Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Ensign_Cthulhu

0.7.8 French containers now cheaper/Collection nearly done, so what to do with Jean-Jacques

19 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

2,435
[ARGSY]
Members
7,185 posts
4,874 battles

Thank you, WG, for reducing the price on these. Even if we now get fewer camos, the collection is much, much easier to finish. I've got three items left with four duplicates in hand. At an exchange rate of 3 duplicates per item, and five items dropping with every container package bought, the next batch of French containers is a GUARANTEED finish.

Now, what do I do with Jean-Jacques when I get him? Current frontline French ships are Lyon, Aigle and Friant, with Lyon likely to be his tech tree ship. How would you set J-J Honore up for the Lyon? (He will eventually go into the Richelieu and probably stay there, and he will retrain in the Aigle.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
899
[HYDRO]
Members
1,864 posts
3,961 battles

AR and EM scale well with almost everything. 

The build will most likely depend on whether you want to spec your Richelieu or Lyon for secondaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,435
[ARGSY]
Members
7,185 posts
4,874 battles
13 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

AR and EM scale well with almost everything. 

The build will most likely depend on whether you want to spec your Richelieu or Lyon for secondaries.

How good is the Lyon as a Secondaries ship? I haven't yet specced into manual secondaries, and I might prefer to try that in PTS before I commit to an expensive, intensive build on the live server. Certainly I have seen the Lyon in Operation Hermes swat down planes in a way that makes me think missiles (at least the early ones) wouldn't be a game breaker, and a secondaries build runs much the same way, does it not?

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
899
[HYDRO]
Members
1,864 posts
3,961 battles
11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

How good is the Lyon as a Secondaries ship? I haven't yet specced into manual secondaries, and I might prefer to try that in PTS before I commit to an expensive, intensive build on the live server. Certainly I have seen the Lyon in Operation Hermes swat down planes in a way that makes me think missiles (at least the early ones) wouldn't be a game breaker, and a secondaries build runs much the same way, does it not?

As a disclaimer, I'm mediocre when it comes to BB's so not an expert by any means.

That said, personally I feel 16 gun barrels are enough to solve most of your issues.

However Lyon secondaries are pretty strong and uniform in caliber. They have a bit less range than Gneis and have good fire chance. On the other hand Lyon doesn't have the strongest armor, nor an almost immune citadel.

As far as AA is concerned, Lyon is the tier 7 equivalent of Queen Elizabeth, if not stronger.

With AFT and BFT you can boost your AA in tandem with secondaries. I'm not a real fan of dedicated secondary builds since they rely with few exceptions on rng. A more hybridized build seems more appealing to me at least.

 

Edited by warheart1992

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,435
[ARGSY]
Members
7,185 posts
4,874 battles
10 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I'm not a real fan of dedicated secondary builds since they rely with few exceptions on rng.

Manual fire control for secondaries certainly stacks the RNG a little more in your favour at Tier VII or above, but I'm more inclined just to take the BFT and AFT, enjoy the increased AA firepower it gives me, and let the secondaries do their own thing on BOTH sides if necessary while I concentrate on main guns and manoeuvre.

The AA will always be good for Hermes and other T7 ops even if carriers fade out of the main game, and being able to swat enemy scout planes that get too close is never a bad thing. 

I believe Bert Dunkirk is going to become a winnable captain, so I'm guessing we'll eventually get Jean-Jacques' brother as well; he can go in Richelieu if I decide I want to keep the Lyon. So... PM, EM, BFT, AFT, I guess, and then go back for the other special Jean-Jacques talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,375
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
5,956 posts
9,844 battles
2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

With AFT and BFT you can boost your AA in tandem with secondaries. I'm not a real fan of dedicated secondary builds since they rely with few exceptions on rng. A more hybridized build seems more appealing to me at least.

 

Agreed. Manual Secondaries simply requires too much specialization. Sure you can wreck face when you get close enough to grab them by the belt. What happens when you can't get close enough for that and you are getting burned down because you didn't take skills that help with fire damage?

Max out the range on the secondaries, but don't bother with MS. Against a cruiser or BB you will still get plenty of hits.

Us DD players don't like getting shot at by secondaries, even if they mostly miss. DD health pools are small, that one hit that disables my torpedo launcher with 5 seconds left on the reload is infuriating, and it becomes difficult to tell if someone else is finding the range on you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
899
[HYDRO]
Members
1,864 posts
3,961 battles
11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Manual fire control for secondaries certainly stacks the RNG a little more in your favour at Tier VII or above, but I'm more inclined just to take the BFT and AFT, enjoy the increased AA firepower it gives me, and let the secondaries do their own thing on BOTH sides if necessary while I concentrate on main guns and manoeuvre.

The AA will always be good for Hermes and other T7 ops even if carriers fade out of the main game, and being able to swat enemy scout planes that get too close is never a bad thing. 

I believe Bert Dunkirk is going to become a winnable captain, so I'm guessing we'll eventually get Jean-Jacques' brother as well; he can go in Richelieu if I decide I want to keep the Lyon. So... PM, EM, BFT, AFT, I guess, and then go back for the other special Jean-Jacques talents.

Of course, all this makes sense if you tend to dive at times or spend alot of time in Ops with guaranteed CQC and planes.

My Lyon, with Honore as well rocks PT, EM, AR, BOS, CE, relying more on survivability and surprise 16 gun salvos close to my detection range.

Edited by warheart1992

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,435
[ARGSY]
Members
7,185 posts
4,874 battles
16 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Of course, all this makes sense if you tend to dive at times or spend alot of time in Ops with guaranteed CQC and planes.

My Lyon, with Honore as well rocks PT, EM, AR, BOS, CE, relying more on survivability and surprise 16 gun salvos close to my detection range.

Your build may make more sense for the grind, with the other being saved for fun in ops after the Richelieu is obtained. I would probably take PT, EM, BOS, CE in that order with AR later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,811
[TBW]
Members
6,607 posts
12,463 battles
3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

(He will eventually go into the Richelieu and probably stay there, and he will retrain in the Aigle.)

I kept mine in Richelieu. I ground the Lyon in Hermes, got Richelieu, transferred JJH with secondary build. Ground to the Alsace but kept JJH in Richelieu because of how good it does in the Hermes Operation. Hermes was last week but it is a great place to grind those two ships (it only took me 3 days of playing them). JJH transfers to Gascogne for Hermes quite nicely for great Credits, Captains XP and free XP.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,564
[PVE]
Members
10,849 posts
7,982 battles

I have Honore on the Lyon and will use him in the Gascogne as well. I went with PT, EM, BFT, AFT and will add AR, IFHE, BoS to round him out to 19pts when I get there.

 

Lyon has the AA mod and has the 4x2 130mm and 4x4 130mm HE secondaries are at 4.3s and 6.3km. The same 130mm guns are DP, so the AA is 109 dps at 7.5km, the 40mm AA is 245 dps at 5.1km and the 20mm AA is 131 dps at 2.9km.

 

Gascogne has the Sec mod and has the 8x2 100mm HE guns at 3,6s and 10.1km and the 152mm HE guns at 10.8s and 10.1km. The same secondary guns are DP, so the AA is 95 DPS at 6km,  37mm AA is 116 dps at 4.2km and 82 dps at 3.6km

 

If I were to switch the Lyon to having the sec mod, the 4x2 130mm and 4x4 130mm HE secondaries are at 4.3s and 7.6km. The same 130mm guns are DP, so the AA is 109 dps at 6.2km, the 40mm AA is 245 dps at 4.2km and the 20mm AA is 131 dps at 2.4km. Come to think of it, I will try the sec mod for a while to see how it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,435
[ARGSY]
Members
7,185 posts
4,874 battles
2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Come to think of it, I will try the sec mod for a while to see how it works.

Let me know how it goes. I can't remember how I've got the Lyon set up right now (probably to improve dispersion on the main guns), but I would countenance spending the silver for one respec and I would like to make the best possible and most informed choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
492
[VW]
Members
2,059 posts
12,968 battles
11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Let me know how it goes. I can't remember how I've got the Lyon set up right now (probably to improve dispersion on the main guns), but I would countenance spending the silver for one respec and I would like to make the best possible and most informed choice.

If you go up to Rep the secondaries become beastly. I never go manual secondaries because i like when they alert me of that dd sneaking behide me as i brawl the oher side. Not only do they alert me, but hey engage him. I always run aft/bft for bbs due to he secondary as well as aa buffs. I generally go PT AR EM BOS BFT AFT CE in bbs. I do this in expectation of close quarter engagements since i prefer this play style (with a particular view to ranked play). If you prefer tanking, go for a survivability build, either way JJ’s skills are great for French bbs.

Edited by monpetitloup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,564
[PVE]
Members
10,849 posts
7,982 battles
11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Let me know how it goes. I can't remember how I've got the Lyon set up right now (probably to improve dispersion on the main guns), but I would countenance spending the silver for one respec and I would like to make the best possible and most informed choice.

It's 1.3km extra range on the secondaries instead of 1.3km, 0.9km and 0.5km on the AA guns. Since I see more bots than bot CVs, I think I'll keep the sec mod.  Both BBs secondary guns will benefit from IFHE, so that will be the one that is a maybe. I'll be a year or more until I get to 16 pts tho. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,435
[ARGSY]
Members
7,185 posts
4,874 battles
1 minute ago, monpetitloup said:

I never go manual secondaries because i like when they alert me of that dd sneaking behide me as i brawl the oher side. Not only do they alert me, but hey engage him.

Yes, this is EXACTLY why I am not keen to use them.

The secondary builds are all generally looking much the same, with a few tweaks to suit individual tastes.

1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

It's 1.3km extra range on the secondaries instead of 1.3km, 0.9km and 0.5km on the AA guns. Since I see more bots than bot CVs, I think I'll keep the sec mod.

Seems the secondaries mod gives adequate AA boost while fitting more appropriately to the current meta. I generally don't play Co-op at that high a tier, but human CVs aren't exactly common either (though T5-7 seems to be their current sweet spot, inasmuch as there is one).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
492
[VW]
Members
2,059 posts
12,968 battles
5 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yes, this is EXACTLY why I am not keen to use them.

The secondary builds are all generally looking much the same, with a few tweaks to suit individual tastes.

Seems the secondaries mod gives adequate AA boost while fitting more appropriately to the current meta. I generally don't play Co-op at that high a tier, but human CVs aren't exactly common either (though T5-7 seems to be their current sweet spot, inasmuch as there is one).

Side note i see them every other match (playing tiers 4-10), dont know when you guys play, but people who say there are no cvs...beats me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,185
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
16,913 posts
15,363 battles
11 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

How good is the Lyon as a Secondaries ship? I haven't yet specced into manual secondaries, and I might prefer to try that in PTS before I commit to an expensive, intensive build on the live server. Certainly I have seen the Lyon in Operation Hermes swat down planes in a way that makes me think missiles (at least the early ones) wouldn't be a game breaker, and a secondaries build runs much the same way, does it not?

Jean-Jeacque's special AR & EM traits go well with both the French BB & Cruiser Lines.

 

AR's usefulness is clear.

 

EM's usefulness to BBs is obvious, but for French Cruisers it's much more important, IMO.  French Cruisers are open water, ranged combatants.  It's not surprising to get shot at a lot and a player of this line needs to be sailing defensively quite often.  Eventually turret traverse starts being a nagging thing when you hare sailing defensively and people shooting at you.  The turrets have decent traverse but eventually their tracking can't keep up as well.  The temptation arises to let the turrets catch up by cutting down on the maneuvering to get off a full salvo.  That's when you get nailed in a French Cruiser.  It takes an extra second or two for the turrets to catch up from wild maneuvering and some players will catch you like that.  Not all those BBs out there are potatoes in their aim.  This is especially true with the High Tier BBs where some are very proficient at range.  EM will cut down some on that extra time for the guns to settle.

 

Lyon as a Secondaries BB?  Personally I think she's a poor candidate.  The problem is she's very soft and easy to citadel, so being tempted to get closer for a Secondaries fight is counter-intuitive to her strengths.  Let the guns sing at intermediate range with 16-gun salvos.  At Tier VII alone there are already some nasty, fast sailing BBs that would happily oblige a knife fighting Lyon.  The range of the secondaries will also not be special if you do get into a Tier VIII-IX match with Lyon.

Bismarck, Tirpitz, now Massachusetts with their super long Secondaries range.

I'm sure Amagi, North Carolina, Alabama would be happy to see a Lyon try to get into Secondaries range.

Let's not even discuss how happy FDG, Alsace, Iowa / Missouri, etc. would be with a Secondaries Build Lyon trying to get close.

IMO, keep the fighting at arm's length and away from being close to you with Lyon.  Some of those VII BBs already are too dangerous for Lyon to get close with.

 

AA is very strong on Lyon if specc'ed for it.  Only an AA Gneisenau is just as dangerous to CVs.

Personally, AA Lyon was what I did when grinding her for Richelieu.  I relied on the 16-gun salvo to get hits and the AA kept CVs at bay or slaughtered their planes, even Tier IX planes.  This style of fighting didn't require my Lyon to get dangerously close to anyone.

 

A valid alternative is the Main Battery - Survival Hybrid Build for Lyon.  Slap ASM1 to tighten up that 16-gun salvo a bit, and she can be pretty scary.  You're forsaking your Secondary / AA Power with such a build though, by adopting ASM1 instead of SBM2 / AAGM2 respectively.  Make up for it with the typical Survival traits, upgrades, etc.  I tried this at the very end of my Lyon grind and it's pretty sweet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
328 posts
4,707 battles

Lyon with 3.5 degree/second turret traverse is crying out for JJH's improved EM skill.  Richelieu with 5 degree/second turret traverse (fastest BB in game?) is not in as great a need, though it is always useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,709 posts
6,418 battles

Oooooo - I did not see these till this thread - finally got him myself with some coal...  :)  I think he will go on my Rich to get him trained up and maybe added to the Republique when I can get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×