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Rabin69

Shima legendary module....

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I have seen lots of negative feedback on this, but still decided to mount it once I got it.

Just my two cents, I agree with most commentators so far, the tube traverse is horrible. Feels like I'm playing a low tier British BB turning these things. 

The positive is that with the faster reload you can launch at some unexpected points that ships are not expecting, especially if you stagger your tubes and not shoot all fish at once.

Got the result below in ranked, my fellow shima captain was amused that I chose to run the mod.

For my fellow shima lovers, I say try it and if its not your cup of tea, sell it for the credits. 

 

shot-18.08.28_20.49.21-0952.jpg

shot-18.08.28_21.02.38-0898.jpg

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 Impressive, especially since you only had 7 targets.  That said, you could have just as easy had a game where it burned you.  Will be interested in your thoughts after more reps.

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I was in a ranked game recently where someone was crying "hack" because a Shimi had sent out torps "too fast." I bet the Shimi had this module mounted.

I seem to have run into another one the other day too. I was circling it with my Gearing shooting HE. I wondered why it never tried to torp me. I think it's launchers were traversing too slow. 

Edited by Snargfargle
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10 hours ago, Warped_1 said:

 Impressive, especially since you only had 7 targets.  That said, you could have just as easy had a game where it burned you.  Will be interested in your thoughts after more reps.

I was able to get in five more matches after with mixed results.

Two games was able to position well against ships advancing on a flank and while the damage numbers weren't as high i was able to effectively stop the push alone (shima torps, feast or famine). It takes the concept of wall of skill to a new level, again only if you don't blow all tubes in one salvo, but stagger each launch by 5 to 10 seconds or more. There was a BB i was targeting that was using WASD really well, unfortunately for him i think he counts off time before changing course. I was able to get a dev strike against him, most likely because he was expecting the longer reload and decided that he could have turned 10 seconds later.

The real weakness (the traverse) becomes horribly obvious if you have to assist with a push/aggressively scout a flank. Any maneuvering requiring you to change course and the tubes can't keep up to maintain target lock. I missed at least three opportunities to nuke BBs, because i had to change track to avoid getting too close to the radar cruiser who suddenly popped into view.

It forces you to play more at full torp (12k) range rather than that 6 to 10k range that I like. Swing in with speed boost (or not), launch fish then angle away, not possible with this mod. It seems to take away the advantage of that 5.6 k concealment.

You do not want to tangle against other dds if you run this mod, even if your's lucky they are on the side the tubes are aimed, you will never be able to hit.

So yeah its nice, but I can see lots of folks just sitting back and being long range torp spammers, which might work once in a while, but unless they buff IJN torp detect....more misses than hits.

The more aggressive players who can get into those good ambush areas, especially if the enemy is advancing, will slaughter ships. Reminded me a bit of playing low tier USN dds, map awareness is even more key.    

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@Rabin69 here are the numbers for people to compare what the Shima Unique Upgrade does.

 

Shimakaze Accelerated Torpedo Tube Reload Unique Upgrade slot 6

The Shimakaze Unique Upgrade gets a -25% torpedo reload, -80% torpedo traverse and +50% chance of torpedo incapacitation.


Shima Unique Upgrade.
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
11.37km main gun range
98.3s reload 8km torps and 88.4s with TAE skill. 
114.8s reload 12km torps and 103.3s with TAE skill. 
112.5s reload 20km torps and 101.3s with TAE skill. 
36s torpedo 180 degree traverse!  Add in ASM1 in slot 3 & the traverse is 30 seconds.
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS

Torpedo Tubes mod 3 gives you -15% torpedo reload and +50% chance of detonation.
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
11.37km main gun range
111.4s reload 8km torps and 100.2s with TAE skill.
130s reload 12km torps and 117s with TAE skill.
127.5s reload 20km torps and 114.8s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse  Add in ASM1 in slot 3 & the traverse is 6 seconds.
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS

Main Battery mod 3 (MBM3) gives -12% main battery reload, +13% main battery turret traverse;
5.05s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 4.55s reload 
26.19s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 19.20s 180 degree traverse  
11.37km main gun range
131s reload 8km torps and 117.8s with TAE skill.
153s reload 12km torps and 137.7s with TAE skill.
150s reload 20km torps and 135s with TAE skill. 
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse  Add in ASM1 in slot 3 & the traverse is 6 seconds.
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS


Gun Fire Control System mod 2 (GFCS2) gives +16% main battery firing range
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
13.19km main gun range
131s reload 8km torps and 117.8s with TAE skill.
153s reload 12km torps and 137.7s with TAE skill.
150s reload 20km torps and 135s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse  Add in ASM1 in slot 3 & the traverse is 6 seconds.
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS

AA Guns mod 3 gives +25% AA DPS
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
11.37km main gun range
131s reload 8km torps and 117.8s with TAE skill.
153s reload 12km torps and 137.7s with TAE skill.
150s reload 20km torps and 135s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse   Add in ASM1 in slot 3 & the traverse is 6 seconds.
3x2 127mm AA 37.9 DPS, add BFT for 45.5 DPS, add in signal flag 50 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 31.5 DPS, add BFT for 37.8 DPS, add in signal flag 41.6 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 6.3 DPS, add BFT for 7.5 DPS, add in signal flag 8.3 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 15.3 DPS, add BFT for 18.3 DPS, add in signal flag 20.1 DPS

The big differences between the UU and the TTM3

The reload drop from the TTM3 for the TTR Unique Upgrade is not as significant for the torp traverse lost.
88.4s reload 8km torps, meaning a 12.2s drop from the TTM3 upgrade
103.3s reload 12km torps, meaning a 13.7s drop from the TTM3 upgrade
101.3s reload 20km torps, meaning a 13.5s drop from the TTM3 upgrade

The Shimakaze has a 25 degrees per second torp traverse, which is 7.2s for a 180 degree turn.
So with the Unique Upgrade the 25 degrees per second traverse drops to 5 degrees per second traverse and that makes the 180 degree turn 36 sec for the torps. With Aiming Systems mod 1, the Unique Upgrade traverse is 6 degrees per second and that makes the 180 degree turn 30 sec for the torps.

I think that the Shima Unique Upgrade torp traverse could be changed and I believe WG will only do it if the stats show it needs a buff. I think that the -80% torp traverse could be dropped to 60-65% and work, but that is my opinion.
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -40% that makes the torp traverse 12s for a 180 degree turn which seems too low. (10s with ASM1 in slot 3)
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -50% that makes the torp traverse 14.4s for a 180 degree turn. (12s with ASM1 in slot 3)
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -60% that makes the torp traverse 18s for a 180 degree turn. (15s with ASM1 in slot 3)
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -65% that makes the torp traverse 20.6s for a 180 degree turn. (17.1s with ASM1 in slot 3)
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -75% that makes the torp traverse 28s for a 180 degree turn which seems too high. (24s with ASM1 in slot 3)

 

Disclaimer, I don't have the Shima.

Edited by Kizarvexis
added in ASM1 slot 3 torp traverse buff
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Nice work again dude.

You are doing a great service by providing this info to all players. Lord know I don'y have the patience to get all that data (at least not for free).

It may sound small, but 14 seconds feels like a lifetime for a Shima captain waiting for torpedoes to come up.

The thing with traverse speeds is that you have to account for the effect of maneuvering. 5 degrees per second can feel like 1 degree if you are turning in the opposite direction you are trying to get the torps lined up on.

Based on WG traditional love for IJN torp boats, I don't expect they will change it, but I agree the 60-65% would be very workable.

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11 minutes ago, Rabin69 said:

Nice work again dude.

You are doing a great service by providing this info to all players. Lord know I don'y have the patience to get all that data (at least not for free).

It may sound small, but 14 seconds feels like a lifetime for a Shima captain waiting for torpedoes to come up.

The thing with traverse speeds is that you have to account for the effect of maneuvering. 5 degrees per second can feel like 1 degree if you are turning in the opposite direction you are trying to get the torps lined up on.

Based on WG traditional love for IJN torp boats, I don't expect they will change it, but I agree the 60-65% would be very workable.

You are welcome. I'm trying to do this for all the T10s. Hope to finish by the weekend and post a thread for each ship in the Guides forum. I'm about 50% done.

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Torps are the Shima's only really effective weapon and that includes for defense. The traverse annihilates the ability to switch to a target on the opposite side and leaves you completely open to getting [edited] over in a hurry. The 10% is totally not worth it. I played 1 to 3 games with it and immediately took it back off. I have 900+ games in my Shima. The "legendary" upgrade is a massive let down and as it was my first and only one killed any enthusiasm I had for getting the remaining 13 or 14 I haven't cared to grind out.

EDIT: TLDR: It's not fun to play with AT ALL and the negatives grossly outweigh the benefit.

Edited by w4spl3g

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2 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

@Rabin69 here are the numbers for people to compare what the Shima Unique Upgrade does.

 

Shimakaze Accelerated Torpedo Tube Reload Unique Upgrade slot 6

The Shimakaze Unique Upgrade gets a -25% torpedo reload, -80% torpedo traverse and +50% chance of torpedo incapacitation.


Shima Unique Upgrade.
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
11.37km main gun range
98.3s reload 8km torps and 88.4s with TAE skill.
114.8s reload 12km torps and 103.3s with TAE skill.
112.5s reload 20km torps and 101.3s with TAE skill.
36s torpedo 180 degree traverse! 
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS

Torpedo Tubes mod 3 gives you -15% torpedo reload and +50% chance of detonation.
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
11.37km main gun range
111.4s reload 8km torps and 100.2s with TAE skill.
130s reload 12km torps and 117s with TAE skill.
127.5s reload 20km torps and 114.8s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS

Main Battery mod 3 (MBM3) gives -12% main battery reload, +13% main battery turret traverse;
5.05s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 4.55s reload 
26.19s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 19.20s 180 degree traverse  
11.37km main gun range
131s reload 8km torps and 117.8s with TAE skill.
153s reload 12km torps and 137.7s with TAE skill.
150s reload 20km torps and 135s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS


Gun Fire Control System mod 2 (GFCS2) gives +16% main battery firing range
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
13.19km main gun range
131s reload 8km torps and 117.8s with TAE skill.
153s reload 12km torps and 137.7s with TAE skill.
150s reload 20km torps and 135s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse
3x2 127mm AA 30.3 DPS, add BFT for 36.4 DPS, add in signal flag 40 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 25.2 DPS, add BFT for 30.2 DPS, add in signal flag 33.3 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 5 DPS, add BFT for 6 DPS, add in signal flag 6.6 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 12.2 DPS, add BFT for 14.6 DPS, add in signal flag 16.1 DPS

AA Guns mod 3 gives +25% AA DPS
5.74s main gun reload, add BFT and you get 5.17s reload 
22.78s Main gun turret 180 degree traverse and EM skill gives you 17.31s 180 degree traverse
11.37km main gun range
131s reload 8km torps and 117.8s with TAE skill.
153s reload 12km torps and 137.7s with TAE skill.
150s reload 20km torps and 135s with TAE skill.
7.2s torpedo 180 degree traverse
3x2 127mm AA 37.9 DPS, add BFT for 45.5 DPS, add in signal flag 50 DPS
14x1 25mm AA 31.5 DPS, add BFT for 37.8 DPS, add in signal flag 41.6 DPS
1x2 25mm AA 6.3 DPS, add BFT for 7.5 DPS, add in signal flag 8.3 DPS
2x3 25mm AA 15.3 DPS, add BFT for 18.3 DPS, add in signal flag 20.1 DPS

The big differences between the UU and the TTM3

The reload drop from the TTM3 for the TTR Unique Upgrade is not as significant for the torp traverse lost.
88.4s reload 8km torps, meaning a 12.2s drop from the TTM3 upgrade
103.3s reload 12km torps, meaning a 13.7s drop from the TTM3 upgrade
101.3s reload 20km torps, meaning a 13.5s drop from the TTM3 upgrade

The Shimakaze has a 25 degrees per second torp traverse, which is 7.2s for a 180 degree turn.
So with the Unique Upgrade the 25 degrees per second traverse drops to 5 degrees per second traverse and that makes the 180 degree turn 36 sec for the torps.

 

===========================================================================================

 

I think that the Shima Unique Upgrade torp traverse could be changed and I believe WG will only do it if the stats show it needs a buff. I think that the -80% torp traverse could be dropped to 60-65% and work, but that is my opinion.


If the torp traverse could be dropped to -40% that makes the torp traverse 12s for a 180 degree turn which seems too low.
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -50% that makes the torp traverse 14.4s for a 180 degree turn.
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -60% that makes the torp traverse 18s for a 180 degree turn.
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -65% that makes the torp traverse 20.6s for a 180 degree turn.
If the torp traverse could be dropped to -75% that makes the torp traverse 28s for a 180 degree turn which seems too high.

Disclaimer, I don't have the Shima.

I dont see you taking 20% off tube traverse for aiming systems mod 1.

Or did i miss it?

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28 minutes ago, FirstOfOne said:

I dont see you taking 20% off tube traverse for aiming systems mod 1.

Or did i miss it?

Nope. I didn't factor that it. I will update it in a few minutes.

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