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ph3l0n

Why are the best BBs T8 and below premium?

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I bought the Scharnhorst today and it is so much better than any other BB I have played at Rank 7 it is stupid.  I also have the Gulio Ceasar and that thing is just beyond good too.  Why do I have to spend money to play the best ships in the game?  Why are other non premium ships so much worse?

 

Case In Point: 

 

Edited by ph3l0n
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2 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

Why do I have to spend money to play the best ships in the game? 

Because the developers want to make money?

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There are mostly very good or OP. I still think Scharn isn't OP. But I would expect that Guilio and Ishizuchi are. 

 

Mass

Scharn

Giulio, (maybe Okt Rev)

Ishizuchi

Nikolai

Konig Albert

 

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5 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

I bought the Scharnhorst today and it is so much better than any other BB I have played at Rank 7 it is stupid.  I also have the Gulio Ceasar and that thing is just beyond good too.  Why do I have to spend money to play the best ships in the game?  Why are other non premium ships so much worse?

Meanwhile the Lyon, KGV, and Nagato

> GC

GC is probably the only borderline OP ship because of its concealment, speed, and guns, but even that can be countered with the Kongo (which is the best tech tree V BB) using her 20+ km guns and 30 kt speed.

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I will grant you the Giulio is superior to any tech tree tier V BB, but tier VII?

Your tech tree BBs are a silly HE spammer that can burn you for days and can't get citadelled (KGV), a BB that is in truth an artillery platform instead of an actual ship (Lyon), an accurate and devastating medium/long range specialist (Nagato), a close range brawler with the same platform as Scharn (Gneis), and dunno what positive to say about Colorado :Smile_hiding:.  As for tier VIII, afaik all tech tree BBs with the exception of Monarch are as good if not better than their premium counterparts.

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are you talking crap of lyon and my boy gneis?

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12 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

it is so much better than any other BB I have played at Rank 7 it is stupid.

I don't like it at all, it is stupid.

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They aren’t, I’m not sure where you came up with such an idea. The Bismarck is as good as or better than the Tirpitz, the North Carolina is as good as or better than the Alabama or Massachusetts, the Richelieu is better than the Gascogne, up until recently the Nagato was outright better than Ashitaka, etc. I’m glad that you like Scharnhorst and Giulio Cesare, that doesn’t mean that premium BBs > tech tree BBs.

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i unno amigo Lyon and a fully upgraded Nagato are both pretty sweet so is the KGV

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26 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

I bought the Scharnhorst today and it is so much better than any other BB I have played at Rank 7 it is stupid.  

 

Case In Point: 

 

Scharn is only ok. There is no situation in which I would not rather be in a Lyon. Wait 30 seconds, 16 guns solve all your problems. 

Scharn is not bad, but Lyon, Gneis, and KGV are better, and arguably, Nagato. Now that Ashitaka has actual guns instead of toys, its quite good as well. I stopped playing scharn ages ago because the tech tree BBs were mostly better.

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You don't know what you're talking about, OP.

 

Lyon, KGV are doing amazingly well in Tier VII BBs and they are Tech Tree BBs.  Matter of fact, KGV > Scharnhorst.  Yeah I said it, it needed to be said, somebody had to say it.  KGV is a Tech Tree Ship.  Lyon has been accepted into the fold very well due to her massive 16-gun salvo.  She tries to solve her problems by throwing as many shells as possible.  Nelson is also there, the dominant Tier VII BB, and she is available as a FreeXP ship which anyone can attain without spending any real money whatsoever.

 

The Tier VIII Battleship competition is actually pretty close.  Tech Tree Amagi, North Carolina for example are very solid ships.  One of the most popular ships in the game, PERIOD, is Tech Tree Bismarck and she does fine for herself as a Tech Tree BB in highly competitive Tier VIII BBs.  Matter of fact, Tech Tree Amagi, of all the Tier VIII BBs, flows most seamlessly into the Long Range High Tier Meta the best.

 

Tier VI BBs?  In Tier VI Ranked, Tech Tree Fuso kept up stride for stride with strong Premiums Warspite and Arizona.  Tech Tree Normandie is well liked due to her super fast speed.


Tier V BBs are outright broken by Caesar which is a Premium.

 

Tier IV BBs are outright broken by Imp.Nikolai I and Orion.  Imp.Nik. is Premium no longer in regular circulation, Orion is a Tech Tree ship.

 

Tier III BBs have Konig Albert, a Premium.

 

For Tier VIII and below, the only large BB balance problems exist in the lower tiers, III-V.  Because VI and higher, there are Tech Tree BBs that hang with the Premium BBs there very well, some even surpassing the Premiums.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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15 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I will grant you the Giulio is superior to any tech tree tier V BB, but tier VII?

Kongo, when used properly, is every bit as OP as the Giulio. Kongo has higher speed, slightly bigger guns, and is otherwise well rounded for her tier.  Giulio has 2 extra barrels, slightly less speed, weaker AA and secondaries. They're nearly the same ship.

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27 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

dunno what positive to say about Colorado

Ooh, pick me!  Colorado has an artificially boosted energy preservation in the turn along with some of the thickest belt armour at her tier and excellent penetration on her 406mm guns.
.... not that all of this makes her particularly good, mind you ...

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3 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Kongo, when used properly, is every bit as OP as the Giulio. Kongo has higher speed, slightly bigger guns, and is otherwise well rounded for her tier.  Giulio has 2 extra barrels, slightly less speed, weaker AA and secondaries. They're nearly the same ship.

The difference is Caesar has Pasta Ninja Stealth.  That stealth, combined with her fast speed, lets her pick the fights she wants to fight, creep up for advantageous gun salvos.  Kongo indeed is very fast for Tier V and pretty decent gunnery.  The problem Kongo has is she has IJN BB concealment, i.e. terrible.  You'll see Kongo a long ways off and she isn't surprising anyone, nor can she just disappear like the Pasta Ninja Caesar is.

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Like others said: there are good techtree BB.

Nagato 

NC

Amagi

Bismarck

Richelieu

Bayern

Lyon

KGV

Fusou

Kongo

and a few more of the below T5 boats.

Some of the premiums are just different enough from their techtree ship.

Scharnhorst: smaller caliber, more like a heavy cruiser then a BB, Gneisenau with B hull has a far better AA

Tirpitz: torpedos for less AA then a Bismarck B hull, first German premium

Mutsu: old A hull Nagato downtiered 

The Alabama is a bit of special since she can out turn the NC and has a extrem good torpedo belt.

Texas trades excellent AA for speed and turn rate. 

 

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6 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Kongo, when used properly, is every bit as OP as the Giulio. Kongo has higher speed, slightly bigger guns, and is otherwise well rounded for her tier.  Giulio has 2 extra barrels, slightly less speed, weaker AA and secondaries. They're nearly the same ship.

I would argue that at the current environment, Giulio's concealment gives it an edge over Kongo. 11.4km concealment is insane, giving you the ability to dictate lots of engagements.

Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Ooh, pick me!  Colorado has an artificially boosted energy preservation in the turn along with some of the thickest belt armour at her tier and excellent penetration on her 406mm guns.
.... not that all of this makes her particularly good, mind you ...

Now I am picturing every Colorado driver ever that gets abused by better ships thinking "hey, they might be able to stomp me, but I have artificially boosted energy preservation in the turn! That must mean something, right? RIGHT?"  :Smile_teethhappy:

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Many good BBs in the tree as indicated.

For Premiums, I like Tirpitz, Kii, Nelson, Hood, Scharnhorst, and of course Giulio.

Ishizuchi and The Unmentionable also have a good record and borderline OP.

Edited by alexf24

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14 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

Tirpitz: torpedos for less AA then a Bismarck B hull, first German premium

 

 

#FirstKMDDBestKMDD

 

17 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Ooh, pick me!  Colorado has an artificially boosted energy preservation in the turn along with some of the thickest belt armour at her tier and excellent penetration on her 406mm guns.
.... not that all of this makes her particularly good, mind you ...

 

Tehehehe

 

Yeah Colorado sucks, it's not really the armour or (these days), the HP, or the guns. It's the speed, if something goes wrong and you have to retreat your completely screwed in that ship. And if things are going well your in serious danger of being left behind.

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Plenty of good tech tree ships at those tiers. Wow look at that neg rep, that takes work.

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

I will grant you the Giulio is superior to any tech tree tier V BB, but tier VII?

Your tech tree BBs are a silly HE spammer that can burn you for days and can't get citadelled (KGV), a BB that is in truth an artillery platform instead of an actual ship (Lyon), an accurate and devastating medium/long range specialist (Nagato), a close range brawler with the same platform as Scharn (Gneis), and dunno what positive to say about Colorado :Smile_hiding:.  As for tier VIII, afaik all tech tree BBs with the exception of Monarch are as good if not better than their premium counterparts.

Tier 7 is actually quite a good tier for tech tree BBs.  They're all good, even the Colorado.  What the Colorado lacks in speed, it makes for with just about everything else.  (I still think that the Colorado should get a fictional engine upgrade to bump her speed up to, say, the mid 20's.  Heck, I think that the New Mex should get one as well.)

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You have not played any other t7 bb but nagato which you have done better in then the shinyhorse. The lyon is better then the Shiny horse. There are tech tree ships which are better then premiums, Helena being one of them. Heck I'll take amagi over any of the t8 premium bbs except the Mass. 

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5 minutes ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

You have not played any other t7 bb but nagato which you have done better in then the shinyhorse. The lyon is better then the Shiny horse. There are tech tree ships which are better then premiums, Helena being one of them. Heck I'll take amagi over any of the t8 premium bbs except the Mass. 

 

Good ob my favorite big ship is the first KM DD eh :Smile_trollface:

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Tech tree BBs can be just as good if not better. 

Example Lyon and Gneis (AA build) can obliterate enemies. The orion needed a nerf recently, new mex and all US BBs IMHO excel at the tiers that they are in. 

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2 hours ago, ph3l0n said:

I bought the Scharnhorst today and it is so much better than any other BB I have played at Rank 7 it is stupid.  I also have the Gulio Ceasar and that thing is just beyond good too.  Why do I have to spend money to play the best ships in the game?  Why are other non premium ships so much worse?

Because they aren't.  

Wyoming can take any T4 battleship and put them under the waves.  Best Battleship of the tier. 

Bismark is just as capable as Tirpitz.  She doesn't have the torpedoes but her Hydro gives her abilities her sister ship doesn't have.

Algerie and the LG are perhaps the best cruisers in their tier. 

North Carolina is every bit as good as either Alabama or Massachusetts or for any other battleship at T8. 

Clemson is simply a beast at her tier. 

Kirov is an amazing gunslinger with those 7.1 inch guns, I'd take her up against any cruiser at her tier bar none. 

Furutaka, not the greatest fan of IJN cruisers but the Furu with her 8 inch guns and those awesome torpedoe arcs make moving on to Aoba seem like a downgrade.  Great ship in the right hands 

Baltimore and Cleveland can match up with any other T8 out there and New Orleans at T7 is not at all bad either. 

Bellerophon with the ridiculous range of her main battery has the edge against anything she faces at her tier, Iron Duke is also exceptionally solid at her tier.   

What you get when you buy a premium is a ship that players generally want to have in the game that do not appear on the tech tree to the extent that players are willing to pay for those ships.  As a reward for your hard earned cash you get permanent cammo for free and the ability to transfer commanders between premiums freely with out retraining (as well as some limited ability to do the same between then and tech tree ships).  That, however, is all you're guaranteed to obtain when you put down your cold hard cash for a premium. 

Honestly, for every great Premium out there, there is also a Premium that is a dumpster fire or at least is a less than average performer.  Honestly, how may people out there vote for Huanghe, Mikasa, Katori, Yubari, or Duke of York for ship of the year.  

 

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel

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