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Turbotush

Why CV's suck

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Just had a T-10 match with CV's.  Our stellar ship killing sea eagle had a massive WR of 35%!  While the luckless enemy CV was in the 65% WR range (the noob).  Guess who ruled the sky's!  Ok, we lost.....in a most epic and big way.

And to think, I just started spending money on this game again.

 

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What was said screwball's overall WR?

I have a 57% WR and a 25% in the Montana because I just can't buy a win in that thing and not get focus fired by everyone and their mother.

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If you lost like that then chances are you would have still lost even if you cut the CVs out 

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7 minutes ago, Psycodiver said:

If you lost like that then chances are you would have still lost even if you cut the CVs out 

This above all is why the CV problem will not get fixed.  When good players cant recognize how much a CV influences a match, and how bad it is for most of the players on the team with a less then efficient CV driver, and defend the miss match.

I don't know how many times you have been in a CV miss match, but I can guarantee that if we went back and looked at all of the ones you and I have been in, you would see that most of the lower skilled CV's that where on your team contributed to a loss more often then a win.

So my team basically deserved the loss because why?  I didn't derp to bad, and I didn't see to much derping from my team mates, I did see a lot of planes though.  As a matter of fact I saw a lot of planes just above me, red ones.  The planes from my CV, the planes that could cover me, where getting straffed out of the sky!

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Shoot i've had CV players flat out apologize at the start of the match, saying things like, "sorry, i'm not very good at carriers". 

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop?  

It's what I do.

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36 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Shoot i've had CV players flat out apologize at the start of the match, saying things like, "sorry, i'm not very good at carriers". 

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop?  

It's what I do.

I've done that.  The only reason I played the ship was missions for other things.  For a spotting mission, CVs simply cannot be beat.

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Growing increasingly ticked at these low skill buffoons at high tiers, especially when they are in CVs. The nub who free xpd a Yammie at least can draw fire and distract. When a CV WR is that low they are actually griefing their team. Where exactly is the reward mechanism? I'm a 56% player, and if I'm in a ship I just cant make work I dont use it.

I suspect a lot of them are buying accounts because if you look at their ship ledger it usually doesnt make sense. 

Needs to be an option like chat bans where if enough team mates vote (at least half) that CV gets tossed into co-op for awhile. 

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Shoot i've had CV players flat out apologize at the start of the match, saying things like, "sorry, i'm not very good at carriers". 

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop?  

It's what I do.

It would be nice if players in other ships did the same thing.  But that is not going to happen.  I am not going to get worked up over why.  It is a game. Yes Ranked in Competitive but hey so are people in randoms.  Deal with it or you could go find another game.

Edited by GrimmeReaper
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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Shoot i've had CV players flat out apologize at the start of the match, saying things like, "sorry, i'm not very good at carriers". 

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop?  

It's what I do.

You can't practice against thinking opposition in coop.  Also, the enemy CVs in coop don't have captain skills, so they're predictable and weaker.  It has to be done in random.

Now, why someone would take a ship they suck at into ranked where winning is the only thing that matters?  I'm guessing it's because the universe is not without a sense of humor.  

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Wow, that topic was misleading.

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1 minute ago, Hatework said:

You can't practice against thinking opposition in coop.  Also, the enemy CVs in coop don't have captain skills, so they're predictable and weaker.  It has to be done in random.

Now, why someone would take a ship they suck at into ranked where winning is the only thing that matters?  I'm guessing it's because the universe is not without a sense of humor.  

This. 

In co-op, I have had a loss in a CV game once.  And it wasn't due to CV play (everything with a torpedo was a bot, and our bots lost).

 

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It doesn't help when cruiser captains take MB module over aux module--HE spam is very effective at killing the deadly mid-range AA on even Worchester.

However, Random is open to all. No such thing as minimum standards other than have a captain, ship, and willingness to play. On losing teams, yeah, I've felt a skill-based MM would be appropriate, but WG has no obligation to fix it.

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Shoot i've had CV players flat out apologize at the start of the match, saying things like, "sorry, i'm not very good at carriers". 

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop?  

 

Had that happen recently (in Random; I don't play Ranked... not even sure why I'm reading about it). CV driver apologizes at start, saying he's brand new. Normally if I don't turn off chat, I just ignore it. But I couldn't help myself. Using the friendliest, most diplomatic words I could think of, I suggested to him that he really needs to play Co-op until he gains some expertise with his CV.

His response was that he was sorry, but he just had to play against humans. As if playing against bots was demeaning or something. Of course, we lost this match. The skill of the CV driver has more influence on the outcome of a battle than any other ship type. When there are two CV drivers that really know what they're doing, that's a very powerful combo.

But our guy who couldn't lower himself to train against bots, well... it's funny what some people think is too demeaning or embarrassing. I mean, when I was a kid, I didn't want to wear gym shorts for PE class. But I did it anyway. Why? Because it was a rule. There should be a rule in WoWs that new CV drivers must practice in Co-op and exhibit some form of competency before graduating to Random. 

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52 minutes ago, Hatework said:

You can't practice against thinking opposition in coop. 

No, but you can learn the basics of how your own ship works... especially for CVs which is a completely different interface. How the opposition thinks is several steps down the list of things a new CV driver needs to learn. Let him sink bots -- repeatedly, until he becomes consistent -- and then he will be ready to learn how to play against thinking opposition in Random. 

I cringe every time I see someone saying "how do I launch planes?" in Random. That guy should be in Co-op.

Edited by Ziggy_Sprague
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37 minutes ago, GrimmeReaper said:

It would be nice if players in other ships did the same thing.  But that is not going to happen.  I am not going to get worked up over why.  It is a game. Yes Ranked in Competitive but hey so are people in randoms.  Deal with it or you could go find another game.

Wow I like how you turned a comment into a get the he** out of Dodge posting. Let me clarify for you:

1. I'm not the OP. 
2. I explained how I deal with it - I practice in coop. 
3. Where the **** am I worked up about it here? I simply stated what I have seen happen along with my suggestion.

You CAN practice in coop, especially higher tier skills like strafing, manual drops. The individual of which I spoke did not even know the basics of spotting, bombing, dropping torps - in a tier ten match. 

If you don't have a more positive comment then please, deal with not commenting or go find another forum. Geezoh. 

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1 hour ago, Hatework said:

You can't practice against thinking opposition in coop.  Also, the enemy CVs in coop don't have captain skills, so they're predictable and weaker.  It has to be done in random.

Agree absolutely. But who is going to take a carrier into Randoms to try to learn against human players, when other human players are going to get abusive for it? I'm scared enough to do that at Tier 4, though I agree that low-PvP-WR players who drop into Ranked really aren't making the right decision. I have played ONE PvP carrier game in my Langley after a long streak of wins in co-op, and my team got slaughtered. Could I have changed that? Probably.

It's like the old problem of the teenager trying to find work: "You can't get a job without experience, but you can't get experience without a job."

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2 hours ago, Turbotush said:

This above all is why the CV problem will not get fixed.  When good players cant recognize how much a CV influences a match, and how bad it is for most of the players on the team with a less then efficient CV driver, and defend the miss match.

I don't know how many times you have been in a CV miss match, but I can guarantee that if we went back and looked at all of the ones you and I have been in, you would see that most of the lower skilled CV's that where on your team contributed to a loss more often then a win.

So my team basically deserved the loss because why?  I didn't derp to bad, and I didn't see to much derping from my team mates, I did see a lot of planes though.  As a matter of fact I saw a lot of planes just above me, red ones.  The planes from my CV, the planes that could cover me, where getting straffed out of the sky!

I've rarely run into a match where a CV absolutely dominates the match anymore, back during the first year of the game it was different. Most CVs are easy to deal with right now as they stand yet

 

The players that complain the most about CVs are probably the same players that complain about the old IJNs DDs because they can't seem to understand sailing in reverse, sailing in a straight line, or island camping makes they easy targets

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8 hours ago, Turbotush said:

Just had a T-10 match with CV's.  Our stellar ship killing sea eagle had a massive WR of 35%!  While the luckless enemy CV was in the 65% WR range (the noob).  Guess who ruled the sky's!  Ok, we lost.....in a most epic and big way.

And to think, I just started spending money on this game again.

 

No Sniveling good grief...wipe your nose jr.

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2 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop? 

Because the red AI CV's are better than 99% of human CV.

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3 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Shoot i've had CV players flat out apologize at the start of the match, saying things like, "sorry, i'm not very good at carriers". 

You have to ask why they would practice in random and/or ranked then - why not practice in coop?  

It's what I do.

It's easier to predict where a human player will go so it is easier to manual drop them, you can't do the same with bots unless you only do auto drops. I learned all of my CV Tactics in Random, I've been using the same tactics since then. Sometimes you can only learn in the heat of combat instead of simulation.

  • Bots aren't going to snipe a CV
  • Bot CVs aren't going to snipe a CV
  • Bots may not ever even see a CV

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One thing I'd note is it's deceptively easy to get a really bad WR in CV's.

If you're decisively substandard BB player, you can still manage something like a 45-48% win rate. You aren't a powerhouse, but quite often your team mates can carry you to victory.

With CV's it's REALLY difficult to win a game if the enemy CV has an upper hand. You can be perfectly decent, 90% as good as he is, and you'll very rarely win against him.

So don't hate that 40% CV guy THAT much. It's a symptom of the general problem with CV's -- it's largely a one-vs-one matchup, the outcome of which has a massive influence on the game.

And no, practicing against bot CV's doesn't help you beyond teaching basic controls. The bot CV's do none of the tactics a halfway decent human does.

Edited by jss78
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For 65% Captains to exist the game requires 35% Captains to also exist. 

Though I prefer to get the 65%'ers on my team. 

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37 minutes ago, jss78 said:

One thing I'd note is it's deceptively easy to get a really bad WR in CV's.

If you're decisively substandard BB player, you can still manage something like a 45-48% win rate. You aren't a powerhouse, but quite often your team mates can carry you to victory.

With CV's it's REALLY difficult to win a game if the enemy CV has an upper hand. You can be perfectly decent, 90% as good as he is, and you'll very rarely win against him.

So don't hate that 40% CV guy THAT much. It's a symptom of the general problem with CV's -- it's largely a one-vs-one matchup, the outcome of which has a massive influence on the game.

And no, practicing against bot CV's doesn't help you beyond teaching basic controls. The bot CV's do none of the tactics a halfway decent human does.

I will usually "teach" other CV players in game, ally or not. I always enjoy a good CV battle and I generally would like the enemy to have decent air support too.

  • Learn to move CVs, you'd be amazed how much better you do
  • Keep on following my bait why don't you
  • Learn to rearm CV, there is always time to rearm when the enemy is rearming
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It's probably all gonna be moot as soon as we here about the update this week. 

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