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ccsprague46

How exactly can a Henri IV Citadel a Yamato at any range?

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I was in a game, and because it was down to the wire, I had to close in an brawl a Henri IV.

What I'm wondering is where exactly at any range can he citadel me? He was popping off 14k salvos. He has 240mm guns, and I have 300mm+ of armor just about everywhere.

So is this a bug with Yamato's armor again or what? They kept saying under my second turret, but I checked the armor there and it's 260mm+ all around. The casemate armor, which is 32mm plus the 230mm of citadel armor right there essentially negates the shell.

I find it highly unlikely a cruiser like that could ever penetrate me at any range. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ccsprague46

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3 minutes ago, ccsprague46 said:

I was in a game, and because it was down to the wire, I had to close in an brawl a Henri IV.

What I'm wondering is where exactly at any range can he citadel me? He was popping off 14k salvos. He has 240mm guns, and I have 300mm+ of armor just about everywhere.

So is this a bug with Yamato's armor again or what? They kept saying under my second turret, but I checked the armor there and it's 350mm+ all around. 

I find it highly unlikely a cruiser like that could ever penetrate me at any range. 

 

 

 

 

I am a noob when it comes to pen values but I have citadeled a broadside yammy at 5kms in the  Moskva which has lesser caliber guns than the Henri. Also he might be getting regular pens as Henri has good AP shells and I remember getting such big salvos from a distance of 8-10 kms in the few Henri games I have played. 

Edited by sansfaille

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all 203mm gun can pass a 300mm armor if broadside, angle and that 300 will get alot higher. howerver due to the fact that the yammy have a wierd front citadel layout, even when you are angled you still show a flat side to your citadel ( look right under your second turret).

never ever underestimate cruiser ap

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One of the Cons from the WoWs Wiki on the Yammy - it helps keep it from being totally OP:

Quote

Despite her citadel being well armored, its large size and hexagonal shape mean she is still very vulnerable to any sorts of citadel damage from any angle.

Edited by CylonRed

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Even the AP salvo into the upper deck and other right places, with the main battery booster, the HIV can severely damage yammy in a brawl

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You do realize penetration values are not equal to shell size don’t you? The only impact shell size has on penetration directly is overmatchimg mechanics.

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http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Henri_IV

You can read up on the Henri in the wiki, it has devastating 240 mm AP guns, so punching through a citadel is possible against an angled Yamato due to it's funky angled citadel.

It's well known now how to hit the forward citadel of a Yammie, so it's not a rare thing that it happened.

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This is the infamous cheek found on the Yamato and Musashi just like a blushing anime girl.

 

Wes81jS.jpg

Edited by RipNuN2
  • Cool 2
  • Funny 2

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Like people have said, multiple reasons.

Firstly Yamato's citadel, tough heavily armored, is quite exposed and vulnerable. That awesome 460mm belt? Yeah, that's the citadel wall. There's nothing behind that. Then there's the infamous cheek, which I love to abuse regularly in my Musashi when facing down enemy Yamasushis, often to hilarious effect. Finally, Henri has the biggest guns of any tier 10 tech tree cruiser. 240mm shells, Moskva has been dethroned. Even a Hindenburg's 203mm can citadel ships like Fat Freddy and Iowa at range, Henri's stale baguettes one-up that and flat-out laugh at unangled battleship armor.

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Yep, as others said the yammy does have good armor, but only when angled in a manner to make it thicker or autobounce.   The cit shape makes it easier to cit under the front gun compared to other BBs.  Ships like the DM can abuse their autobounce angles and shoot through the 32mm nose section down into the cit without too much issue. 

 

heck, i remember the days where i would rush Iowas in the old Balti and rake in the cits on them before they were lowered.  I felt a little dirty after doing that. 

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Yamato takes the term "bow on tanking" to the extreme. If you point your nose directly at the enemy, and I literally mean directly, it's not going to citadel jack. But if you give it enough room to hit your fat cheek you're going to take a citadel more often than anything else. The speed of the Henri and its reload consumable will deal with you quickly if you let it.

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Heres a penetration graph for the Henri along with 2 other T10 cruisers, naturally no Russian bias......

 

blank.thumb.png.a38fda770620af4fda1668c66defd719.png

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

This is the infamous cheek found on the Yamato and Musashi just like a blushing anime girl.

 

Wes81jS.jpg

This is Yamato's achilles' heel.  I remember when I got Yamato when I was a newbie to Tier X ships, I did not know about this until about 80 or 90 matches in.  Every Yamato player has to be paranoid about that part of their protection scheme.

 

Also, anyone catching even any BB full broadside is going to get spanked at High Tier.  Not only will the BBs there have the power to punish, even some Cruisers if they're close will wreck a BB.  Des Moines if she can get into a close ranged fight and maneuver so a BB's guns can no longer track her is a BB Killer.  If DM gets to the sides those rapid firing 203mm guns dispensing 203mm SHS American Piercing Shells of Freedom of at least 5.5 second reloads will murder a BB.  Henri IV packs 240mm guns.   You got big guns on Moskva at 220mm.  Kronshtadt and Stalingrad pack 305mm.  Go ahead and let Stalingrad get a broadside view of your BB.  Alaska will be coming and she has 305mm also with USN CA AP bounce angles and the heavy shells the USN likes for big guns.

Rk1Kz3K.jpg

Everybody that knows something in High Tier aims for this.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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It's not just Yam, Monty can be cit from a long range also. I've done it myself on numerous occasions citing a broadside Monty from 16km away. It is one of the benefits that comes with Henri. =]

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

This is Yamato's achilles' heel.  I remember when I got Yamato when I was a newbie to Tier X ships, I did not know about this until about 80 or 90 matches in.  Every Yamato player has to be paranoid about that part of their protection scheme.

 

Also, anyone catching even any BB full broadside is going to get spanked at High Tier.  Not only will the BBs there have the power to punish, even some Cruisers if they're close will wreck a BB.  Des Moines if she can get into a close ranged fight and maneuver so a BB's guns can no longer track her is a BB Killer.  If DM gets to the sides those rapid firing 203mm guns dispensing 203mm SHS American Piercing Shells of Freedom of at least 5.5 second reloads will murder a BB.  Henri IV packs 240mm guns.   You got big guns on Moskva at 220mm.  Kronshtadt and Stalingrad pack 305mm.  Go ahead and let Stalingrad get a broadside view of your BB.  Alaska will be coming and she has 305mm also with USN CA AP bounce angles and the heavy shells the USN likes for big guns.

CA bounce angles 304 + shs. That's just rude, lol.

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1 minute ago, StoneRhino said:

CA bounce angles 304 + shs. That's just rude, lol.

In lower tiers there's a lot of Cruiser gunpower you can laugh off with a BB.  They shoot at you with their piddly little 152mm, 180mm guns, you laugh from how much it tickles.  Then you swing your guns over and destroy the Cruiser in one salvo.  But man, in High Tier, that's different.  You let most of those High Tier Cruisers get the jump on your BB in short range, all bets are off.

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On topic.

That upper belt or 32mm bow when flat can be punished too. 

While Yamato is the worst many BB are vulnerable in the general area when angled.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

In lower tiers there's a lot of Cruiser gunpower you can laugh off with a BB.  They shoot at you with their piddly little 152mm, 180mm guns, you laugh from how much it tickles.  Then you swing your guns over and destroy the Cruiser in one salvo.  But man, in High Tier, that's different.  You let most of those High Tier Cruisers get the jump on your BB in short range, all bets are off.

If you can brawl well those low tier cruisers can still eat up BBs. Get under their guns an laugh.

 

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

In lower tiers there's a lot of Cruiser gunpower you can laugh off with a BB.  They shoot at you with their piddly little 152mm, 180mm guns, you laugh from how much it tickles.  Then you swing your guns over and destroy the Cruiser in one salvo.  But man, in High Tier, that's different.  You let most of those High Tier Cruisers get the jump on your BB in short range, all bets are off.

Also I was more thinking about hitting cruisers. It's going to be nasty. 

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Anyways, I still remember sailing around with Yamato when I didn't know about that citadel weakness.  I'd come around corners and just get absolutely REKT.

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2 hours ago, ccsprague46 said:

I was in a game, and because it was down to the wire, I had to close in an brawl a Henri IV.

What I'm wondering is where exactly at any range can he citadel me? He was popping off 14k salvos. He has 240mm guns, and I have 300mm+ of armor just about everywhere.

So is this a bug with Yamato's armor again or what? They kept saying under my second turret, but I checked the armor there and it's 260mm+ all around. The casemate armor, which is 32mm plus the 230mm of citadel armor right there essentially negates the shell.

I find it highly unlikely a cruiser like that could ever penetrate me at any range. 

 

 

 

 

Yammy has a weak above water broadside, if at range, she can be citadeled easy depending on the caliber of guns shooting at her. Armor pen is not just based on the caliber itself, you also have to take into account the shell velocity as well.

2 hours ago, Sky_Cancer said:

all 203mm gun can pass a 300mm armor if broadside, angle and that 300 will get alot higher. howerver due to the fact that the yammy have a wierd front citadel layout, even when you are angled you still show a flat side to your citadel ( look right under your second turret).

never ever underestimate cruiser ap

Most cruisers don't have the high enough caliber to cit the yammy through the cheek weakness.

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