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ph3l0n

Perma flooding and fires but nothing for AP?

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Why are there perma flooding and perma fires, but over pens don't permanently start flooding too?

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4 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

Why are there perma flooding and perma fires, but over pens don't permanently start flooding too?

Ap does citadels, the ability to 1 shot targets and if they dont. They can only heal 10% damage...

They dont cause flooding Because a hole that a torpedo causes is much bigger hole than ap shells.

Not all torp hits cause flooding. What chance does the ap shell cause flooding when the overpen is that much smaller when a giant torp fails to flood? Lol

Edited by Merlox
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3 minutes ago, Merlox said:

Ap does citadels, the ability to 1 shot targets and if they dont. They can only heal 10% damage...

Because a hole that a torpedo causes is much bigger than an ap shell.

But perma anything can drain you from 60k hps to 0 with 1 object hit.  You can't do that with 1 shell hit with a Citadel.  

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1 minute ago, ph3l0n said:

But perma anything can drain you from 60k hps to 0 with 1 object hit.  You can't do that with 1 shell hit with a Citadel.  

I have the ability to press a button and it goes away. And further ways to shorten flood / fire time as well as limit the areas of fire from 4 to 3.

Also flood and fire damage is 100% repairable.

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Getting Citadel hits with AP and the high damage as a result, in particular Battleship AP landing Citadel hits are reasons why you use AP.  These are the high alpha strike attacks that put people from High HP into "Back to Port" HP in a salvo or two.  HE doesn't do that.

 

Citadel hits are a big deal, and a x2 Citadel hit is devastating, even for a BB on the receiving end.  Citadel damage isn't as easy to recover compared to Fire & Flood damage.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables#Repair_Party

v6kBuRQ.jpg

 

Citadel damage is High Quality damage.  It's much more lasting.  AP is the shell typically the best in getting Citadel damage.  HE can in specific cases, but even if HE shells do Citadel someone, the low HE shell damage value will mean it does less damage as an AP shell achieving the same thing.

 

You do AP because you are looking to do massive, instant damage that with Citadel strikes, cannot be recovered much.

You can heal back 100% of Fire / Flood damage.  The key is stopping those effects before floods run out of control, stop 2+ fires from raging, so proper DCP use easily fixes these.

But AP doing Citadel damage, that's going to stick real good.  Even Repair Party will not help much.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Don't forget over-penetrations also include shells that pass through the super structure and anything above water, you cant flood if the hole is above the waterline.

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1 hour ago, DerKrampus said:

AP gives you this.  

 

That is why we do it, even with Cruisers.  Spike damage.  That RN CL going broadside to a DM at that range?

4GpyxTI.jpg

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Guys, guys, guys, you're all wrong.

 

There is something for AP.

 

 

 

 P̝̮̬̂̅̏͒ě͚̙̥̫̋ͣͯ̎ͣr̓ͪ͛̽̓͢m̵͉̟̙̟̺̽̄̆̽̎a͚̥d̹͓̼͔͕e̥̩̥̲̭̳͆ͩ͐̚a̜͍͍͂ͤ̅͌ͅt̮̥̣͚ͥ̈́͞ẖ́̀̒

 

 

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Damnit this topic is going to make me waste a crapload of time and try to find that 5x yamato vs yamato citadel I had back in the day. Might've been taken out with that lightning strike a few months ago though :(

Edit: Well damn... that's gone then. I guess take this relatively recent 3x citadel in my amagi vs a yamato into consideration then.

3xcitadel.thumb.jpg.2cbca0927fbf7ca1c343ab78d2c28f4d.jpg

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7 hours ago, Merlox said:

Ap does citadels, the ability to 1 shot targets and if they dont. They can only heal 10% damage...

They dont cause flooding Because a hole that a torpedo causes is much bigger hole than ap shells.

Not all torp hits cause flooding. What chance does the ap shell cause flooding when the overpen is that much smaller when a giant torp fails to flood? Lol

Tell Bismarck that. A single over penetrating 14" shell caused her to take 4000 tons of water on board.

 

--

 

Some of us years ago proposed to lower the damage of citadel hits and to move it to AP penetration hits instead. That way damage would be more consistent with less "wth 1 shot" moments. Playing BB is almost like a slot machine sometimes; you can aim in precisely the same area 10 times in a row and sometimes you will delete the target outright, other times you do nothing.

Edited by reaper_swpz

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8 hours ago, ph3l0n said:

But perma anything can drain you from 60k hps to 0 with 1 object hit.  You can't do that with 1 shell hit with a Citadel.  

manage your damcon better

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1 hour ago, reaper_swpz said:

Tell Bismarck that. A single over penetrating 14" shell caused her to take 4000 tons of water on board.

 

surely you cant believe this is sufficient evidence....1 ship, 1 incident is suddenly supposed to represent hundreds of others. this is like the "if google was a guy" video where google finds 1 result to support something and 500 why not, and the girl goes "knew it" and grabs the 1 page to support her argument.

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1 hour ago, reaper_swpz said:

Tell Bismarck that. A single over penetrating 14" shell caused her to take 4000 tons of water on board.

 

--

 

Some of us years ago proposed to lower the damage of citadel hits and to move it to AP penetration hits instead. That way damage would be more consistent with less "wth 1 shot" moments. Playing BB is almost like a slot machine sometimes; you can aim in precisely the same area 10 times in a row and sometimes you will delete the target outright, other times you do nothing.

That hit is what doomed the bismarck .....than the lucky torp hit on its rudders sealed its fate.

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because all those holes in the superstructure totally are underwater...

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10 hours ago, ph3l0n said:

But perma anything can drain you from 60k hps to 0 with 1 object hit.  You can't do that with 1 shell hit with a Citadel.  

Actually one hit is not causing a permaflood or fire. You are taking multiple hits in different salvos and you used your repair for that to happen. It is actually a series of events before this occurs. 

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3 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

surely you cant believe this is sufficient evidence....1 ship, 1 incident is suddenly supposed to represent hundreds of others. this is like the "if google was a guy" video where google finds 1 result to support something and 500 why not, and the girl goes "knew it" and grabs the 1 page to support her argument.

Below the water line penetrations will cause flooding whether they explode or not. In fact a shell is in theory liable to cause more flooding than a torpedo as a shell is easily able to hole both the outer hull, the torpedo bulkheads and other traverse bulkheads as well where as a torpedo will usually detonate against the torpedo bulkhead and be contained there.

 

This is an extrapolation but it follows a logical course of action. Ships with effective TDS don't sink due to torpedo hits and if the TDS is good, they take no damage worth mention that would impair their effectiveness. Bismarck absorbed no less than 2 torpedoes (we don't know if Vian's destroyers ever successfully torpedoed her as the ships logs were lost with the ship) and was fully combat effective aside from her rudder jam when KGV and Rodney bombarded her into a hulk. North Carolina absorbed 2 torpedoes as well for a mere 1000 tons of water on board - they were Long Lances too if memory serves. This is because torpedoes detonate on contact usually and have no penetrative ability. A shell does and an underwater hit that struck under the belts could easily defeat whatever plating is there - and if it exploded; that ship will be in trouble. Even if it doesn't explode, that ship will still take on water from the hole.

 

Bismarck you could say is an exceptional case where the workmanship and engineering was remarkable - I've read of no other battleship that has absorbed torpedoes to zero effect for example. However, it is none the less an example of what is possible and what usually happens.

 

On the topic of Bismarck - Prince of Wales took a 15" hit below the water line and shipped 400t of water - the shell did not explode. If it did, I imagine it could have been much more.

 

SMS Lutzow was sunk from 2 12" hits to the bow under the water line that caused her to first take 3000t of water that later became unmanageable.

Edited by reaper_swpz

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the game supposedly did have flooding for below-the-waterline AP overpens in alpha or beta or something. I wasn't there, but people tell me it was taken out because, well, your ship was always flooding, and it wasn't very fun.

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Smaller Round Ovepen AP Shell holes are easily plugged with all the spare chewing gum found under the tables on the mess deck. 

Torpedoes and ramming damage causing tears in the metal are more complex and larger. This scale of repair depletes the under-table gum supply, thus requiring the damage control crew to chew all that gum anew for the next Dcon activation. 

More recently to note, the October Revolution crews were given a small supply of Flex Seal.  Tests are ongoing.... 

 

  

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Happy668 said:

perma flooding is pretty stupid and should be done with

"Perma anything is pretty stupid and should be done with."  I fixed that for you.

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I love you "1 Fire and I pop DCP" players.  I truly do.

 

No seriously, that's an honest statement :Smile_Default:

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On 8/28/2018 at 10:35 PM, ph3l0n said:

But perma anything can drain you from 60k hps to 0 with 1 object hit.  You can't do that with 1 shell hit with a Citadel.  

Citadel hits can delete a cruiser in a single salvo; what more do you want? Overpens are assumed to go through non-essential parts of the ship if they don't take out modules. Anything else that would poke a hole through something that might do dangerous damage is included in the citadel hit. Remember that this is a historic game but not per se a simulation. The game has certain damage parameters set up. Learn how they work and how to apply the proper ones to best sink the ship type you are firing at.   

Edited by Snargfargle

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