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BlailBlerg

Where and how to aim against full speed turning cruisers or backwards crawling cruisers

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I don't know where to aim (or how to achieve that aim). 

Specific example: I'm in GK, at 14-18 (maybe up to 20)km away from a needs to die cruiser. Probably on the other side of the map radiating (radaring) our dying half of the team. 

Its either at full speed turning hard in one direction (plausibly predictable), or backing out at full speed, nose in with 10degree shifts in angle. Typically Moskvas, Hindys or DM/Woosters. 

 

Where to aim for on contact? (Should I aim for super structure?) 

How to get that? (Any tricks for lining up a shot into the superstructure specifically?) 

Most of my bow shots just bounce. 

Is it better to fire one gun at a time, instead of a salvo because of how the guns will make a horizontal spread if salvo'ed? 

 

Assume that for reasons that I'm not intentionally being too far from combat. (Usually I'm turning back to help the dying side of my team, and I'm within about 12-14km of the battle). (Also-or, there's DDs and cruiser spam preventing getting super close to be easy). 

How also, do you all tend to close in the GK? I've already got zombie+AR+EM. 

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angled one idk....

full speed turning ones make sure you shoot in advance so shells land when they are perfectly broadside.

i find that too many people shoot when the ship is perfectly broadside, and when their shells finally land, enemy already angled enough

 

aside from this....maybe get a friend to go in training room with you so you can practice full speed turning cruisers? nothing works better than actual practice

 

Edited by jason199506

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Most of the high speed turning cruisers are doing a full turn to get undetected..... imagine a crescent moon, and aim for that last upward tip as it relates to distance and speed....

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Yeah I do training rooms with my GK with moving bots for aim practice. 

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I aim at the central axis of their turn so that my shells hit where they will be in just a moment.

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I have terrible aim so take this or leave it, but know that cruisers are tough at range because they are fast, narrow and can literally see/dodge incoming shells.

Generally any ship moving forward/towards me, I key off the bow side closest to me. If it's moving forward/away from me, I key off bow side furthest from me.

If the ship is reversing/angling towards me, I key off the aft side closest to me. If it's reversing/angling away from me, I key off aft side furthest from me.

Sequential fire seems to work best on moving targets in the first salvos to guarantee at least a few hits - If you intuitively know where he's going to be or he's dead in the water, let him have it in one volley.

Figuring out ship speed and knowing each ship's characteristics is unicum territory and I'll avoid that part, but if my shots are bouncing and I cannot increase the angle on my own, then I aim for the deck/superstructure - maybe switch to HE if it's a practical choice.

There are people who study actual gun types, ammunition, trajectories, dispersion/sigma, etc. as well as armor … but do you really wanna be THAT GUY? 

 

Edited by Commander_367

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If it's backing up and at a severe angle, one where you can only see the front of the ship, I aim for the rear of the ship. The less severe the angle, the more lead you need to give to your aim. A fast DD backing up at full speed broadside can need two lines on the crosshairs in sniper mode to get good hits.

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Spend a round and shoot one shot to see where it woujld land - then make any adjustments and fire the rest.  It is really the only way to know and get it ingrained.

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It's like trap shooting. You have to lead and throw. Hard to give a precise description. It takes practice - like everything else. I can't count the times I've just thrown shells on my best guess and connected spectacularly. I sometimes feel the game awards good proximation.

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It really depends on the BB you are in and the cruiser you're targeting and the range.

I've never driven a GK so I don't know.. but you have to understand your ballistics.

If the range is such the shell hits the cruiser on a downward arc then aim for the base of the superstructure (if cruiser is head-on to you aim to where the topside of the front-aftmost turret ends and superstructure starts). This applies if the cruiser is coming at you slow or backing up. 

If the shells are mostly flat aim for where the bow of the ship meets the waterline.

Of course, soviet bias is soviet bias so if its a soviet cruiser forget about AP and just fire HE at them.

German ships get bonus penetration with HE so bow-on soviet cruisers should take good damage from a GK.

As for firing the guns one by one: YES.

Not only that, switch turret view as you fire. It changes your perspective/aim slightly allowing you to adjust.

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7 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

I don't know where to aim (or how to achieve that aim). 

Specific example: I'm in GK, at 14-18 (maybe up to 20)km away from a needs to die cruiser. Probably on the other side of the map radiating (radaring) our dying half of the team. 

Its either at full speed turning hard in one direction (plausibly predictable), or backing out at full speed, nose in with 10degree shifts in angle. Typically Moskvas, Hindys or DM/Woosters. 

 

Where to aim for on contact? (Should I aim for super structure?) 

How to get that? (Any tricks for lining up a shot into the superstructure specifically?) 

Most of my bow shots just bounce. 

Is it better to fire one gun at a time, instead of a salvo because of how the guns will make a horizontal spread if salvo'ed? 

 

Assume that for reasons that I'm not intentionally being too far from combat. (Usually I'm turning back to help the dying side of my team, and I'm within about 12-14km of the battle). (Also-or, there's DDs and cruiser spam preventing getting super close to be easy). 

How also, do you all tend to close in the GK? I've already got zombie+AR+EM. 

First is to get closer than 14-20km , maybe more like 12 -13 km. Full turn you need to aim far enough ahead to anticpate for loss of speed and where the waterline will be. For a backing up cruiser you need to figure out how fast and aim for just behind the stern.

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Ok well. Sounds like a few things to try 

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You a BB shooting at a Cruiser?

 

First thing to remember is if your BB's gun size can Overmatch the Cruiser's bow.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds

Some Cruisers, namely USN & German CAs have 27mm bows, and they will bounce 380mm AP on the bow.  Then you have some quirky protection schemes, i.e. Moskva.  Moskva for example has a lower bow and deck that are 50mm thick.  But the upper bow is only 25mm and can be penetrated by even 380mm.  You have to take into account your BB's gun size and what your target is giving you, and recall the kind of armor they got.

 

Can you Overmatch?  Smash the bow, even if they're angled.  This is the luxury of 406mm+ armed Battleships.  Life is simpler.

 

If not, you got Big BB Guns and you can still sling AP shells to the superstructure / turret area.  Cruiser Turrets are nowhere near as well protected as Battleship turrets and BB AP will wreck them.  If I'm using a 380mm armed BB and shooting at such armored Cruisers like Hindenburg with 27mm bow, I'll settle into wrecking the turrets.  If they're angled, you may also bag some torpedo launchers in the attempt.

 

If you're in a Bismarck and got a DM that you can't get to their sides for a killer salvo, don't settle for bow shots, smash DM's turrets.  I've run into many such BBs with Des Moines that think only about smashing the Cruiser hull for citadels but fail to recognize that some BB guns can be bounced by some Cruiser bows, and they keep going for the hull, while the tender turrets are left alone.

 

Of course, if you got side view, citadel them.

 

Precision in your BB salvos into the Cruiser will of course vary depending on range, but you can still aim for a general area just fine.  It's just with more range and RNG occasionally screwing you, it won't be as precise.  Aiming for the area of the 2 forward Cruiser turrets or the area between the turrets and forward superstructure has worked well for my BBs.

 

This is only a concern when dealing with certain High Tier Cruisers.  Cruisers in general below Tier VIII have such sh*tty armor that all you need to do is land hits with a BB and you'll profit mightily.

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11 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

I don't know where to aim (or how to achieve that aim). 

Specific example: I'm in GK, at 14-18 (maybe up to 20)km away from a needs to die cruiser. Probably on the other side of the map radiating (radaring) our dying half of the team. 

Its either at full speed turning hard in one direction (plausibly predictable), or backing out at full speed, nose in with 10degree shifts in angle. Typically Moskvas, Hindys or DM/Woosters. 

 

Where to aim for on contact? (Should I aim for super structure?) 

How to get that? (Any tricks for lining up a shot into the superstructure specifically?) 

Most of my bow shots just bounce. 

Is it better to fire one gun at a time, instead of a salvo because of how the guns will make a horizontal spread if salvo'ed? 

 

Assume that for reasons that I'm not intentionally being too far from combat. (Usually I'm turning back to help the dying side of my team, and I'm within about 12-14km of the battle). (Also-or, there's DDs and cruiser spam preventing getting super close to be easy). 

How also, do you all tend to close in the GK? I've already got zombie+AR+EM. 

With German BBs even if your aim is spot on, the sigma and RNG (random numbers generator) can still have your shells splash all around it.  It drives me nuts sometimes.

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Too bad there isn't an "aim bot" mod for just the training room.

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Most cruisers have incoming fire skill, so single fire 1 shot, wait for him to dodge and shoot in to his turn, he cant get out of it fast enough. If they are already turning or kiting, then you have to make a fade shot for the kiting. Again, fire 1, watch his wiggle and salvo the rest within his wiggle. GK dispersion is wide enough to wing him like a shotgun blast. In Training room, you can enable bots to defend themselves and be set to highest difficulty. Set up a combat scenario where you are 1V6 against Des Moines in Ocean. You are not dodging torps, you are fighting 6 cruisers that will hit at range and also surround you. Sail in constant turning either left or right, but do not unlock the steering. Instead you are going to constantly try to hit anything while you are turning and try to hit anything that comes to bear. While this may be a dizzy exercise. It will make you develop your brain to fire like you are on a gimble and it is extremely difficult. You are not expected to win, you are expected to land shots in an impossible scenario so that when you see just a regular player wiggle, you would no longer perceive it as difficult. Up the ante by adding more ships and even add Zaos. You will not survive, but your reflexes will definitely improve and your shooting skills will be improving. Then re-create those map scenarios so you can better use tactics if a cruiser force bears down on you. Terrain and speed is your friend. Cruisers use it, why not you? Yeah, there are certain cruisers that can get you from behind an island, but once you practice on which ones those are, then you use tactics to lure them out from cover instead by Opening the distance. One way of doing that is turning off your secbat. It tends to give you away if it fires at anything. Toggle it off , break off from that nawty ninja cruiser,  and lure him out. he can not hit you at your max range, so dictate the battle. Sail as far from his position and get a better shooting angle well outside of his hiding spot. If he cant hit you, it is because you are out of his range. Use of a spotter plane is crucial for picking off hiding cruisers. Once you have dictated the battle and he is unable to hit you, send up the spotter and drop HE on him 1st salvo, then AP. Alternate this as he will either move out of his spot or come after you thinking you are a noob because you are alternating ammo. You would be surprised how effective this is as playing dumb makes your enemy underestimate you. Once he is in open water, again, let him have it but now you are dictating the range. Never let him close in. If he sails head on or angled at you to pursue, then just sequential fire ahead of his bow by aiming lower than the bow's edge that comes in contact with water. This sends AP shells in a rolling barrage through the bow, then turret 1 roof, then gap between turret 1 and 2, then turret 2 roof and middle. Keep doing that if he heads in and wait for him to break one direction to get the rest of his guns out. More than likely you incapacitate 1 turret or damage it, there is a high chance at long range for a magazine detonation if you land one in the gap, and there is also a high chance you annoy him with a bow overpen that citadels him because you overmatched him even head on. That last one is rare, but RNG does let you have at least one in game. Warfare is about gambling. You can full salvo that cruiser bow on if you just practice the bow on shot or the hit turret 1 shot. The bow on gets a cit and likely detonation, the turret 1 shot almost guarantees a turret being destroyed. Some cruiser captains will be done if they lose a front turret and they will kite away rest of game as they lost the offensive tactic. Remember, they know your weaknesses, but you do not want to let them use them. You want to use their weaknesses instead. 

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Getting hits at distance on Cruisers is difficult, becuause the ship may be angled just enough we’re you've got the lead right but shells fall short or to far

I check the smoke to get ship speed and shoot we’re the ship will be  when the shells land

a spotter plane is great for showing what slight angled ships look like

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Go into options and enable both the dynamic crosshair and the "TTT" or Time To Target indicators.    The Dynamic crosshair is setup for ships traveling approximately 30 knots.

When the target is travelling broadside use the TTT indicators.    Cut the value in half for targets sailing a course which orients them 45 degrees to either side.   Cut the value in half for targets travelling directly towards you.   

Ships entering a turn will slow down,   ships exiting a turn will accelerate.    Look at your target's exhaust smoke to determine their rate of travel,  and direction of travel.    Notice  if they are hauling [edited],  sitting still,  or reversing. 

 

Edited by pR1mal_

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if the cruiser is turning to bowtank me,i will shoot where my shells can hit more of his armor aka,the moment his hull is right angled for example,decreasing the chances of overpen and MAYBE hitting the citadel just right.

so many times i did that and(if rng didn't [edited] with me) avoided a torpedo spam in my belt.

Edited by Cruxdei

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2 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

a spotter plane is great for showing what slight angled ships look like

So is a quick tap of the M key, not enough to open it, but just to start to open it

Edited by Captain_Kylere

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21 minutes ago, Captain_Kylere said:

So is a quick tap of the M key, not enough to open it, but just to start to open it

I use the M key quite  a bit actually which takes you to the tactical map and gives the true heading of the ships something the minimap does not always show ... good call

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Aim, fire, adjust, read the info from your scope and compare it to the info from the ship with the Alternate Battle Interface. Compensate for that time it takes and the range it takes for those shells to land.

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