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CarbonButtprint

Harugumo: Double steering gears?

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My last two games ended in me getting killed in under 2 minutes by random walls of skill. I wasn't spotted, wasn't RPFed, just murdered by torps (once by gearing, once by shima). I wasn't even going where DDs would normally go, I was far away from the team on a flank on the second occasion (because I was trying to avoid a random wall again). Both times my ship hadn't even started turning before I got killed. Should I give up concealment for rudder shift or am I just plain unlucky?

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Vigilance is like mandatory on akizuki and harugumo. Part of why I think the changes were dumb. 

Do you have that? 

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1 minute ago, BlailBlerg said:

Vigilance is like mandatory on akizuki and harugumo. Part of why I think the changes were dumb. 

Do you have that? 

No, I would have to give up either concealment, IFHE, or AR. 

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Just now, CarbonButtprint said:

No, I would have to give up either concealment, IFHE, or AR. 

What is your build?

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Pt

ls

vigi

ifhe

aft

ar

bft or SE

this is the order I’d take for gunboat. With some leeway on when to or if to get SE

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5 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

My last two games ended in me getting killed in under 2 minutes by random walls of skill. I wasn't spotted, wasn't RPFed, just murdered by torps (once by gearing, once by shima). I wasn't even going where DDs would normally go, I was far away from the team on a flank on the second occasion (because I was trying to avoid a random wall again). Both times my ship hadn't even started turning before I got killed. Should I give up concealment for rudder shift or am I just plain unlucky?

Unlucky.  No rudder shift is going to change that horrid turning radius.

As for SE, it is absolutely mandatory on the Haragumo.  This ship eats damage like no other DD. 

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Concealment surivival built even easier 

pt

ls

vigi/SE

CE

IFHE

SE/vigi

AR

Though idk if you need IFHE or RL more. 

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Yeah sadly. Even though there are tons of options for this ship the whole build is generally shoring up the critical weaknesses of the line. 

Though id day also that likely means there’s strengths here worth working with. 

Though im still contending that Akizuki mobility nerf was awfully uncomfortable 

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29 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

What is your build?

PT, LS, BFT, IFHE, CE, AR. Planning on either SE or vigilance for the last 3 but that's a long way out. Maybe I can play with builds with the CB reset. Are those unlimited resets or just one per ship?

 

26 minutes ago, Uber_Ghost said:

As for SE, it is absolutely mandatory on the Haragumo.  This ship eats damage like no other DD. 

It isn't the poke damage from cruisers and battleships, or the knife fight damage, it's the torp one shots that I'm having problems with. SE won't do much good against a wall of shima torps. 

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This is why I don't think the ship needs nerfing, people just need to learn to play against it. 

 

The ship is only OP against baddies. 

 

Once it is spotted or its position is known, other DDs can torp it into the ground and it can't do anything about it.

Edited by Slumlord_Cheeto
  • Cool 1

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14 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

PT, LS, BFT, IFHE, CE, AR. Planning on either SE or vigilance for the last 3 but that's a long way out. Maybe I can play with builds with the CB reset. Are those unlimited resets or just one per ship?

 

It isn't the poke damage from cruisers and battleships, or the knife fight damage, it's the torp one shots that I'm having problems with. SE won't do much good against a wall of shima torps. 

I think you have to make compromises: 

first it’s facicious I think to assume that torps insta end you: usually it should take more han 1 torp to kill you. Either by taking SE or by avoiding taking too much other dmg. I think Shona torps are 21k dmg? And haruguumo should have more hp than that. And I think being clipped on the front or back should reduce dmg?? 

Other than that vigilance should be required if you die a lot to torps. 

And more if you bow in more and just accept loss of some of the gun angles it might help.  Though I note you say these are random torps while you’re not in smoke. 

 

I sympathize dying to literal 100% to 0% on one torp. Does happen sometimes to me in fletcher. I have SE there and I don’t usually die that way. Working towards vigilance. 

 

 

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I'm not entirely convinced about how much the Harugomo needs max concealment.  It's so unmaneuverable and large that I'm not sure if it should seek out really short range engagements.  Obviously, it's not really up for being an IJN version of the Khab, but I'm just wondering if it might prefer to fight at ranges around 8-10 km, or a little more if it has a chance to blaze away at some slow BB.

 

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Depending on the build, how you play, and who you play with, you could take vig and even TA for the extra torp detection.  From what i seen, torps are the biggest threat to the new IJN DDs.  I always look forward to them smoking up and then dumping a wall of skill into them.    If you are a KM DD, you can sneak up and hydro them, and chunk them for 4k+ AP salvos pretty easily.  They are so slow to get going, that you can chunk them for a lot of their health before they angle away. 

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1 hour ago, CarbonButtprint said:

My last two games ended in me getting killed in under 2 minutes by random walls of skill. I wasn't spotted, wasn't RPFed, just murdered by torps (once by gearing, once by shima). I wasn't even going where DDs would normally go, I was far away from the team on a flank on the second occasion (because I was trying to avoid a random wall again). Both times my ship hadn't even started turning before I got killed. Should I give up concealment for rudder shift or am I just plain unlucky?

You are playing the harugumo completely wrong. The rudder shift wont save you. It has an 830 turning radius. That's bloody worst than a conqueror!!! You are the 2nd worst concealed dd, the slowest dd, the fattest dd... If you want to go play as aggressively as you were. Go back to kitakaze. It's just better at the role.

The harugumo is pretty much an ijn Atlanta when it comes to gameplay. You hide and you shoot forever with your 14 plus km range.

Forget about conceal. You go pure gunboat build and you kill from a far away behind islands or in smoke.

Edited by Merlox

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'm not entirely convinced about how much the Harugomo needs max concealment.  It's so unmaneuverable and large that I'm not sure if it should seek out really short range engagements.  Obviously, it's not really up for being an IJN version of the Khab, but I'm just wondering if it might prefer to fight at ranges around 8-10 km, or a little more if it has a chance to blaze away at some slow BB.

 

The problem is that you end up with someone like me in a Harekazi tailing the Gumo while staying in stealth, keepign them lit for my team to shoot at. The larger the difference in detection, the easier it is for me to do.

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28 minutes ago, Merlox said:

You are playing the harugumo completely wrong. The rudder shift wont save you.

But any ship in this game can get caught off guard by a big wall of torps, and almost no DD is so manuverable that it is impossible to get hit by torps. Both salvoes were just me being in wrong place at the wrong time; i got unlucky. I do agree that I need to do more on my part to stay away from torp spreads all together, which is something that I have no problem doing in other ships. 

56 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

Other than that vigilance should be required if you die a lot to torps. 

That's what I'm thinking. I think Vigilance will be better because avoiding potentially 15k+ damage is more valuable than tanking another 3.5k. But, I'm still new to Harugumo, and maybe I'll be able to figure this oddball ship out as I play her more. 

Edited by CarbonButtprint

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Don't try to knife fight in caps with this thing. Use other DDs for support, or stay on the very edge and be ready to leave when you suspect you're being accosted by enemy DDs. You're not nearly as good as Kitakaze is in fighting over caps and you never will be, because of your horrible agility and concealment.

 

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4 hours ago, CarbonButtprint said:

But any ship in this game can get caught off guard by a big wall of torps, and almost no DD is so manuverable that it is impossible to get hit by torps. Both salvoes were just me being in wrong place at the wrong time; i got unlucky. I do agree that I need to do more on my part to stay away from torp spreads all together, which is something that I have no problem doing in other ships. 

That's what I'm thinking. I think Vigilance will be better because avoiding potentially 15k+ damage is more valuable than tanking another 3.5k. But, I'm still new to Harugumo, and maybe I'll be able to figure this oddball ship out as I play her more. 

First of all there is no such things as a big wall of torps, except for a div of 3 shimas or yugumos. which in all the time I've ever played has never happened to me, so I very much doubt it happens to you on a regular basis. 

You really have to start qualifying what a "torp wall" really is. 15 shima torps is understandably a bit daunting, but still. And really, are you really dying that much to Shimas?

You're right, nothing in the game generally completely avoids torps, though, i'd reckon the Fletcher, the t4 and under DD and light cruisers will seriously dodge for days. However, you should really be expecting to live through one torp, especially if its not a shima torp. 

 

Want proof of dodging? watch Yuro. 

Want proof of torps doing nothing? I mean, you should see that already with your IJNs. Watch flambass. 

 

All in all, take SE. Angle partially. Sit in smoke less. Take Vigilance. 

You lose BFT, but guess what, being alive is being better than 10% slower. Want to see some suck-no-fun? Even the German BBs take all zombie build, no secondary skills. That sucks. 

Sorry I'm not sure why that came out kind of hard. Bad day =)

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7 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

You really have to start qualifying what a "torp wall" really is. 15 shima torps is understandably a bit daunting, but still. And really, are you really dying that much to Shimas?

What I mean is all 15 shima torps spaced closely. Not a wide torpedo soup spam wall, but a thicc wall that leaves no gaps. The kind of spreads launched at a battleship that isnt showing signs of manuvering. When there is no gaps and no way to get around all of the torps entirely, a long ship like haruguno has a high chance of eating more than 1 because of the long size and poor manuverability. I have found myself getting caught sideways-on to these spreads that werent aimed at me. It's unlucky, usually theres big enough gaps to only take one. I'm not bad at dodging torps, what I'm saying is I keep dying to unusual salvoes when i didnt expect any, especially those where the player dropped all 3 so close together. 

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3 hours ago, CarbonButtprint said:

What I mean is all 15 shima torps spaced closely. Not a wide torpedo soup spam wall, but a thicc wall that leaves no gaps. The kind of spreads launched at a battleship that isnt showing signs of manuvering. When there is no gaps and no way to get around all of the torps entirely, a long ship like haruguno has a high chance of eating more than 1 because of the long size and poor manuverability. I have found myself getting caught sideways-on to these spreads that werent aimed at me. It's unlucky, usually theres big enough gaps to only take one. I'm not bad at dodging torps, what I'm saying is I keep dying to unusual salvoes when i didnt expect any, especially those where the player dropped all 3 so close together. 

Just saying the vigilance or rudder shift will barely help with that DD. It has a turning radius wider than a battleship and it's the longest DD in the game... You're better off just avoiding most torping water with that thing. 

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Just now, Merlox said:

Just saying the vigilance or rudder shift will barely help with that DD. It has a turning radius wider than a battleship and it's the longest DD in the game... You're better off just avoiding most torping water with that thing. 

Right, which is what I try to do. That's why I'm hesitant to give up my 10% DPM buff (or, in the future, the extra 3.5k HP). 

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1 minute ago, CarbonButtprint said:

Right, which is what I try to do. That's why I'm hesitant to give up my 10% DPM buff (or, in the future, the extra 3.5k HP). 

If you gave up that 10% DPM buff, you'd might as well sail the Kitakaze considering how little bonus's you'd be getting vs how many negatives your receiving. I actually gave up the Hargumo for the Kitakaze due to how many downsides to just gain 1 more gun..

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2 minutes ago, Merlox said:

If you gave up that 10% DPM buff, you'd might as well sail the Kitakaze considering how little bonus's you'd be getting vs how many negatives your receiving. I actually gave up the Hargumo for the Kitakaze due to how many downsides to just gain 1 more gun..

Well, I can't use Kitikaze in ranked, and I don't have the credits for Kitikaze, so I'm working with Harugumo for now. Not that that's a bad thing, I'm loving that extra gun. 

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