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Torpin

Mistakes Made Season 10

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I would like to do a running commentary of mistakes made this season, and reflect how I can do better as a pure destroyer player this ranked season.

First off this weekend- made it to rank 8, then slid back to 10.

Forced myself not to be the first one to cap or even be close to the cap. 

This is helping a lot over last season in which I felt compelled to get in there and start the cap as soon as the map began.  Still seeing a lot of dd's rushing the cap, and getting deleted.  I am hanging back at least 11km from the cap until all radar cruisers are accounted for.  Sometimes I will "set off" the Des Moines island camping just to get him to kick his radar on, wait for it's full duration, and if there are no more radar cruisers in the area will dive into the cap during his cool down period.

These teams either follow directions or they don't.

Noticed a lot of times when the team would just split randomly for objectives, completely ignoring what was typed in chat.  Got so frustrated at one point that I disabled chat myself to cool down, and have now re-enabled it.  I think the lesson learned here is- you have to adjust to whatever the idiots on your team are going to do if you have any chance of winning (and don't take it personal that they are sending two cruisers to the safe cap when they should be contesting A).

Edited by Torpin

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10 minutes ago, Torpin said:

IThese teams either follow directions or they don't.

Noticed a lot of times when the team would just split randomly for objectives, completely ignoring what was typed in chat.  Got so frustrated at one point that I disabled chat myself to cool down, and have now re-enabled it.  I think the lesson learned here is- you have to adjust to whatever the idiots on your team are going to do if you have any chance of winning (and don't take it personal that they are sending two cruisers to the safe cap when they should be contesting A).

This has been a thing in Ranked since season one.  Don't expect it to ever change, until you start getting to the higher ranks.

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2 hours ago, Torpin said:

These teams either follow directions or they don't.

Noticed a lot of times when the team would just split randomly for objectives, completely ignoring what was typed in chat.  Got so frustrated at one point that I disabled chat myself to cool down, and have now re-enabled it.  I think the lesson learned here is- you have to adjust to whatever the idiots on your team are going to do if you have any chance of winning (and don't take it personal that they are sending two cruisers to the safe cap when they should be contesting A).

One thing to remember is that not all players load in as quick so comments/plans made and always there in chat if a player loads in later in the count down. I've loaded into the game later than others obviously have as I'll see a partial conversation. 

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8 minutes ago, Bravo4zero said:

I've loaded into the game later than others obviously have as I'll see a partial conversation. 

Can't you see the whole conversation if you hit RETURN? (unless it is getting really long or spammed with F responses). Just remember to hit RETURN again before ending up with a string of: WWWWDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD  (why won't this friggin' ship turn????)

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18 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Can't you see the whole conversation if you hit RETURN? (unless it is getting really long or spammed with F responses). Just remember to hit RETURN again before ending up with a string of: WWWWDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD  (why won't this friggin' ship turn????)

Yep, you can see it by hiting the return and IIRC, you can scroll up using the arrow keys and yes, I've done the WWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSDDDDDDDDDD etc before!! DOH!!! :cap_haloween:

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1 hour ago, Bravo4zero said:

Yep, you can see it by hiting the return and IIRC, you can scroll up using the arrow keys and yes, I've done the WWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSDDDDDDDDDD etc before!! DOH!!!

For me when not turning (sometimes it takes a while to realize I am not) I have to check whether I am in chat mode, if my fingers are actually on the A/D keys (for some reason "F" won't make you turn even faster) AND if those keys are responding. Not sure if it is my keyboard or some sort of internet connection thing but I will sometimes be stomped down hard on the A or D keys and NOTHING happens. Have to let up on the key and repress, then the rudder starts to shift.

As an aside, for those that have done the string of letters in chat (or will admit to it), do you just hit return, letting everyone know you screwed up or try to erase the string before hitting return?

Still wish WG would add something that automatically drops you out of chat if you type the same letter more than 10X in a row.

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2 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

For me when not turning (sometimes it takes a while to realize I am not) I have to check whether I am in chat mode, if my fingers are actually on the A/D keys (for some reason "F" won't make you turn even faster) AND if those keys are responding. Not sure if it is my keyboard or some sort of internet connection thing but I will sometimes be stomped down hard on the A or D keys and NOTHING happens. Have to let up on the key and repress, then the rudder starts to shift.

As an aside, for those that have done the string of letters in chat (or will admit to it), do you just hit return, letting everyone know you screwed up or try to erase the string before hitting return?

Still wish WG would add something that automatically drops you out of chat if you type the same letter more than 10X in a row.

I just hit the enter key! Perhaps people will think I’m less of a newbie for doing that than the fact I just gave a broadside to a bigger ship when they see I was desperately trying to turn! Lol

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17 hours ago, Torpin said:

Forced myself not to be the first one to cap or even be close to the cap. 

This is helping a lot over last season in which I felt compelled to get in there and start the cap as soon as the map began.  Still seeing a lot of dd's rushing the cap, and getting deleted.  I am hanging back at least 11km from the cap until all radar cruisers are accounted for.  Sometimes I will "set off" the Des Moines island camping just to get him to kick his radar on, wait for it's full duration, and if there are no more radar cruisers in the area will dive into the cap during his cool down period.

Like anything else in this game, you want to maintain a rigid state of flexibility.  Depending on which destroyer you're running, the team compositions, the early movements of your own team, your spawn point, and any information you have on specific players in the battle, the best move could be anything from diving straight into a likely to be contested cap to going straight into flanking/spotting mode and everything in between.  Blanket statements like this one are often what leads to the other issue you've mentioned.

13 hours ago, Bravo4zero said:

Yep, you can see it by hiting the return and IIRC, you can scroll up using the arrow keys

Selecting the chat window by pressing enter and then using your scroll wheel while holding down the control key also works.  I find that easier for quickly catching up on chat.

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Had a much better, less stressful night last night even though I fell from rank 10 to rank 11.  Had a LOT more CV's in queue last night for some reason.  What I learned last night:

Radio Location is KEY to strategic map play.  For example, I usually push the inside route to A on Sleeping Giant.  If Radio location shows the enemy location as what is represented by the Yellow Line, then I fire torps directly South as I turn Northwest and dodge.  If Radio location shows the enemy position as the White Line, then I know it is ok to go ahead and dive into A.  Without Radio Location I would have no idea where the closest enemy dd is...

 

 

SleepingG1.png

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On 8/27/2018 at 8:22 AM, Torpin said:

I would like to do a running commentary of mistakes made this season, and reflect how I can do better as a pure destroyer player this ranked season.

First off this weekend- made it to rank 8, then slid back to 10.

Forced myself not to be the first one to cap or even be close to the cap. 

This is helping a lot over last season in which I felt compelled to get in there and start the cap as soon as the map began.  Still seeing a lot of dd's rushing the cap, and getting deleted.  I am hanging back at least 11km from the cap until all radar cruisers are accounted for.  Sometimes I will "set off" the Des Moines island camping just to get him to kick his radar on, wait for it's full duration, and if there are no more radar cruisers in the area will dive into the cap during his cool down period.

These teams either follow directions or they don't.

Noticed a lot of times when the team would just split randomly for objectives, completely ignoring what was typed in chat.  Got so frustrated at one point that I disabled chat myself to cool down, and have now re-enabled it.  I think the lesson learned here is- you have to adjust to whatever the idiots on your team are going to do if you have any chance of winning (and don't take it personal that they are sending two cruisers to the safe cap when they should be contesting A).

You made it to rank 8 and those are the only "mistakes" you made?  That is truly amazing and I feel like a total loser now. Going to uninstall now.  

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A Gearing cannot outgun a Harugumo or a Khab in a 1v1...  PERIOD.

Got into a gun fight last night at less than 6km with a Khab and thought I could take him in a 1v1- I got wasted.  Came across a Haru at 6 km and couldn't disengage because of enemy radar- wasted again.  

The only way to deal with these two is to get torps off and call for backup- if you don't have backup then you are simply outmatched.  Which leads me to my next point-

Always have backup!

If you find yourself all on your own, you don't have support at all.  I know you will outrun your help a lot of the time, and you feel the need to push or to spot, but don't go too far without support.  Spotting doesn't mean get 5 or 10 km away from your bb's, it means having clear line of sight and keeping the enemy in view.  If you go all out and are in the middle of the map, when you happen to run into that sneaky shimi (or whatever) THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM is going to shoot you dead dead dead.

It's a fine line to tread between being far enough ahead to spot and to far from your support.  I am learning the hard way that sometimes I have to do giant S's to maintain speed without increasing distance.  Slowing down is also death, so always maintain speed if you can.

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7 hours ago, Torpin said:

A Gearing cannot outgun a Harugumo or a Khab in a 1v1...  PERIOD.

Got into a gun fight last night at less than 6km with a Khab and thought I could take him in a 1v1- I got wasted.  Came across a Haru at 6 km and couldn't disengage because of enemy radar- wasted again.  

The only way to deal with these two is to get torps off and call for backup- if you don't have backup then you are simply outmatched.  Which leads me to my next point-

Always have backup!

If you find yourself all on your own, you don't have support at all.  I know you will outrun your help a lot of the time, and you feel the need to push or to spot, but don't go too far without support.  Spotting doesn't mean get 5 or 10 km away from your bb's, it means having clear line of sight and keeping the enemy in view.  If you go all out and are in the middle of the map, when you happen to run into that sneaky shimi (or whatever) THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM is going to shoot you dead dead dead.

It's a fine line to tread between being far enough ahead to spot and to far from your support.  I am learning the hard way that sometimes I have to do giant S's to maintain speed without increasing distance.  Slowing down is also death, so always maintain speed if you can.

Ive used the Khab since it's initial release, and Gearings usually get wrecked buy the Khabs AP. They're such tall destroyers...

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Regarding Khaba the best way to beat it is to cut off its route to cap so you spot it before it gets into island cover.  Keep it spotted and let the team farm it.  Khaba is really only effective when you have at least three DDs on the team IMO otherwise the lack of spotting starts to hurt the teams DPM.

Shima v Khaba:

Harugumo is an interesting beast.  I feel almost zero threat in a Shima from them as long as I dont blunder around an island into them.  They are spotted far enough out they have little chance of engaging me before my team does major damage to them.  When they are spotted  you can launch predictive torps with a pretty high chance of landing hits.  The other way is to hold your torps for when they inevitably smoke up.  I've bagged about a dozen devastating strikes on smoked up Harugumo players.  Getting them off the board is critical for your teams HP pool, so be ready for it.

The number one mistake I see is players being too aggressive early in the game.  The time for pushing comes when it becomes apparent you have a numerical advantage, an HP advantage, or desperation to avoid losing the game.  If you cant point to one of those as why you need to push, cool your jets and continue to work on getting good trades from relative safety.  For DD players that means holding a good spotting position ready to run is needed to.  A good spotting position in DD heavy games is 5km in front of your team mates on likely torpedo angles.  Just be sure to angle stern to the threat, as you almost always should when trying to mitigate damage.

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Keep checking the mini-map.

Had a game last night where everyone said we were doing B to A and ignore C.  I got near A, committed to the plan, got spotted by a Shimi, and got deleted.  I looked at the mini map and where was the team?  In C.  Even though we had all agreed on a plan, almost all of the team didn't go A as planned, but went C (and didn't mention it in chat). 

So my lesson learned is ALWAYS check the mini-map before you commit!  If you are going to commit to a path, you better double check to make sure that the people are doing what they said they were going to do.  In clan battles you can communicate changes via voice comms, but in Ranked it seems that people are on their own agenda.  

Take into account which way you think the enemy will turn when making torpedo shots!

In the image below you see a typical torpedo aiming reticle, and if your target is moving from the Left to the Right, you want to shoot your second salvo taking into account which way you think they will turn. 

Some clues of the way you can predict their turn are:

  • What objective are they heading toward and show that they are committed to?
  • Is there cover nearby that they might go for?
  • Is there a natural barrier that will prevent them from turning that way?
  • Are they already under fire?  Are they trying to prevent exposing their citadel?

If you think your target will turn AWAY from you then your first shot will be slightly towards the target of the predicted path, and your second salvo will be slightly past the target of the predicted path.  This ensures that both salvos have the opportunity to hit.

If you think your target will turn TOWARDS you then your first shot is on the predicted path (if they are showing full speed- look at their smoke stack) and the second shot is adjacent to, but not overlapping your first shot on the side of the predicted path nearest to your target.  In the case of the example below this would be to the left of the predicted path.

Last but not least- always check speed and angle of the target.  If they are not going full speed then you have to adjust your shot to assume that they will accelerate (especially in ambush situations when you shoot on a target that is going to panic- they are going to try to accelerate FORWARD because reverse is sooo slow).

And the only reason I would use wide spread is if you are in a close range engagement against a battleship or carrier.  Maintain speed (DON'T SLOW DOWN) if you're going to ambush a battleship as you will outrun his ability to keep his guns on you!

EVERYTHING ABOVE gets thrown out of the window if your target commits to a natural chokepoint.  If you know they are going to pass between two islands or they are running for a hiding spot, time your shot and ignore your aiming reticle!  Let the map help you corral your target into that perfect torpedo ambush!  Just know that if they spot your torps they will accelerate forward if possible.  If they are nose in (ha ha!) then they have nowhere to accelerate to!  Those have to be my favorite shots, and a lot of times I will wait 10 or 20 seconds to see if my target is going to make a mistake and commit to a line that is going to limit themselves and make my torpedo shot that much more effective.  If they are nose on to me then IF POSSIBLE I will try to go for a better angle shot (like a broadside) so that more than one torp will hit instead of maybe only one torp hit for a head on target.

torpedo shot.jpg

Edited by Torpin
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When in doubt, go back to your team.

If you find yourself wondering where you should go- keep spotting, but head back towards the majority of the friendlies.  This allows you to smoke up buddies, call on buddies for help against targets, combine your anti-air capabilities, etc.  Also, you know there are no lurking dd's right next to friendly's because they would be spotted!  What you definitely SHOULD NOT do when in doubt is be aggressive.  

Count the enemy ships on the mini-map, and with that information you can make educated decisions on whether a cap is safe or not; but when in doubt go back to your team.

Edited by Torpin
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Give the team an idea of where you are going using map coordinates.

When starting a map, it is a good idea to be very specific if you have the same plan in mind for your opening move.  For example on the map below (Mountain Range) when I am in my Z-52 I like to go to E8 and sonar the enemy dd at F8.  So what I will type in chat is "Going to push C HARD, will sonar at E8- please be ready to shoot the enemy dd."  Hopefully my team will spread out and be ready to engage the enemy dd hiding behind his island during the 2 minutes I have him spotted/sonared, but if they don't I am usually toast.  Which brings me to another point-

Do not leave cover until you are absolutely sure another radar isn't going to pop.

There are many times when I am committed and hiding behind a rock and the radar spotting me (finally) goes off and I get ready to move to make my escape, when...  pop goes a second radar!  If you are moving and momentum takes you out from behind your lovely cover you are toast!  I have learned the hard way to wait 10 seconds to see if someone else is going to hit radar on me.

 

wows mountain range.jpg

Edited by Torpin
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Radar YY is very very situational.

I have been rotating between the Gearing, Z-52, Shimi, and the Yueyang.  I find that the Z-52 compels me to get into the cap early and contest that cap by using Sonar.  But when I run the radar YY, I am not nearly as aggressive. 

On Sleeping Giant I still attempt the East entrance of A, but in Yueyang you can't really anti torp the enemy dd coming up the 5 line.  You have to depend more on support ships to help you kill that enemy dd.  On Mountain Range, I find myself going on the outside of C to catch the enemy dd in cap.  Needless to say, the Yueyang is very situational, and probably the hardest to play in my rotation.  

Some mistakes I have made:

  • try to get in position to catch an enemy dd in cap (in smoke) and get caught overextended in the middle of the map.
  • chasing down an enemy dd with radar and overextending out of range of my support.
  • using my radar before my friendly cruisers have an angle to shoot on my exposed target.

And it all comes back to mini-map awareness.  You have to constantly make sure you have support and your support has good shooting angles before you pop your very limited radar.  If your help is not in a position to take advantage of your short duration radar, then in most cases I have learned to save it.  If you expose someone in a cap you can sometimes scare them out, but that is the only reason I would waste a radar without having backup.

Also, I would say to make sure you have the radar range option checked on your mini map options.

If anyone else has some radar Yueyang advice it would be much appreciated because I am still struggling with this boat A LOT!

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Don't Lose Hope.

It's sad to say, but if you only play destroyers in ranked it is very very hard to rank out.  Most people that rank out play cruisers because their dps can save them a star when they lose.  Destroyers are hit or miss (literally) with damage because torpedoes are just not consistent.  Until Wargaming adjusts dd xp for ranked, dd's will always be the hardest way to reach rank 1.

Go into ranked and stay in ranked play because:

  • It's making you a better player.
  • It's a good money maker.
  • It's helping you prepare for clan battles.
  • It's an excellent way to grind out captain xp.

So even though I made it up to 7, and slipped all the way back down to 12, I continue!  I hope you do as well!

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A Kilometer Too Far...  (or Don't Cross that Gap!)

On Sea of Fortune again last night and made a fatal error...  We were down 2 ships and they had all the caps.  I came in from the North between the caps and took A/B.   When running from Cruiser C and under fire from Cruiser A, I decided to follow the green arrow to find cover.  I knew I couldn't go North because Cruiser C was really hammering me.  Also,   I really wanted to torp Cruiser A...  What I didn't realize was that Cruiser B is waiting for me to cross that open gap and BLAP- back to port I go.  What I should have done is stay in the nearest cover until I have an idea of what is there before crossing any gap (the yellow line).  If I had waited at least 20 seconds more I would have had my torps back and would have at least taken Cruiser B with me.  Lesson Learned.  We still won, as they panicked and rushed back into A/B and we got them as they came in one at a time and tried to cap with cruisers.

 

TL:DR- when running, stay in the closest cover possible because you don't know what else is going to shoot you.

SoF2.png

Edited by Torpin
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Made it to rank 9 then slipped to 12.  Got angry.  Got frustrated.  Matchmaking several times had radar on the other team only.  It seems matchmaking is a bit biased.  When winning your put on winning teams, when losing, well...  you get put with the guys that aren't doing so well.  Beginning to wonder if it is even possible for a normal player to rank out in a destroyer.

Looked back at my stats and I am having considerably better success in my Shimi, then my Gearing, Z-52, or Yueyang.  I think it's my playstyle of trying to stay out of harm's way while killing big targets.

Lesson learned last night- don't stay on a losing streak.  If you are losing, go do something else for a bit before you come back to it.  Frustration leads to more frustration.

Edited by Torpin
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I believe it is still possible to rank out only in a DD. It requires patience, perseverance and a thick skin.  And, it requires capitalizing on a winning streak and minimizing losing  streaks. I try to stop after 2 losses to minimize damage, and also based on how well folks are playing on a given session.  Last night I went 3-0 and stopped because teams weren’t working well. Tonight 2-4 with a break in the middle and stopped after saving a star and I stopped to cut my losses.  Could’ve been 4-2 had teams worked better together... still a month to go  

 

 

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What's more important, first cap or first kill?

Well, it depends on the map.  Some maps give you an obvious free cap.  But I am finding out that it really is the first kill that matters most in ranked.  If you can secure the first kill on an enemy radar cruiser, dd, or whatever, the momentum swings in your favor.  I started to really concentrate on that last night and had 3 games in a row with 100k+ damage and 2 wins/ 1 loss but I kept my star.  I recommend setting yourself up in a position to secure the first kill while staying a safe distance from radar cruisers.  With RDF, if you see the closest exposed ship and your rdf is not pointing that way then you know to keep at least a 90 degree angle from that unspotted dd.  I do this so I can turn away from incoming torps quickly and possibly stay undetected.

 

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The Surgeon General says second hand smoke is cancer.

Got a 'twofer' this morning, and thought that this was just common sense.  If you are in smoke, wailing away at your dps meter trying to save your star, you are going to get torped.  So was in a ranked battle this morning, there was a dd in smoke just spammin away- I send torps and it must have been the blue light special at Kmart, cause I get TWO dd's for the price of one!  The second dd apparently thought "Hey, let's have a dpm party!" as he edged into what he thought was a safe smoke...  

Also, I dodged this morning and popped smoke, my friendly wooster thinks- "Wow, free smoke, gotta get me some dpm action so I can save my star!"   ... and deleted.  I don't understand why people think smoke is safe?  

Smoke is the biggest torpedo magnet in the game!  Where there is smoke, there are torps!

Please stay outta my smoke (if you are on my team)!  Otherwise, red ships,  you guys just crowd in that smoke as much as you want. 

Cause I gotta present for ya!

c4.jpg

Edited by Torpin
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On 9/13/2018 at 5:04 AM, Torpin said:

What's more important, first cap or first kill?

Well, it depends on the map.

Kills > caps!  On any map, whether ranked or randoms.  Especially early game before -all- ships are spotted, it’s best to stay out and spot first, not even shoot your guns as a DD.  If the enemy is spotted and you aren’t, you can ambush and get a good trade or even a kill.  THEN capping is possible.  You have to wait for the right moment and team momentum. 

Edited by n00bot

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On 9/7/2018 at 5:57 AM, Torpin said:

Don't Lose Hope.

One day earlier this week was brutal.  My WR was 35% on 20 games.  Tons of losses where our team on the “other” side of the map got rekt. Even if I did well, it didn’t matter. And throws! Several won games where players made dumb mistakes, even at R5, like shooting instead of staying silent and winning on points. One game we lost 998-1000 because the Stalingrad (I thought you were supposed to be good) didn’t head straight for the cap but angled slightly.

And as you point out, as a DD you are rarely saving a star to make up for it. It can be infuriating seeing the Yammy or Zao that didn’t help the team get the no-star-loss by farming damage off BB’s instead of helping you kill the enemy DD that capped everything.

I kept telling myself that these things can happen to either team, and eventually my luck would change.  It did.  The next day started with four wins in a row, and a few games later, I ranked out.  Don’t lose hope!

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