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Torgamous

AP Bombs are WAY too OP...

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Just had a tier 10 game, with an opposing Lexington.  1 Dive bomber strike completely took a Bismarck from full health to 0 in 1 hit, no detonation, just bomb citadel damage.  Sorry, but this is just way too unbalanced for fair play.  The problem is the tighter drop reticle removes the RNG from the game for CVs.  Not really fair when the rest of us are subject to RNG with every shot.  Not saying AP bombs should not be in the game, but they should have the same drop reticle as HE bombs.  You should just have to choose whether you want lesser guaranteed damage with the HE splash or risk it for less hits but higher damage chance. 

As it is, it is just too unfair.

OK, done ranting, begin the trolling....

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What? Another thread on AP bombs?

It's almost like there's something wrong them....

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42 minutes ago, Torgamous said:

Just had a tier 10 game, with an opposing Lexington.  1 Dive bomber strike completely took a Bismarck from full health to 0 in 1 hit, no detonation, just bomb citadel damage.  Sorry, but this is just way too unbalanced for fair play.  The problem is the tighter drop reticle removes the RNG from the game for CVs.  Not really fair when the rest of us are subject to RNG with every shot.  Not saying AP bombs should not be in the game, but they should have the same drop reticle as HE bombs.  You should just have to choose whether you want lesser guaranteed damage with the HE splash or risk it for less hits but higher damage chance. 

As it is, it is just too unfair.

OK, done ranting, begin the trolling....

AP bombs are ironically better against cruisers than the BBs they are "designed" to counter.

Aside from GZ ap bombs, USN AP bombs are kinda trash.

You have a small target selection (a few high tier cruisers that probably have dfaa and insane values, german bbs, maybe an IJN bb or two).

You cannot DOT stack with AP, so if you get into a game with no good targets enjoy doing nothing all game.

Forget bombing DDs (a huge downside of AP bombs).

You effectively limit your all around decent bombs to be ridiculously situational good bombs.

Balanced? Perhaps not. OP? Far from it.

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considering Flamu or Flambass just mentioned them as one of the only ways to get bow on Worchester and DM and Moskva and Stalingrad killed. (bow on to mitigate vs bbs) (the things countering themselves is not a counter), I'd rather see more of them in the game. 

 

More AP bombs please. 

Also, WG: balance is plain awful. 

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Also click of a button to delete a ship. Sounds very fair. I've seen this before. 

Just counterplay it. 

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2 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

considering Flamu or Flambass just mentioned them as one of the only ways to get bow on Worchester and DM and Moskva and Stalingrad killed. (bow on to mitigate vs bbs) (the things countering themselves is not a counter), I'd rather see more of them in the game. 

 

More AP bombs please. 

Also, WG: balance is plain awful. 

... Not HE spam, aiming AP for the USCLA and aiming at the superstructure of the RUCA, torpedoes, while the ships have stupidly high AA that will still wipe those AP bombers out or just make it unfair for those who chose DFAA or a Cruiser in general and end up getting point-instakilled, and with AP bombs useful for them but screwed against many other ships, making them selective and thus a horrible experience depending on MM luck and target selection?

Please stop. AP Bombs aren't OP but they aren't balanced. 

 

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Why did you wander away from an AA cruiser? With what the team comps have been lately you should have been surrounded by American cruisers.

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14 minutes ago, Troa_Barton said:

Why did you wander away from an AA cruiser? With what the team comps have been lately you should have been surrounded by American cruisers.

oooh this

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1 hour ago, BlailBlerg said:

Also click of a button to delete a ship. Sounds very fair. I've seen this before. 

Just counterplay it. 

Or try the tested and always reliable "just don't be there in the first place"

That one is my favourite. 

Adapt, overcome, chew bubblegum.

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3 hours ago, Torgamous said:

Just had a tier 10 game, with an opposing Lexington.  1 Dive bomber strike completely took a Bismarck from full health to 0 in 1 hit, no detonation, just bomb citadel damage.  Sorry, but this is just way too unbalanced for fair play.  The problem is the tighter drop reticle removes the RNG from the game for CVs.  Not really fair when the rest of us are subject to RNG with every shot.  Not saying AP bombs should not be in the game, but they should have the same drop reticle as HE bombs.  You should just have to choose whether you want lesser guaranteed damage with the HE splash or risk it for less hits but higher damage chance. 

As it is, it is just too unfair.

OK, done ranting, begin the trolling....

The AP bombs can richochet unlike HE. However I both agree and disagree with you. 

I agree AP bombs are OP, even as a CV player, and even I have to agree between that and manual drop both AP bombs and torps need a damage nerf due to high accuracy. 

But, if were going with an drop circle change, then they don't need the same as HE, they need to TRADE with HE. The most powerful bombs in the game, USN's 1000 lb bombs, because citadels are gone from DD's and there's nothing else weak enough to eat a citadel from HE bombs, is actually 3564 damage (33% of the listed max of 10800). And that assumes the bomb actually registers a full out penetration. Even applying the AP circle to ships tiers 5-7 is only 2475 damage. And while great to hit BB's and some larger cruisers still not always ideal for cruisers and never really for DD's. Actually make HE bombs truly useful for the first time since I think it was Beta when they drastically nerfed the accuracy cause DD's were getting one shot killed a little more than occasionally. 

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Wish I could give credit to the player he was a damn good CV main...   Anyways AP bombs + Midway = deleted easily.     Almost full HP Henri 2 AP bomber squads dropped on him 1 shot completely deleted her.    No det a straight kill.   He said he had defensive fire active.      I am in a full AA speced Des Memes and he drops on me.  I had about 1/3 of my HP.   DF was on cool down.   Deleted easily.   Even the player in ranked said "NOT OP performs as expected" or something to that effect.   He knew it was pretty [edited].   But its ranked, we play to win so I do not blame him for using it

I honestly like AP bombs as it makes the bombers feel usefull its both OVER and Under powered.   It does nothing on certain ships and all but deletes others.   Just so odd.

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3 hours ago, Troa_Barton said:

Why did you wander away from an AA cruiser? With what the team comps have been lately you should have been surrounded by American cruisers.

This idea right here, while historically accurate, does not apply to the WoWs game very often. 

For most Battleships when they are in trouble with a CV the AA cruiser either isn't near them or Isn't In The Game. 

But lets say you're Battleship does see a Cruiser with good AA. If the AA Cruiser stays with the BB it will most likely be to far back to do any meaningful damage and a Good CV will avoid those two ships. If the BB follows the Cruiser to where the Cruiser is most effective it will be focused down by either Torpedoes or Fires. Thats not even mentioning how effective a BB would be hiding behind an Island its AA cruiser is using to avoid out right Deletion from all that incoming AP. Another factor is a Cruiser using its maneuverability and speed to avoid incoming fire, two things BBs don't normally have. So the AA cruiser is running and dodging all that incoming and the next thing the BB knows its AA support is a map square away when the planes show up. 

This still doesn't address the issue of "Look there are CVs the match and no cruiser with strong AA near me or No AA Ship In The Game".

Yes AP bombs are over powered and need a Nerf. 

CVs are either Over Powered as HECK or under powered to be useless and it really depends on the potato at the controls. 

OP my advice is either get a friend to be your dedicated AA shield or Drop out of the Battle cue when you see Sky Cancer waiting for battle. 

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AP bombs only seem OP when they're very effective.

Only DDs seem to be reasonably safe. I citadelled a Cleveland last time in my Essex.

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6 hours ago, Torgamous said:

Just had a tier 10 game, with an opposing Lexington.  1 Dive bomber strike completely took a Bismarck from full health to 0 in 1 hit, no detonation, just bomb citadel damage.  Sorry, but this is just way too unbalanced for fair play.  The problem is the tighter drop reticle removes the RNG from the game for CVs.  Not really fair when the rest of us are subject to RNG with every shot.  Not saying AP bombs should not be in the game, but they should have the same drop reticle as HE bombs.  You should just have to choose whether you want lesser guaranteed damage with the HE splash or risk it for less hits but higher damage chance. 

As it is, it is just too unfair.

OK, done ranting, begin the trolling....

What makes you think WG cares about "fair play" at all? There are numerous examples to support the opposite. MM, Stalingrad, Radar, CVs are admittedly so broken they have to be entirely reworked but they're still in the game, just to name a few.

They even admit some of the ships they removed for being "OP", aren't, which means it's about driving sales. WG cares about their bottom line, how they make the decisions they do in relation to that is a mystery and often counter intuitive especially to an American.

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4 hours ago, Troa_Barton said:

Why did you wander away from an AA cruiser? With what the team comps have been lately you should have been surrounded by American cruisers.

stop this "why don't you..." argument, do you understand "game balance" concept? how about if my BB has 24 guns that can instant delete your CV, I can also say why don't you stay away from me or stick with 2 dds? see the stupidity of the argument?

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lol.

Watch AP bombs get addressed and not DD performance which has been the lowest of all ship types since beta.. It is almost like, "can't have anything that hurts BBs in game".

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4 hours ago, w4spl3g said:

What makes you think WG cares about "fair play" at all? There are numerous examples to support the opposite. MM, Stalingrad, Radar, CVs are admittedly so broken they have to be entirely reworked but they're still in the game, just to name a few.

They even admit some of the ships they removed for being "OP", aren't, which means it's about driving sales. WG cares about their bottom line, how they make the decisions they do in relation to that is a mystery and often counter intuitive especially to an American.

CV rework is to address the fact that its an ignored class. They're trying to address the top down clicky gameplay and turn it into more action gameplay. If you think CV wont be able to delete ships after the rework I think you're in for a rude awakening.

 

 

These threads are always so hypocritical. BB deletes cruiser or dd? No drama. A CV manages a very lucky RNG roll and deletes a BB? The world is ending.

Edited by ksix

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4 hours ago, w4spl3g said:

 MM, Stalingrad, Radar, CVs are admittedly so broken they have to be entirely reworked but they're still in the game, just to name a 

I have the Stalingrad and it's no where near as strong as you're making it out to be. It's a great ship, but has glaring weaknesses.

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5 hours ago, Reymu said:

AP bombs only seem OP when they're very effective.

Only DDs seem to be reasonably safe. I citadelled a Cleveland last time in my Essex.

Some weeks ago I was playing a rare game with my Kaga.  Top tier and I hit an Emerald with my Dive Bomber, citadeling it.  With HE bombs.  Much laughter ensued! :Smile_teethhappy:

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100-0 in my Henri other night from Midway AP bombs.  3 minutes into the game.

Logged off.

Watched Tag.  Pretty funny movie.

Thanks WG.

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1 hour ago, Lord_Vakko said:

100-0 in my Henri other night from Midway AP bombs.  3 minutes into the game.

Logged off.

Watched Tag.  Pretty funny movie.

Thanks WG.

I'll bet you yolo'd off within 2 minutes and just got unlucky. Besides, Henri's not known for being a nasty AA ship like Minotaur. Just need to play better next time.

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9 hours ago, RedSeaBear said:

This idea right here, while historically accurate, does not apply to the WoWs game very often. 

For most Battleships when they are in trouble with a CV the AA cruiser either isn't near them or Isn't In The Game. 

But lets say you're Battleship does see a Cruiser with good AA. If the AA Cruiser stays with the BB it will most likely be to far back to do any meaningful damage and a Good CV will avoid those two ships. If the BB follows the Cruiser to where the Cruiser is most effective it will be focused down by either Torpedoes or Fires. Thats not even mentioning how effective a BB would be hiding behind an Island its AA cruiser is using to avoid out right Deletion from all that incoming AP. Another factor is a Cruiser using its maneuverability and speed to avoid incoming fire, two things BBs don't normally have. So the AA cruiser is running and dodging all that incoming and the next thing the BB knows its AA support is a map square away when the planes show up. 

This still doesn't address the issue of "Look there are CVs the match and no cruiser with strong AA near me or No AA Ship In The Game".

Yes AP bombs are over powered and need a Nerf. 

CVs are either Over Powered as HECK or under powered to be useless and it really depends on the potato at the controls. 

OP my advice is either get a friend to be your dedicated AA shield or Drop out of the Battle cue when you see Sky Cancer waiting for battle. 

Its not hard to stay near a cruiser and still be safe. Any good AA cruiser will position themselves where they can protect the most ships and still be in a good position to deal damage, planes are worth a lot to shoot down. They are the squishy ones, they dictate the position not the BB. If you push past out of AA cover knowing full well that there is a cv in the game and you're the prime target that's your own fault.
Your argument does have merit if there are no AA cruisers on your team, which is unlikely given how good they are or those players are bad at positioning.

8 hours ago, Happy668 said:

stop this "why don't you..." argument, do you understand "game balance" concept? how about if my BB has 24 guns that can instant delete your CV, I can also say why don't you stay away from me or stick with 2 dds? see the stupidity of the argument?

Yes I do understand game balance, do you understand defensive fire on cruisers and how it counters planes?

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On 8/26/2018 at 6:56 PM, Troa_Barton said:

Its not hard to stay near a cruiser and still be safe. Any good AA cruiser will position themselves where they can protect the most ships and still be in a good position to deal damage, planes are worth a lot to shoot down. They are the squishy ones, they dictate the position not the BB. If you push past out of AA cover knowing full well that there is a cv in the game and you're the prime target that's your own fault.
Your argument does have merit if there are no AA cruisers on your team, which is unlikely given how good they are or those players are bad at positioning.

Yes I do understand game balance, do you understand defensive fire on cruisers and how it counters planes?

Let's see... Defensive fire... that thing I have to trade Hydroacoustic for?  Hrm... Destroyers and torpedoes are in every match.  Carriers are 1 in 20?  Yes!  I should go with DF!

Gonna do the math here... Midway's AP bombers have 2070HP.  Henri AA does 596 DPS combined (DF activated) at 4.5km.  That means I can kill 1 AP bomber every 3.5 seconds when DF is activated.  Hopefully, those bombers come at me 1 at a time very slowly but not too slowly so my DF doesn't run out.

Thanks for the advice, Barton!

Edited by Lord_Vakko

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3 minutes ago, Lord_Vakko said:

Let's see... Defensive fire... that thing I have to trade Hydroacoustic for?  Hrm... Destroyers and torpedoes are in every match.  Carriers are 1 in 20?  Yes!  I should go with DF!

Gonna do the math here... Midway's AP bombers have 2070HP.  Henri AA does 596 DPS combined (DF activated) at 4.5km.  That means I can kill 1 AP bomber every 3.5 seconds when DF is activated.  Hopefully, those bombers come at me 1 at a time very slowly but not too slowly so my DF doesn't run out.

Thanks for the advice, Barton!

You know there's a ship that has both hydro and defensive AA right?

You might have heard of it, it's called the Worcester. Oh and you know the USN light cruiser branch in general, those ships that are renown for their AA prowess.

The advice given is for scenarios where CVs are present.

You're welcome :)

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1 minute ago, Troa_Barton said:

You know there's a ship that has both hydro and defensive AA right?

You might have heard of it, it's called the Worcester. Oh and you know the USN light cruiser branch in general, those ships that are renown for their AA prowess.

The advice given is for scenarios where CVs are present.

You're welcome :)

I have a wooster.

But I SPECIFICALLY said my Henri went 100-0 from AP bombs and you suggested I use defensive fire.

But it would super awesome if I could switch out my ship once I saw that a CV was present in my match.  Can you explain how to do that?

Loading screen shows both teams.

And then I do what?

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