to sit in it and spam HE as it would be with US DD.  Also the pop smoke and hydro next to smoked-up enemy DD as others have mentioned is a useful tactic when the situation presents itself.

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Smoke is actually pretty hard to use, remember, it blocks line of sight for your side as well.

Also, any smoke will attract torpedoes, so if you are in torpedo range, expect torpedoes to come to that smoke. You do not want to be in the smoke when the torpedoes arrive. Fight behind smoke also keeps ships from seeing you, but planes still can.

Think of smoke as mobile islands, if you get decent at using islands as cover, then use your smoke like an island you place where you want.

Smoke is also great at breaking contact, just remember radar renders smoke useless. If you are fleeing and spotted, drop smoke and use it to break line of sight.

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My strange smoke story.  Have never done it before and probably never will again.  Playing ranked this morning with the Akizuki in the Sea of Fortune.  We are in mid-game with all of our ships remaining.  I believe the other team had four ships left.  I had already sunk the Benson and the Tirpitz.  I had fired my torps and torp reload booster.  Was sailing through one of our caps.  I saw the other Tirpitz coming toward our cap.  I released smoke and decided to stay in it.  The Tirpitz continued toward my smoke and then turned away from it.  I still had 40+ seconds before I would get a torp reload.  What to do?  Ram him of course.  He had about 17K HP left.  I came out of the smoke straight at him when he was just a couple of km away.  His secondary was blazing away at me but his main guns were pointed the other way.  Rammed him in the port rear quarter.  We both went up.  My team wiped up the rest and we had a victory.  

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2 hours ago, dmckay said:

watch 3 and you get 3 differing views about how best to use smoke.

It really depends on the battle situation (awareness) all three are valid. It so happens that I just finished watching this video and @DestroyerKuroshio Has some points that I never thought of before. He has some tricky little tests that he does and does take some damage to use these tests, which involve the use of his smoke. Amazingly if the Gearing in the @Notser video I watched just before that, had known he might have lived and changed that out come to a win for his team (maybe not).

This is the Notser video. At 13:00 Notser points out the same thing as DestroyKuroshio does and that is that it doesn't much matter what your ship can do if you don't consider what the other ship can do. Basically, Know the ship you are fighting against. It just may change what you do with your smoke.

 

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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My main use of smoke is for any cruisers that are supporting the area that I'm headed to. I will pop smoke a bit off of any

cap I'm headed for, or across a gap between islands that I ten to know the cruisers will begin to be in spotting range when they

get there. And then I spot for those cruisers trying to tease out intel for them, and possibly drawing out any Destroyers that

need killing.

Secondary uses for smoke are if I know I can smoke and won't be radared while enemy ships are lit and paying attention elsewhere

and I can begin being a nuisance by torping and firing without being physically spotted.

Third use is self defense and preservation.

 

And fourth is as a decoy/psyop against the enemy. Sometimes I'll lay smoke when I'm not spotted or just going out of visual detection, to give the

opposing ship or ships something bright and shiny to radar or rush. While I run away and reposition. Or I'll drop it and sometimes get BB's to turn off because they

think torpedoes will be coming out of the smoke. It's a very versatile instrument, with more uses than most people apply.

 

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3 hours ago, dmckay said:

I just got DD T-61. I have little experience in DDs. I don't really know JACK BLANK about the best or sane use of smoke.  Issue!  I have watched some vids on youtube regarding smoke past 2 days and gee whiz you watch 3 and you get 3 differing views about how best to use smoke. If you know about smoke give me your tips for how BEST to use it playing DDs. If anyone responds I will weigh your advice.  I do need advice on rational and intelligent use of smoke.  Playing my cruisers I have seen players that, IMO, don't know what the hell they are doing in a DD when smoking but I am no expert on this at all.  Help!  Tks

Using smoke is very situational and comes with experience. I'd say I use it for the following, in order of decreasing frequency

1) Disengaging from enemy ships, i.e. covering the line of sight between you and the ships that are spotting you. I'd say at first primarily use smoke for this, as you're learning the ropes.

2) Sitting in smoke and pummeling enemy ships with gun fire (and torpedoes, if the enemy is close). Be mindful of your gun bloom and of enemy torpedoes (position yourself with stern to their possible incoming direction), enemy radar, enemy hydro, enemies getting close to you, basically anything that can kill you while you're stationary. Remember, the smoke (and then shooting) announces where you are to the enemy. Good players will be able to hit you with blind fire. 

3) Capping objectives. Dont always roll into cap and immediately smoke up, that's a very silly thing to do that will get you killed often. Use this tactic only if you will be spotted otherwise. Same warnings as in #2 apply

4) Denying vision to the enemy, for example smoking a chokespot if you want to slow the enemy team's advance on a weak flank. This is situational and requires a good understanding of the map and positioning. Don't do this unless you're absolutely sure it will help. 

5) Helping friendlies, either allowing them to disengage or allowing them to sit in smoke and fire. I generally only do this with divmates, since an average pubbie will not use your smoke wisely.

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