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ph3l0n

Please remove T8 from T9/10 games

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Playing in a T8 in a T10 game feels like I am throwing firecrackers at some guy with a shot gun.  I had 54 hits on 2x BB's one of which gave me broadsides all game long.  I could not pen their armor in my Amagi.  The [edited]dispersion does not help either.  I took 1 full salvo from a Yamato (with almost no dispersion and drained half my health.  This isn't fun, enjoyable or otherwise.  It honestly makes the grind almost not worth it.  Please, for the love of god.  Fix your match making, it is ruining your game.

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1 minute ago, ph3l0n said:

Playing in a T8 in a T10 game feels like I am throwing firecrackers at some guy with a shot gun.  I had 54 hits on 2x BB's one of which gave me broadsides all game long.  I could not pen their armor in my Amagi.  The [edited]dispersion does not help either.  I took 1 full salvo from a Yamato (with almost no dispersion and drained half my health.  This isn't fun, enjoyable or otherwise.  It honestly makes the grind almost not worth it.  Please, for the love of god.  Fix your match making, it is ruining your game.

I will switch to HEs if I find that my BB can get anything done with APs.  With a decent fire chance you have a chance of setting them on fire which will at least do something.  I tend to only do this if I am -2 - VIII vs X, VI vs VIII, etc.  This is especially true for the Amagi - I seem to get worthless AP hits with that boat more than most...

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Almost sounds like you are aiming at their armor belt.  You may have better results aiming for where the deck meets the side.  Some shells while go into the superstructure and some will go into the area right above the belt.  I used to find German BBs almost impossible to deal with until I started following this advice.  Get a BBQ started with HE and do a bit of AP damage.  Alternate as desired.  (Unfortunately, I still forget this at times.)

Edited by ExploratorOne
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What? Another post about T8 matchmaking? It's almost like there's something wrong with the matchmaker.

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My tier 8 ships feast upon the tier X HP and pays me really well. I don’t mind facing tier 10 with tier 8.

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5 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

Playing in a T8 in a T10 game feels like I am throwing firecrackers at some guy with a shot gun.  I had 54 hits on 2x BB's one of which gave me broadsides all game long.  I could not pen their armor in my Amagi.  The [edited]dispersion does not help either.  I took 1 full salvo from a Yamato (with almost no dispersion and drained half my health.  This isn't fun, enjoyable or otherwise.  It honestly makes the grind almost not worth it.  Please, for the love of god.  Fix your match making, it is ruining your game.

Couple of questions. What bbs are you shooting at with Amagi? Second what range were you shooting at them from. The Yamato has some of the best sigma on her guns only behind stalingrad at 2.1 so she will have more consistant shots. Amagi is not a sniper type of bb, her dispersion makes it comfortable if you have to, but she is a more mid range and angled bb to fight with because of her armor scheme. If you lose half your health from a yamato take it as a lesson that you were showing too much side and got punished for it. Amagi is one of my favorite tier 8 bbs, she actually takes the spot from the NC for my top tier 8 bb. She is very strong if you know how to play her. She is a bb that you want to stay angled if being shot at because she will eat citadels at mid to long range quite easily.

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OP - just like life, you don't get better unless you're challenged. Tier 8 is where you start needing to know more about ships, game mechanics, etc.. Tier 8 ships are more than capable of contributing to a win in a tier 10 match, but you might have to engage your brain and actually think about how to play differently in order to meet the objectives. Maybe you can't just camp your BB in back just like every other game you played, but help your team push or cover a flank. Maybe you need to learn how to play your ship to mitigate it's weaknesses and maximize it's strengths. Maybe you need to be the guy who sacrifices his ship by ramming an enemy.

There are essentially two types of people in the world - those who blame everything else and make excuses for their hardships, and those who adapt and overcome. Either way we will all encounter failure and loss, it's just how you choose to learn from it that differentiates those who really win in life, and those who just lose. 

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7 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

What? Another post about T8 matchmaking? It's almost like there's something wrong with the matchmaker.

Yeah, the T8's should be down clubbing T6's.

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I love playing my Bismarck, Massachusetts, even the Kii vs T10's.  Great challenge and its a good way of letting you see different ships in battle.   Keep the MM the way it is.

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13 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

Almost sounds like you are aiming at their armor belt.  You may have better results aiming for where the deck meets the side.  Some shells while go into the superstructure and some will go into the area right above the belt.  I used to find German BBs almost impossible to deal with until I started following this advice.  Get a BBQ started with HE and do a bit of AP damage.  Alternate as desired.  (Unfortunately, I still forget this at times.)

I had broadside the whole game against one of the BBs.  I was aiming water line mid ship after travel time.  Dispersion is pure b-holes, but there is no reason I shouldn't have absolutely destroyed her.   I use HE when I have bad angles, but a full broadside should be all AP.  

10 minutes ago, Panic512 said:

Couple of questions. What bbs are you shooting at with Amagi? Second what range were you shooting at them from. The Yamato has some of the best sigma on her guns only behind stalingrad at 2.1 so she will have more consistant shots. Amagi is not a sniper type of bb, her dispersion makes it comfortable if you have to, but she is a more mid range and angled bb to fight with because of her armor scheme. If you lose half your health from a yamato take it as a lesson that you were showing too much side and got punished for it. Amagi is one of my favorite tier 8 bbs, she actually takes the spot from the NC for my top tier 8 bb. She is very strong if you know how to play her. She is a bb that you want to stay angled if being shot at because she will eat citadels at mid to long range quite easily.

I am shooting at Montana's and Yamamoto's.  I was shooting them from 10-14km range.  I was working to stay out of their secondaries and try to give them as little broadside as possible inbetween volleys.  I honestly have no problem in T8 games.  I wouldn't say I am the best BB player, but I can average 60-70k damage per game at t8 and my k/d is 1.3.

18 minutes ago, BruDog1970 said:

I will switch to HEs if I find that my BB can get anything done with APs.  With a decent fire chance you have a chance of setting them on fire which will at least do something.  I tend to only do this if I am -2 - VIII vs X, VI vs VIII, etc.  This is especially true for the Amagi - I seem to get worthless AP hits with that boat more than most...

If I wanted to play HE spam I would play a DD or Cruiser.  It feels bad that I have to switch to HE to try to do damage as a BB when they give me a full broadside.

Edited by ph3l0n

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 You guys are feeding an obvious troll !  Lol  ;  I mean just look at his rep . 

:Smile_honoring:

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Just now, ph3l0n said:

I had broadside the whole game against one of the BBs.  I was aiming water line mid ship after travel time.  Dispersion is pure b-holes, but there is no reason I shouldn't have absolutely destroyed her.   I use HE when I have bad angles, but a full broadside should be all AP.  

I am shooting at Montana's and Yamamoto's.  I was shooting them from 10-14km range.  I was working to stay out of their secondaries and try to give them as little broadside as possible inbetween volleys.  I honestly have no problem in T8 games.  I wouldn't say I am the best BB player, but I can average 60-70k damage per game at t8 and my k/d is 1.3.

If I wanted to play HE spam I would play a DD or Cruiser.  It feels bad that I have to switch to HE to try to do damage as a BB.

If your shooting at Montys and Yamatos from 10-14km range unless they are giving you broadside or a shallow angle, you will need to aim higher to hit super structure.

Dispersion on the Amagi with her 10 guns is actually pretty good. I would say play your amagi a little farther away from tier 10 bbs and then move closer towards the end of the game. Your K/D isn't really relevant in how well you play the ship.

If you want to if you have replays enabled I can look at how your playing your Amagi and see if I can help you get better at her against tier 10s.

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2 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

I had broadside the whole game against one of the BBs.  I was aiming water line mid ship after travel time.  Dispersion is pure b-holes, but there is no reason I shouldn't have absolutely destroyed her.   I use HE when I have bad angles, but a full broadside should be all AP.  

I am shooting at Montana's and Yamamoto's.  I was shooting them from 10-14km range.  I was working to stay out of their secondaries and try to give them as little broadside as possible inbetween volleys.  I honestly have no problem in T8 games.  I wouldn't say I am the best BB player, but I can average 60-70k damage per game at t8 and my k/d is 1.3.

 

Well there is your problem, there is more to the game than broadside or angled.   Range is just as important.   Amagi shells are not going to be able to pen the armor to get to the citadel from most shots when shooting at a Yammy or Monty at 14km, they simply lack the penetration power.   

Don't worry about their secondaries.  if they are turning broadside to bring them to bear on you, then simply close the distance to a range you can penetrate (around 8-10km) with every single shell and you will do more in 1 salvo then they can do to you with secondaries in several minutes.   

Also don't aim for the water line.  Aim above the water line in these situations.  Waterline means about half your shells hit the water and very quickly lose any penetration value.  The armor belt of the monty and yammy are such that you have to have a shell dive fairly deep to get under it, which in turn means it loses a LOT of its velocity due to the water.   Water line is for closer range shots or for soft shelled citadel targets like cruisers, where without the water to slow the shell down you would likely just get overpens *cough* edinburgh *cough*.   

Rather for a meaty target like the monty or yammy aim for their upper belt (just below the deck itself).  Every shell that hits this area at that range will produce a regular pen.   Those hitting superstructure will mostly be overpens, but those who go lower still have a chance to pen, and if you catch them in a turn just right you can sneak into the top of their citadel occasionally, even at that range.  In other words you will go from shattered shells to oodles of damage per hit.

 

2 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

If I wanted to play HE spam I would play a DD or Cruiser.  It feels bad that I have to switch to HE to try to do damage as a BB when they give me a full broadside.

 

Try not to get wrapped up in what the community attitude feels you should use.   Use whichever produces you the best result.   I shoot far more AP in my Cruisers and DDs than most folks, yet I shoot far more HE in my BBs than most folks, and am above the average damage in both.    The key is to use what works for the situation for you.   Broadside doesn't matter, only how much damage you do.   For example a BB which can overmatch someone's bow, shouldn't switch to HE if the target angles to them.   It isn't the angle but their ability to pen which determines if they should use high alpha AP or DoT HE.   Similarly even if a target is broadside you can sometimes do more with HE.   Especially if you are getting trolled by dispersion.   It does little good to shoot AP and have every shell shatter, bounce, or overpen.  Broadside or not you produce more damage in that case shooting HE with nearly every shell being a pen and a chance of fire.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

My tier 8 ships feast upon the tier X HP and pays me really well. I don’t mind facing tier 10 with tier 8

I have noticed recently that my t7's can make more in a t9 loss than they can make in a t7 win. 

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21 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

I had broadside the whole game against one of the BBs.  I was aiming water line mid ship after travel time.  Dispersion is pure b-holes, but there is no reason I shouldn't have absolutely destroyed her.   I use HE when I have bad angles, but a full broadside should be all AP.  

I am shooting at Montana's and Yamamoto's.  I was shooting them from 10-14km range.  I was working to stay out of their secondaries and try to give them as little broadside as possible inbetween volleys.  I honestly have no problem in T8 games.  I wouldn't say I am the best BB player, but I can average 60-70k damage per game at t8 and my k/d is 1.3.

If I wanted to play HE spam I would play a DD or Cruiser.  It feels bad that I have to switch to HE to try to do damage as a BB when they give me a full broadside.

Waterline is into the torpedo belt - thickest armor.  Aim at the top of the broadside, around deck line.  that is a "soft" part of a ship, except for the German turtleback armor at close range.  Some of the rounds will go in and do pen damage.  A few may even get to the citadel.  Dispersion will put a few into the superstructure and into the belt.

Yammi side armor above belt is not that difficult to pen, especially if it is fully flat.  Keep in mind that any angling will start causing autobounces.  You can look at the minimap to see what he actual angle is - it may look flat, but be somewhat angled.  A good opponent knows how to angle enough to generate bounces.  The Navigator mod on the WOWS and Aslain modpacks can help with determining relative angles.

Use whatever you have to to get the job done.  That is why we have multiple ammo types.  Not sure where the emotion comes into play with ammo types in WOWS.  Sure doesn't exist in actual combat.  Bottle of gasoline with a rag stuck in the top or cruise missile - you use what you have that will get the job done.

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5 minutes ago, skillztowin said:

I have noticed recently that my t7's can make more in a t9 loss than they can make in a t7 win. 

You get bonuses for damaging higher tiered ships.  That's why I like to be uptiered, especially when grinding for credits or XP.

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I haven't been playing this game long, but as we say on the Tanks forum, if you don't like being low tier in a T8 to T10 battle, then get just a T10 and play that. You aren't feeling so bad when you are in a T8 beating up on T6's, right? It all evens out in the end. The thing I like about this game over tanks is that T8 ships are far more capable then T8 tanks in a low tier scenario. T8 tanks are just HP fodder. 

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20 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

 

Well there is your problem, there is more to the game than broadside or angled.   Range is just as important.   Amagi shells are not going to be able to pen the armor to get to the citadel from most shots when shooting at a Yammy or Monty at 14km, they simply lack the penetration power.   

Don't worry about their secondaries.  if they are turning broadside to bring them to bear on you, then simply close the distance to a range you can penetrate (around 8-10km) with every single shell and you will do more in 1 salvo then they can do to you with secondaries in several minutes.   

Also don't aim for the water line.  Aim above the water line in these situations.  Waterline means about half your shells hit the water and very quickly lose any penetration value.  The armor belt of the monty and yammy are such that you have to have a shell dive fairly deep to get under it, which in turn means it loses a LOT of its velocity due to the water.   Water line is for closer range shots or for soft shelled citadel targets like cruisers, where without the water to slow the shell down you would likely just get overpens *cough* edinburgh *cough*.   

Rather for a meaty target like the monty or yammy aim for their upper belt (just below the deck itself).  Every shell that hits this area at that range will produce a regular pen.   Those hitting superstructure will mostly be overpens, but those who go lower still have a chance to pen, and if you catch them in a turn just right you can sneak into the top of their citadel occasionally, even at that range.  In other words you will go from shattered shells to oodles of damage per hit.

 

 

Try not to get wrapped up in what the community attitude feels you should use.   Use whichever produces you the best result.   I shoot far more AP in my Cruisers and DDs than most folks, yet I shoot far more HE in my BBs than most folks, and am above the average damage in both.    The key is to use what works for the situation for you.   Broadside doesn't matter, only how much damage you do.   For example a BB which can overmatch someone's bow, shouldn't switch to HE if the target angles to them.   It isn't the angle but their ability to pen which determines if they should use high alpha AP or DoT HE.   Similarly even if a target is broadside you can sometimes do more with HE.   Especially if you are getting trolled by dispersion.   It does little good to shoot AP and have every shell shatter, bounce, or overpen.  Broadside or not you produce more damage in that case shooting HE with nearly every shell being a pen and a chance of fire.

 

 

That is some fantastic insight, I will give it a go.  I do appreciate you taking the time out of your day to help.  Great read, would read again =)

Edited by ph3l0n

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With a few exceptions, I don't see a HUGE difference between T8 and T10 ships.   T8s are plenty capable of holding their own in any match.  You just have to learn each ships strengths and weaknesses.

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1 hour ago, BruDog1970 said:

I will switch to HEs if I find that my BB can get anything done with APs.  With a decent fire chance you have a chance of setting them on fire which will at least do something.  I tend to only do this if I am -2 - VIII vs X, VI vs VIII, etc.  This is especially true for the Amagi - I seem to get worthless AP hits with that boat more than most...

You can also try aiming at the superstructure, rather than the armored belt.  But yeah, switching to HE if you're having trouble getting penetrating hits against higher tier BBs is a solid decision.

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1 hour ago, ph3l0n said:

 

That is some fantastic insight, I will give it a go.  I do appreciate you taking the time out of your day to help.  Great read, would read again =)

Good luck.  Honestly Amagi is a great BB, and uptiers fairly well.   Her AP shells overpen cruisers less often than most of her fellow high tier BBs do, so she can be really good for generating those big damage citadel and dev strike hits on cruisers that go careless, or DDs that get caught out.   While this hurts her ability to high alpha strike BBs in many circumstances (such as at range), it is still a very useful tool to keep in mind.

Edited by SyndicatedINC
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1 hour ago, ExploratorOne said:

Almost sounds like you are aiming at their armor belt.  You may have better results aiming for where the deck meets the side.  Some shells while go into the superstructure and some will go into the area right above the belt.  I used to find German BBs almost impossible to deal with until I started following this advice.  Get a BBQ started with HE and do a bit of AP damage.  Alternate as desired.  (Unfortunately, I still forget this at times.)

Amagi can penetrate any T10 BB's belt at most ranges. OP, are you aiming/leading correctly? Also, sometimes a ship can look broadside, but it really isn't and that may throw you off.

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