Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
BlailBlerg

What quantitative or quantitative attributes define a ship as OP?

19 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

406
[FAE]
Members
2,117 posts
2,507 battles

If you were to use reason, objective data support, and reasonable reasoning to declare something OP (ha ha ha), what would you say? 

 

I'd argue that if there exists no counterplay that requires high level coordination between 2 or more ships to take it down, that's overpowered. Based on the given, that if your team is able to 2+ ships coordinate, the same is true for the other team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
469
[QNA]
[QNA]
Members
1,838 posts
5,879 battles

No ship is bad, only the COs who command them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,123
[ARGSY]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,106 posts
18,628 battles

There are two kinds of OP.

First: The absolute potato get a 5% better WR by just using the ship like he always do. That’s where the König Albrecht fits in.

Second: Good player who understand how the ship works can easy dominate the match by using the game mechanics to the max. The potato will be disappointed by this ship. Belfast anyone?

 

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
454
[LOU1]
Members
2,854 posts
7,987 battles

In interviews, Sub_Octavian has said the Balance team considers a ship over powered if, regardless of matchmaking or player skill, it gives a player an advantage and has no counters.  In other interviews, there has been mention of looking at the performance of the top 25% and bottom 25% of players.

Over Powered discussed at 11:44:

 

Power creep discussed at 6:54.  Balance discussed at 10:20:

 

Edited by ExploratorOne
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
239
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
1,311 posts
9,395 battles

As far as purely OP ships, basically any ship that has significant strengths without having exploitable weaknesses. There are really very few of them.

There's a lot of ships that players insist are OP only because players refuse to adapt to deal with them. According to cruiser captains that sail broadside to battleships, battleships are OP. According to captains that sail off on their own, away from all support, aircraft carriers are OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
459
[WORX]
Members
1,634 posts
12,682 battles

Easy, IMO, the BB class in the upper is the must OP class the game. Why ?

  1. BBs have a very low Citadel chance hit from cruisers
  2. BBs can delete any class ship in the upper tiers except other BBs
  3. BBs have very limited threats to deal with in the upper tiers
  4. BBs have benefited from BB class buffs or nerfs of the other classes in the upper tiers.
  5. BBs have benefited from having cruiser consumables which further solidifies their upper tier Over powered status 

Upper tier Cruisers are the second OP class in the game mainly

  1. Over powering of AA defense (some CVs are armament OP)
  2. For the use of radar,
  • It doesn't have to be long duration or long range radar to be OP. For example, at tier 7. The longest range/duration of radar is the Indianapolis, it rarely gets targeted by the red fleet. BUT thr ATL on the other hand, gets all the attention from the port lol. Everyone shoots at the ATL instead of the Indi, it is, what it is, it comes with the territory of being a ATL driver.

When these conditions are met, then IMO a ship class is OP.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
406
[FAE]
Members
2,117 posts
2,507 battles
5 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

In interviews, Sub_Octavian has said the Balance team considers a ship over powered if, regardless of matchmaking or player skill, it gives a player an advantage and has no counters.  In other interviews, there has been mention of looking at the performance of the top 25% and bottom 25% of players.

Over Powered discussed at 11:44:

 

Power creep discussed at 6:54.  Balance discussed at 10:20:

 

Great sources! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
360 posts
5,817 battles

ships that require teamwork and/or precise gunnery tends to be labeled as OP

Examples include conqueror, because not much counterplays to HE spam and super heal

Khaba because try hitting a 45knt ship 15 km away

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,028
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
15,144 posts
8,762 battles
17 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

There are two kinds of OP.

First: The absolute potato get a 5% better WR by just using the ship like he always do. That’s where the König Albrecht fits in.

Second: Good player who understand how the ship works can easy dominate the match by using the game mechanics to the max. The potato will be disappointed by this ship. Belfast anyone?

 

This ^

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,817 posts
3,959 battles

a ship that is more powerful than her counterparts and have few weakness.

giulio cesare is a good example

-good number of guns

-extreme accuracy

-excellent maneuverabillity

-fast

-but she is soft

-her AA is not that good

-low hp

but in the end,giulio is a anomaly at tier5,a tier where the BBs are not exactly know for their accurate guns,a tier where BBs are very slow,kongo might be fast,but she lose speed fast too.

 

Edited by Cruxdei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,735 posts
5,464 battles
4 minutes ago, The_Really_Good_Man said:

Khaba because try hitting a 45knt ship 15 km away

A funny way to counter this is to learn the lead of a Khebab in a straight line. On your first salvo, don't lead properly, so the shells land behind him. The Khebab now should think that you can't lead him and will be less likely to maneuver left or right. Whack him with the next salvo and watch him go dark. Too funny to see that happen. :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
444 posts
2,851 battles

There are a as many ways to be OP as there are people claiming a ship is OP.

One is to have lots of very useful strengths and few or no weaknesses and/or weaknesses that are inherently mitigated by the ship's play style.  A great example of this was the 
Gremyaschy some time ago, which was/is a gunship on par with the best gunships of its tier, has torpedoes comparable to the best at its tier, is stealthy, and fast, and agile, and its weakness is a slow turret traverse (mitigated by long engagement ranges and enough speed to dictate engagement range) and poor AA. (a capability most DDs keep turned off and consider themselves lucky if it does anything when turned on)

Another way to be considered OP is to have the ability to severely punish the class of ship that is supposed to counter yours while still also being able to punish the class of ship you would normally counter. This is a common accusation thrown at DDs, since a single torpedo can leave cruisers so badly damaged that they are likely to die before they can finish off the DD they are 'hunting" and cruisers at most tiers can't even see an enemy destroyer until they are inside the zone where torpedoes are difficult to dodge. Another example might be some of the high tier "flamethrower" cruisers that have had a reputation of being capable of burning down a battleship from ranges the battleship will struggle to even land a hit, but will still obliterate a DD in short order as well and have the speed and sonar/radar to be able to chase them down.

A third way to be seen as OP is to have a full package of vision shenanigans built in for free, e.g. radar/sonar and smoke on the same ship, or radar on a ship with extremely good concealment. Belfast is the most commonly seen offender here. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,022
[OPG]
Members
3,883 posts
5,476 battles

I don't think there is any reliable "quantitative" way of measuring if a ship is OP or not.  For me it's all qualitative.  Anyway with that aside, I personally can think of three qualitative metrics off the top of my head I use to determine if a ship is too strong or over powered.  In order from greatest to least importance they are.....

1.  No counter play (game breaking):  A ship that when played correctly has no natural counters and can dictate the pace of battle in order to secure its win condition regardless of what the opposing captain does.  Prime Example:  Belfast.

2. High Specialized (situationally OP): A ship that performs one task at an incredibly high degree of efficiency and can be situationally over powered when presented with opportunities to abuse its specialization.  This is a grey area as these ships generally have counters and can be played around if you're skilled.  Prime Example:  Stalingrad  

3. Outperforms opposition (power creep):  These ships aren't necessarily always strictly "over powered" (although they can be), but they perform a specific role or task better than other ships of the same tier, rendering them obsolete or redundant.   Prime Examples:  Missouri, Musashi 
 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
248
[H_]
Members
691 posts

I would measure the Combat Effectiveness (CE) of the ship in question and then compare that metric against in-class and out-of-class ships.  If the effectiveness metric is beyond and exceeds a  linear progression and comparisons of in-class studies, that ship is "significantly more by class" and that could signify that that ship is OP.   Especially, when CE exceeds class normalized CE values well outside of the ship class and level.

We actually could create a CE calculation with the data we have in-game and plot a ship against it's contemporaries.  If we had access to game data and results, we could seriously create a game CE by ship.  Then, if we added "captain skills and in-class historical effectiveness" into the metric, we could determine a more refined CE metric for that exact ship with any given Captain so MM could balance far more accurately...  Not all Khab's are the same even if they have exactly the same features, CPT skill, modules and flags.  The CPT's themselves, would tip the MM choice....

Some games take this seriously and some game simply count out the teams: one of these, three of those, 4 of those too and four of those wise guys make a team............drop....  Even though the CPT ratings are noobs against elites...  Depends on what you want !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
237
[WOLF2]
Members
1,105 posts
12,851 battles
2 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

If you were to use reason, objective data support, and reasonable reasoning to declare something OP (ha ha ha), what would you say? 

 

I'd argue that if there exists no counterplay that requires high level coordination between 2 or more ships to take it down, that's overpowered. Based on the given, that if your team is able to 2+ ships coordinate, the same is true for the other team. 

An OP player is the kind of player that can jump into any ship and be OP - usually followed by much whining and complaining, with a dash of salt :)

An OP ship is the kind of ship that anybody can jump into and become instantly Gud - followed by much whining and complaining as well.

The more whining and complaining, the more that ship is A BUY :)

Whining = DATA 

Edited by Commander_367
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×