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Airglide2

Need clarification on Netherlands and other countries confirmation.

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When the CCs said they are “confirmed”, are they confirming the countries will get their own tech tree OR are they confirmed to just show up under the Pan-EU tech tree as premiums?  I am aware of the “separate tree if popular” sentence, but I need some clarification because of what “confirmed” means.  The CCs left it vague I felt.

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1 minute ago, Airglide2 said:

they confirmed to just show up under the Pan-EU tech tree as premiums? 

^

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14 minutes ago, Lert said:

^

Oh Gad Danggit!  I thought they had a chance.  What [edited].  But thanks for the answer.

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1 minute ago, Airglide2 said:

Oh Gad Danggit!  I thought they had a chance.  What [edited].  But thanks for the answer.

From how I understand it there's still a chance for full tech trees, but that is basically if WG can be arsed to implement them. Personally, I'm happy with a few premiums. Realistically full tech trees are not very likely to be introduced.

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You maybe right on BBs, but do you stand by that even after learning the trees can be brought up halfway up?  Which to me (and WG too) should be good enough.  Hell, look at the French BBs!  What’s there excuse?

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1 minute ago, Airglide2 said:

but do you stand by that even after learning the trees can be brought up halfway up?

Oh I can fill most of a DD tree and most of a CL / CA tree with built-in-steel historical designs, but just because I can name them doesn't mean WG is going to implement them in a researchable tech tree. My theory is that they're first going to wait and see how well pan-european premiums sell before deciding to implement a tier I-X tech tree.

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22 minutes ago, Lert said:

Oh I can fill most of a DD tree and most of a CL / CA tree with built-in-steel historical designs, but just because I can name them doesn't mean WG is going to implement them in a researchable tech tree. My theory is that they're first going to wait and see how well pan-european premiums sell before deciding to implement a tier I-X tech tree.

I don’t know about that theory.  That can just mean, “whichever nation has the coolest quirk gets a tech tree”!  It sounds like favoratism.  

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2 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

I don’t know about that theory.  That can just mean, “whichever nation has the coolest quirk gets a tech tree”!  It sounds like favoratism.  

A full researchable tech tree costs a lot of time, effort and money to develop, and doesn't directly bring in money. A few premium ships cost a lot less time, effort and money to develop, but do directly generate income. If the sale of pan-european premiums doesn't generate the income to justify dedicating the time, effort and money into developing and releasing a full researchable tech tree, they might not. it's basic economics.

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A lot also depends on accessibility to design info and, above all, permission of the owner.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

A full researchable tech tree costs a lot of time, effort and money to develop, and doesn't directly bring in money. A few premium ships cost a lot less time, effort and money to develop, but do directly generate income. If the sale of pan-european premiums doesn't generate the income to justify dedicating the time, effort and money into developing and releasing a full researchable tech tree, they might not. it's basic economics.

What about the number of people skipping tiers?

“If the sale of pan-european premiums doesn't generate the income...”

But that’s just it, WHICH nation is going generate the buzz to earn itself a tech tree?  Which to me sounds like, “Answer:  The one with the coolest gimmick.”  Sounds, again, like favoratism.  But I think I have the answer in the form of Nueve de Julio.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, Airglide2 said:

“Answer:  The one with the coolest gimmick.”

Historical ships don't have gimmicks, really. Not in the way WoWS has them. That's all down to WG what gimmick they come up with and which nation they give it to.

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11 minutes ago, Lert said:

Historical ships don't have gimmicks, really. Not in the way WoWS has them. That's all down to WG what gimmick they come up with and which nation they give it to.

Pffft, well God Bless ya if you think WG’s gonna release a premium with no gimmick and just remains purely historical XD.  I just saw the Netherlands as being the only nation (truly) outside the tech tree nations we have now that has a fair chance of being its own nation due to having enough real world, not made up, ships.  I have yet to hear any nation that can compete.  I’d seriously hate for WOWS to pull a “WOT Poland/Czech tech tree”.

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1 minute ago, Airglide2 said:

Pffft, well God Bless ya if you think WG’s gonna release a premium with no gimmick and just remains purely historical XD.  I just saw the Netherlands as being the only nation (truly) outside the tech tree nations we have now that has a fair chance of being its own nation due to having enough real world, not made up, ships.  I have yet to hear any nation that can compete.  I’d seriously hate for WOWS to pull a “WOT Poland/Czech tech tree”.

You're forgetting Italy, which doesn't have a tech tree line yet, though undoubtedly will.

Austria-Hungary could do a partial tech tree of locally built ships, including BBs, which is a lot more than many other nations could.  But since A-H ceased to exist after WW1, a fully fleshed out tech tree would be purely fictional.

Personally, I think that the Netherlands should be part of a Pan-European tree, along with Poland, Turkey, Spain, Austria-Hungary, and so on and so on.

 

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9 minutes ago, Crucis said:

You're forgetting Italy, which doesn't have a tech tree line yet, though undoubtedly will.

Austria-Hungary could do a partial tech tree of locally built ships, including BBs, which is a lot more than many other nations could.  But since A-H ceased to exist after WW1, a fully fleshed out tech tree would be purely fictional.

Personally, I think that the Netherlands should be part of a Pan-European tree, along with Poland, Turkey, Spain, Austria-Hungary, and so on and so on.

 

I forgot Italy on purpose because everyone knows they have enough ships.  

A-H is not enough for three lines, not even close.  At best they should all be premiums.  Outside of the current game tech tree nations, the Netherlands actually had more than one/two cruisers unlike everyone else.  They can go far enough beyond what everyone else had at the beginning of the Korean War.  There is no reason for them to be just premiums in the Pan-European tree, it makes no numerical sense.  

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8 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

I forgot Italy on purpose because everyone knows they have enough ships.  

A-H is not enough for three lines, not even close.  At best they should all be premiums.  Outside of the current game tech tree nations, the Netherlands actually had more than one/two cruisers unlike everyone else.  They can go far enough beyond what everyone else had at the beginning of the Korean War.  There is no reason for them to be just premiums in the Pan-European tree, it makes no numerical sense.  

Like I said, I think that all of the nations in Europe not currently in the game (excluding Poland) should be part of a pan-European tree, including Austria-Hungary.

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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Like I said, I think that all of the nations in Europe not currently in the game (excluding Poland) should be part of a pan-European tree, including Austria-Hungary.

Ok but your answer for Netherlands being in the Pan-EU is, in short, “just because”.  Meanwhile my answer is more fleshed out (and realistic if I do say so myself).

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

My theory is that they're first going to wait and see how well pan-european premiums sell before deciding to implement a tier I-X tech tree.

Yeah, they'll need a brand new set of unique gimmicks all their own!

1 hour ago, Lert said:

Historical ships don't have gimmicks, really.

Belfast, Stalingrad, Graf Zeppelin ... nah, no gimmicks there Amigo!

1 hour ago, Lert said:

That's all down to WG what gimmick they come up with and which nation they give it to.

Sad but all too true.

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5 hours ago, Umikami said:

Belfast, Stalingrad, Graf Zeppelin ... nah, no gimmicks there Amigo!

Ok then, explain to me what 'gimmick' the historical ship had - oh, wait, two of these three were never even completed and the one that was, was a 100% typical light cruiser.

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8 hours ago, Lert said:

Oh I can fill most of a DD tree and most of a CL / CA tree with built-in-steel historical designs, but just because I can name them doesn't mean WG is going to implement them in a researchable tech tree. My theory is that they're first going to wait and see how well pan-european premiums sell before deciding to implement a tier I-X tech tree.

Their history for ships outside the major navies of the game is pretty spotty though.

Blyskawica's the sole Polish ship and she's been in the game for years.

Commonwealth is the oldest of these "Pan" type of nationalities in the game and there's only 3 ships there.

 

WG has a lot of work to do if they want to test PanEU ships out on us.

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as long as the mighty Austro-Hungarian navy get's love i'm happy.

#giveaustriaaccesstotheseagain

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I'll never know where they came from or why they left, but I'm Jewish and my family came from (somewhere) in the Austria Hungary empire, so bring on the dreadnoughts. Nikolai won't be OP when the Tegetthoff class is added to T4.

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9 hours ago, Lert said:

Ok then, explain to me what 'gimmick' the historical ship had - oh, wait, two of these three were never even completed and the one that was, was a 100% typical light cruiser.

Historically, of course, no ships really had gimmicks; the possible exceptions I can think of being the IJN cruiser Kitakaze and the IJN submarine with the cruiser guns on it. In game, however, a totally different story, and WoW is just in love with gimmicks for every new line. The three ships I mentioned are just stand out examples of regular ships, or ships which would have been regular ships, that WoW has gimmicked to the gills. Of course, in the cases of GZ and Stalingrad, being paper ships, gimmicking is almost required as actual stats are unavailable for ships which were never actually built or sailed, and so they are made competitive and add to the power creep issue. 

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Just now, Umikami said:

In game, however, a totally different story, and WoW is just in love with gimmicks for every new line.

Yup. But it is my sincere hope that at least the Dutch ships in the Pan European nation will be balanced on their own merit rather than be given play-style defining gimmicks. I tried keeping to that with my own proposals, though I couldn't escape giving de Ruyter and Java improved AP shells to balance out disappointing DPM, although WG could just as easily massage their ROF a bit.

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Just now, Lert said:

Yup. But it is my sincere hope that at least the Dutch ships in the Pan European nation will be balanced on their own merit rather than be given play-style defining gimmicks. I tried keeping to that with my own proposals, though I couldn't escape giving de Ruyter and Java improved AP shells to balance out disappointing DPM, although WG could just as easily massage their ROF a bit.

Agree, and I hope they respect the amount of work you've put into the write-ups you've published in the forums; some of them could literally be condensed and put right into the wiki. As for as not getting gimmicked up, it would be my sincere hope that those Dutch ships built in foreign yards, as well as those built in the Netherlands, are kept consistent with each other and not made a hodge-podge of capabilities like the Pan-Asian line is. Doing ships up that way makes it difficult to progress a captain along with the ships as you level up.

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

As for as not getting gimmicked up <snip>

@LittleWhiteMouse suggested a 'gimmick' for Dutch ships that is subtle enough to not define the line, interesting enough to be useful and actually has a basis in history - though a somewhat tenuous one.

She suggested that Dutch ships lose less speed in a turn. This helps with with agility without making them overpowered, and it's a reference at least to the Age of Sail, where Michiel de Ruyter updated the Dutch navy with shallow-draft ships that could turn better and operate in shallower waters nearer the coast.

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