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Sorys

Just because you are in a Japanese Destroyer doesnt mean you cant fire your guns

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Hi all

This is more of a PSA to all players out there who forget that japanese destroyers besides the Akizuki and up on that tech tree line have guns. The guns are not great yes but in the right cases can do some serious damage. Just dont forget about them.

Just thought id share the game that sparked this post.

The proof of my point

P.S Shame at the end the enemy Carrier gave up despite being in the lead with points. Simple needed to run to win instead he turned off his aa and did not send any more planes. Dont do this even if you are the last ship alive on your team. You can still win on points

Enjoy the rest of your day

Edited by Sorys
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Similarly, even if you are a Soviet, US, Pan-asia or IJN 100mm dakka monsters, that doesn't mean you should always go full thirsty mode for other lolibotes the moment you spot them. Check who else might shoot at you, and who might be able to shoot your enemies for you! 

Yes, your guns may be quite excellent in dpm, yes you don't have a citadel. But overall, cruisers are the ones doing the dakka, they can put more steel in less time, or do so more effectively over longer ranges. As a destroyer, your most important and powerful weapon is never your guns or your torpedoes, it is your spotting for your team.

Edited by The_first_harbinger
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If the guns are not great, as you point out, why should I blow my stealth (Literally the only thing these ships have that's any good) and paint a target on myself for 20+ seconds by firing them?

 

Unless you are absolutely certain that doing so isn't going to cause your Priority Target indicator to instantly jump to 12, the risk is not worth it.

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Look, it is nice to have an IJN gun boat........  I was so tired of being decimated by just about everyone else in the game.  Now, we have a real chance when you combine IJN DD's into Hunter-killer teams....  A Kagero and a Kity.....  Pick any two and have some fun.

Situational awareness has always been the IJN requirement........it's no different now.

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6 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

If the guns are not great, as you point out, why should I blow my stealth (Literally the only thing these ships have that's any good) and paint a target on myself for 20+ seconds by firing them?

 

Unless you are absolutely certain that doing so isn't going to cause your Priority Target indicator to instantly jump to 12, the risk is not worth it.

The way I use IJN DD guns is often sort of like in those spy / action movies when somebody is infiltrating an area and they reach out from behind some crates and silently grab a security guard and drag them back behind the crates or whatever to silently knock them out? Well IJN DD gun usage is often really similar... And successful DD gun fights are often done at rather close ranges as well.

If you are engaging a weakened ship you can do so when you are both behind an island and the enemy team is unable to provide any support. Or if you get corned on accident and no way you are likely to get out then let loose with your DD guns and make enemy pay precious HP points or maybe even a ship for you going down. Other thing is if you are being radared or something and attempting to flee, but will take a minute, then use the rear guns to set some fires or make enemy dodge a little to slow them down before you hopefully can reach a point to go dark and slip away again. And finally if you are certain no enemy ships are another side of an island I will often fire a salvo of shells at an enemy just before I slip behind an island as I am enroute some where to pick up a few hundred extra damage maybe.know this last one really annoys enemy if it lights a fire and their return fire hits the edge of island lol.

IJN DD guns are certainly not useless, matter of fact in tier VI Ranked Fubuki was one of the most popular DDs being used, and let me tell you the guns were often used quite heavily when the DDs of both teams encountered each other. True scouting, spotting, smoking, and torping were main things used every battle, but so often it came down to those IJN DD guns to settle things, even against Gunboat DDs like Farragut the Fubuki with some skillful usage could beat a even Farragut in gun fights ( I sometimes “cheated” in those Ranked skirmishes by using Torps though lol).

Hopefully this gives some insight into how IJN DD guns are not quite as useless as some might think, granted you will not be winning no full out gnnfights with Battleships or Cruisers usually, but against other DDs often it’s good to just go for it if needed.

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Yugumo and Shimakaze's guns are actually quite dangerous.  It's actually not at all uncommon to be able to outduel a USN DD in a gunfight, especially something like Fletcher or Benson that has to angle out to get all their guns on target.  They reload fast enough, have better trajectory, and hit hard.  You can often land more salvos from range than the USN DD can against you.  Use them, love them.

Edited by RightYouAreKen
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36 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

If the guns are not great, as you point out, why should I blow my stealth (Literally the only thing these ships have that's any good) and paint a target on myself for 20+ seconds by firing them?

 

Unless you are absolutely certain that doing so isn't going to cause your Priority Target indicator to instantly jump to 12, the risk is not worth it.

Because, it's beyond stupid to allow a DD, like me, to literally gun you down to death, and not once do you ever fire. For some bizarre reason, many an IJN DD refuses to fire, when all firing can do is inflict damage to the enemy and there is literally no downside.

If a faster DD is chasing you, you won't be able to regain stealth, so just fire, as all those ships are firing at you anyway.

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32 minutes ago, Sorys said:

but in the right cases

And there in lies the rub. IJN was balanced as torpedo boats, except the newer Akizuki ships, reliant on stealth and amazing torps. The problem is that that is still true, but gave IJN worse torpedoes than ships with similar systems. Hell, the Fletcher has 6 second faster reload on 2x5 tubes that are 1 knot slower and spotted at only 1.4 km out, to the Yugumo's 2x4 spotted 1.7 km out, with the extra salt in the wound being Fletcher has an extra half a kilometer range. Oh, and the ship has better HP, speed, and guns than Yugumo. Gaede has better stealth torps than Fubuki as well as firepower. 

 

Cover of smoke or angled away from a target as most of the firepower is on the stern, with no one else going to shred me, yeah, I'll open fire, also against a weakened target I know I can finish before he does serious damage. But IJN is still balanced as ninja's reliant on stealth, they just need to give us back our daggers. So either Wargaming needs to give IJN the same 1.3/1.4 km spotting on torps that go around 66 knots, give or take a couple knots, at 1.1/1.2 for sub 60 knot torps that we may once again strike well and hard from the shadows as PA DD's now do. Or they need to improve the main batteries on the torpedo boat line with higher RoF and better traverse at which point I'll come out out of the shadows. 

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4 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

Because, it's beyond stupid to allow a DD, like me, to literally gun you down to death, and not once do you ever fire. For some bizarre reason, many an IJN DD refuses to fire, when all firing can do is inflict damage to the enemy and there is literally no downside.

If a faster DD is chasing you, you won't be able to regain stealth, so just fire, as all those ships are firing at you anyway.

I'd rather break contact and let you eat 20+ seconds of focused fire from my team after stupidly exposing themselves.

 

Or torpedo joust, because I'm good at that, and torpedoes don't blow my stealth off for half a minute.

 

The guns aren't useless, but they're highly situational due to the nature of their bad characteristics.

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YouTuber after YouTuber used to constantly rail against the guns on Japanese destroyers, to the point where they made newer players positively allergic to using them. They are now realising what's happened and trying to undo that damage, but they've got a long way to go.

I might add that I feel similar about the guns in the Gallant. With a 2km stealth buffer to launch torpedoes, why should I use my guns unless I absolutely must? They're for setting fires once the enemy has DCP'd to put the flooding out, and to take a spite chunk out of an enemy ship that's cornered me and is about to kill me or is so low on health that the kill ste... er, secure, is almost certain.

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    Its not just Japanese destroyers, but I do understand where you are coming from. I gunned down a Gearing the other day who literally would not fire his guns. He fired torps at me and turned away, apparently thinking I couldn't run him down doing 40+ knots. I have the same feeling about this as I do cruisers who have torpedoes that literally don't fire their guns until they get those torpedoes off, no matter how obvious it is they are trying to torp or how much of their broadside they have to show to do it. Then there are some Tirpitz drivers who can sometimes be seen trying to torp targets 10 … even 20 km away. This game is great.

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Honestly gunboat Akatsuki is one of the more entertaining things to do at tier VII. It’s extremely useful if you manage to kite something like a Mahan into a chase as you can basically just wear him down thanks to the high velocity and rear-heavy battery layout.

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1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

If the guns are not great, as you point out, why should I blow my stealth (Literally the only thing these ships have that's any good) and paint a target on myself for 20+ seconds by firing them?

 

Unless you are absolutely certain that doing so isn't going to cause your Priority Target indicator to instantly jump to 12, the risk is not worth it.

It is impressive that you are able to find positions where the entire enemy team can fire on you.

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I think a better one is:

A CV has Secondary Guns for a reason, make use of them or Your CV goes 28kt, you can't outrun a DD that goes over 35kt another one is You can't run so why don't you fight?

__ryuujou_kantai_collection_drawn_by_ouno_nounai_disintegration__a83579151493224c9c8a103e6b289668.jpg

Edited by Vangm94

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I thought it was part of the WoWs EULA that playing a Japanese destroyer meant you were forbidden from shooting your guns...

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18 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

It is impressive that you are able to find positions where the entire enemy team can fire on you.

I personally have seen that number as high as 10.  And then you run into those rocks you can't see on the mini-map!:fish_panic:

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7 minutes ago, SirMuttonChops said:

I thought it was part of the WoWs EULA that playing a Japanese destroyer meant you were forbidden from shooting your guns...

Asashio makes a great decoy because she can coarse the enemy into shooting her by shooting her guns while facing the opposite direction.

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38 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

It is impressive that you are able to find positions where the entire enemy team can fire on you.

Obviously doesn't happen every time, I presented the worst possible situation to illustrate a point.

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Wow thanks, I didn’t know that. What a useful thread.

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I'm a  HE shell spamming lunachick~

 

 

 

Chung Mu, baby cakes.

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don't worry the Akizuki's, Kitakazi's and Hagawhatever's are more than making up for all the other IJN DDs not using their guns and then some...

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Honestly, i find the IJN guns to be pretty decent ones you get out of the low tiers.  They excel at kiting, which is what you are doing normally anyways.  Too many people just dont know how to use them properly or at all. 

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I once saw a Shirat almost dev strike a Gneis, left him on 96HP... Gneis didn't repair and then proceed to gun down the full HP shirat… Shirat never fired his guns...

 

That story aside, they are a tool. Just like any other tool, they have a time and place for their use.

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2 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

As a destroyer, your most important and powerful weapon is never your guns or your torpedoes, it is your spotting for your team.

Which earns you next to nothing.

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3 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

 As a destroyer, your most important and powerful weapon is never your guns or your torpedoes, it is your spotting for your team.

Give that man a cigar!

 I was in a recent TX standard battle in Fletcher on Shatter. Red team had a div of very well known unicums, one in the TX UK DD Daring, a DM, and a Yammie. There was also a T9 UK, Jutland on the red team.

 I dev struck the Jutland for the first blood. I spent the majority of the match keeping vision on the unicum DM and friends without ever getting in his radar range. Was not spotted and didn't fire my guns till I was in the red cap with only the enemy Shima remaining. Total blowout. 

 Sure my xp was meh. But that sweet taste of victory... :cap_tea:

 One of my favorite DD tactics is to flank and pick a fight just to draw reds away from the objectives. Recent amusing result was an NC, QE, Z39, and Asashio chasing my Sims, effectively giving my friends two caps.

Edited by Ares1967

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