Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
BBsquid

Enough with the gimmicks

48 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

322
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,088 posts
3,994 battles

Dear WG dev team,

Having been aboard for a comparatively long haul now (not as long as some) I have to ask: whats up with  adding more ridiculous gimmicks? MN BBs with speed boost, a premium with a MBRB, Hood's AA rockets, and ENTIRE line of BBs built around HE, supersaturation of radar in matches...and now the new MBRBs coming in 7.8. Really? Is it that difficult to balance a ship without ridiculous and ahistoric  doodads attached?

I have seen it asked before and I find myself scratching my head and asking the same question: No offense, but do you actually play your game? There have been some great changes over the years....and some real stinkers. I'm actually thinking that as of late, the game was in a better place back in CBT. 

Instead of these goody gimmicks can we maybe, please, nerf BB HE? While I appreciate that New Mexico, FdG, or Richelieu firing HE at my broadside when I turn to avoid torpedoes...its kinda ridiculous. While I understand its a mechanic to shorten matches, Im just gonna say again HE is not an incendiary weapon; its a blast fragmentation munition. Going beyond that, though, BBs would not fire HE at one another. Let the DDs and CA/CLs keep the HE to enable damage to BBs. For all that is holy...make the BB driver that spams HE all match suffer some penalty. Double the reload on HE to simulate the gun crews protesting poor ammo/target choices. HE flinging BBs are just stat padding damage and do not contribute much to the match.

  • Cool 5
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
330
[SYJ]
Members
966 posts
2,243 battles

As a bb main I can positively say...

 

All BB drivers are stat padding damage, no matter what type of shell they shoot:cap_haloween:

 

But just to clarify... you are angry that people are using he because it's the better ammo on type on battleships????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
357
[SIDE]
Members
1,305 posts
9,306 battles

Well, if BB's are using nothing but HE, I'd like to say ' keep that going please.'

It means less citadels(since you can actually citadel low tier cruisers with HE) and you can mitigate a LOT of that HE dmg with judicious healing and appropriate captain skills and mods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
680
[OPRAH]
Beta Testers
4,096 posts
13,282 battles

@Sub_Octavian developer Please hear his plea! Oh by the way Love the new consumables, HE an whatever gimmicks you throw our way and CVs do not need a rework. The whinners need to learn how to use them! @BBsquid that was easy enough to send to one who can do something with your ideas.

  • Bad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
322
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,088 posts
3,994 battles
Just now, _1204_ said:

As a bb main I can positively say...

 

All BB drivers are stat padding damage, no matter what type of shell they shoot:cap_haloween:

 

But just to clarify... you are angry that people are using he because it's the better ammo on type on battleships????

HE is NOT the better ammo type, not by a long shot. You can do far more damage using AP if you know how to aim. BBs using HE on anything but bowtankers is just...lazy.

By your logic, all classes are stat padding "no matter what type of shell they shoot." 

DDs and cruisers need the HE and fires to offset the middling damage their guns do against BBs. BBs do not need to use HE except in the rarest of circumstances. Odds are there are more lucrative targets for a BB to shoot other than the bow tanking BB...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
330
[SYJ]
Members
966 posts
2,243 battles
1 minute ago, BBsquid said:

HE is NOT the better ammo type, not by a long shot. You can do far more damage using AP if you know how to aim. BBs using HE on anything but bowtankers is just...lazy.

Still not following... nerf HE because it's the worse ammo type?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
322
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,088 posts
3,994 battles
2 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

Still not following... nerf HE because it's the worse ammo type?

Now Im with you. Perhaps nerf is the wrong term. Some kind pf penalty for BBs spamming it incessantly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
454
[WOLF5]
Members
1,650 posts
2,333 battles
3 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

Still not following... nerf HE because it's the worse ammo type?

Yeah, I don't follow either. If I see a BB using HE I immediately reduce his threat level, and proceed to do things I would never do if was shooting AP. Generally it ends badly for him. RN BBs are excepted, I will go to great lengths to avoid being spammed a Conqueror.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
263
[REVY]
Members
969 posts
7,809 battles
24 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

Hood's AA rockets,

 

please explain how this is a 'gimmick'

 

The things actually existed on the Hood and other Royal Navy ships. They weren't very effective and were actually noted as being a source for a fire on the Hood during the Denmark Straits.

UP_mount_HMS_King_George_V_IWM_A_9385.jp16_inch_gun_turrets_and_Unrotated_Projec

7-inch_UP_projectiles_HMS_King_George_V_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
454
[WOLF5]
Members
1,650 posts
2,333 battles
2 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

Now Im with you. Perhaps nerf is the wrong term. Some kind pf penalty for BBs spamming it incessantly?

Already is one. Do less damage and have less effect on the game. If non-RN BBs shooting HE are killing you, learn to manage your heal and damage control.

RN BBs are just stupid, WG really screwed that one up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
151
[2347]
Members
182 posts
5,399 battles

This game reminds me of D&D back circa 1978 when our characters would steadily grow stronger as our campaigns progressed. The monsters would get tougher, the rewards ever greater, and our characters' stats inflated to ridiculous levels. Eventually, our party would have to fight the gods themselves, and we expected to win! It was hilarious, but not as much fun as our games were when toiling with average stats, mediocre weapons, and a much greater reliance upon our wits than overpowered armor and weapons.

Ah, those were the days!

Anyway, World of Warships reminds me of the Dungeon Master with the great idea for a story, a talent for telling it, and the fatal flaw of throwing more and bigger rewards at the players until his marvelous campaign was broken and we had to start all over again from scratch. Of course, we were all pimply faced teenagers back then, and it was nothing but paper and pencils and pizza. The stakes are a little bigger here.

Edited by _Starbuck
  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
322
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,088 posts
3,994 battles
14 minutes ago, _Rumple_ said:

you can mitigate a LOT of that HE dmg with judicious healing and appropriate captain skills and mods.

This Im not worried about...its the fact that the majority of the damage being done against the red BBs is going to be healed back and thus green HE spewing BBs arent doing much more than inflating their average damage numbers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
322
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,088 posts
3,994 battles
2 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

 

please explain how this is a 'gimmick'

 

The things actually existed on the Hood and other Royal Navy ships. They weren't very effective and were actually noted as being a source for a fire on the Hood during the Denmark Straits.

UP_mount_HMS_King_George_V_IWM_A_9385.jp16_inch_gun_turrets_and_Unrotated_Projec

7-inch_UP_projectiles_HMS_King_George_V_

The way they are implemented in game is a gimmick as they are horrendously effective compared to their real life performance. They give an AA specc'ed Hood the majority of  her AA power yet were astounding disappointments in reality.  Gimmick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
322
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,088 posts
3,994 battles
6 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Already is one. Do less damage and have less effect on the game. If non-RN BBs shooting HE are killing you, learn to manage your heal and damage control.

RN BBs are just stupid, WG really screwed that one up.

As I stated previously, fore management isnt a problem, and yes, when I get caught in a bad spot for whatever reason, always nice to see those orange tracers and know I dodged a bullet. My team mates, however, as you said are contributing little while they gleefully spam HE at red BBs.

Im simply asking why WG feels the need to fluff everything with gimmicks, and some cheesy ones to boot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
824
[HYDRO]
Members
1,792 posts
3,935 battles

BBs at higher tiers need HE like it or not. The way overmatch mechanics and extremity armor work, HE is often the only way for a BB to do damage/fires vs angled opponents. That said, the way the HE of some BBs starts fires every single time and strips half the AA mounts each salvo is a bit ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
287
[TSPC]
Beta Testers
1,112 posts
10,651 battles

Sorry OP but, as a BB driver you are going to get HE if you are angled at 45 degrees or "end on" to me.  If you want AP, give me your broadside.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
106
[SOB]
[SOB]
Members
254 posts
3,944 battles

Im all for BBs slinging HE. Love it when I am in a BB as well & some dweed is shooting HE at me. I will laugh & say "Try to put this out beyatch!" as I slap him with AP. 

All these convos come down to the broken fire mechanic. I know the HE spammers hate when someone even suggests it, it is their sacred cow. However there is no doubt that the fires in WoWs are not remotely realistic (not that WoWs puts much effort into being realistic). 

There is relatively little flammable material on the exterior of a naval vessel consequently when fires did start it was because the interior structure (citadel) was pierced & the fuel set ablaze. There were often mortal wounds. Want a semi realistic representation of fires? Make it that only the 1st 20% & last 20% of a ships HP pool be able to reduced by fire. The 1st 20% (generous) for the external materials that might get set ablaze & the last 20% signifying the wrecked structure & fuel leakage. All other damage would be base blast/penetration.
This goes for all ships, not just BBs. 

In lieu of this, we need drastically reduced fire chances on all ships. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,166 posts
10 battles
51 minutes ago, _Rumple_ said:

Well, if BB's are using nothing but HE, I'd like to say ' keep that going please.'

It means less citadels(since you can actually citadel low tier cruisers with HE) and you can mitigate a LOT of that HE dmg with judicious healing and appropriate captain skills and mods.

Even with going with a full fireproof/survival build the current HE Spam meta will simply overwhelm any efforts at mitigating fire damage. The higher the tier the less effective that build becomes. The only ships that can mitigate fire damage effectively are the RN battleships with the zombie heals....everyone else be prepared to lose 60-80% of your health to fire per game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,167
[DAKI]
WoWS Wiki Editor
7,430 posts
6,765 battles
1 hour ago, BBsquid said:

No offense, but do you actually play your game?

Yes, in fact there is a number of Devs who have quite a large number of games on their main accounts.

 

I believe that we somewhat are responsible ourselves for These Gimmicks. On the one Hand we want new and interesting ships, which will be somewhat different from the old ships, on the other Hand we do not want Gimmicks.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,968
[SALVO]
Members
17,565 posts
18,458 battles
48 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

HE is NOT the better ammo type, not by a long shot. You can do far more damage using AP if you know how to aim. BBs using HE on anything but bowtankers is just...lazy.

By your logic, all classes are stat padding "no matter what type of shell they shoot." 

DDs and cruisers need the HE and fires to offset the middling damage their guns do against BBs. BBs do not need to use HE except in the rarest of circumstances. Odds are there are more lucrative targets for a BB to shoot other than the bow tanking BB...

This is an ignorant statement.  You  were doing fine with the previous two statements but then screwed up with highlighted one.  There are  definitely some times when HE is the wise choice that have nothing to do with bow tanking.  Those times are when you have witnessed a BB use its DC party either to put out a fire and presumably a flood.  And at that moment, it can be a great idea to whack that enemy BB with a volley of HE to try to get a perma-fire.  You don't want to fire instantly after he puts the fire/flood out, because you don't want to hit him  during the DC party's functioning period, but just after.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,968
[SALVO]
Members
17,565 posts
18,458 battles
2 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Yes, in fact there is a number of Devs who have quite a large number of games on their main accounts.

 

I believe that we somewhat are responsible ourselves for These Gimmicks. On the one Hand we want new and interesting ships, which will be somewhat different from the old ships, on the other Hand we do not want Gimmicks.

I have no need for sister ships to be even the slightest bit different from the name ship of their class.  That's why they're part of the same class in the first place.  They're built to the same damned design!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,166 posts
10 battles
1 hour ago, BBsquid said:

Dear WG dev team,

Having been aboard for a comparatively long haul now (not as long as some) I have to ask: whats up with  adding more ridiculous gimmicks? MN BBs with speed boost, a premium with a MBRB, Hood's AA rockets, and ENTIRE line of BBs built around HE, supersaturation of radar in matches...and now the new MBRBs coming in 7.8. Really? Is it that difficult to balance a ship without ridiculous and ahistoric  doodads attached?

I have seen it asked before and I find myself scratching my head and asking the same question: No offense, but do you actually play your game? There have been some great changes over the years....and some real stinkers. I'm actually thinking that as of late, the game was in a better place back in CBT. 

Instead of these goody gimmicks can we maybe, please, nerf BB HE? While I appreciate that New Mexico, FdG, or Richelieu firing HE at my broadside when I turn to avoid torpedoes...its kinda ridiculous. While I understand its a mechanic to shorten matches, Im just gonna say again HE is not an incendiary weapon; its a blast fragmentation munition. Going beyond that, though, BBs would not fire HE at one another. Let the DDs and CA/CLs keep the HE to enable damage to BBs. For all that is holy...make the BB driver that spams HE all match suffer some penalty. Double the reload on HE to simulate the gun crews protesting poor ammo/target choices. HE flinging BBs are just stat padding damage and do not contribute much to the match.

I agree this game was a lot better during closed beta and launch. Wargaming has introduced so many gimmicks and bad ideas into the game that they have ruined what was a tactical shooter and turned it into a mindless pew pew pew fest. That is also reflected in the overall skill level of the player base.......it has taken a HUGE dive since closed beta and the first year after launch. It seems like the majority of the players are the sub 48% win rate sub 800 WTR players who do stupid stuff game after game after game. If you try to talk to them about it...be prepared to get cursed out and told they are just there to have fun and blow stuff up, winning doesn't matter. I have not played in more than two months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,122
[OPG]
Members
4,068 posts
5,832 battles

Unpopular opinion......but this entire game is based off gimmicks.  Sure, some are more notable than others, but everything from bow armor, to dispersion and sigma is really a gimmick.  The way auto bounce works, overmatch, HE penetration, fuse times, rudder shift, heals and any other arbitrary non-historical figures WG artificially controls in the name of game balance can be described as a "gimmick".   

I can understand some of the frustration over having so many new ships being balanced primarily off consumables, but at the end of the day WG has to make each and every new line somewhat unique and different in order to entice people to play them, and that means gimmicks in some form or the other.  I prefer when they're more subtle, like German cruisers having improved AP alpha at the cost of reduced HE alpha, but I don't mind the extreme gimmicks (like new consumables) if they're balanced.

Edited by yashma
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
106
[SOB]
[SOB]
Members
254 posts
3,944 battles
5 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I believe that we somewhat are responsible ourselves for These Gimmicks. On the one Hand we want new and interesting ships, which will be somewhat different from the old ships, on the other Hand we do not want Gimmicks.

You are no doubt correct. They could enhance a line without giving it gimmicks though. For the UK BBs which did have great HE & the game reflects that with the HE damage numbers. Get slapped with a salvo from the NC & Monarch & you will "feel" the difference. Why does the Monarch need to set 3 fires to boot? Isnt the extra 5k damage enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,968
[SALVO]
Members
17,565 posts
18,458 battles
1 hour ago, BBsquid said:

Dear WG dev team,

Having been aboard for a comparatively long haul now (not as long as some) I have to ask: whats up with  adding more ridiculous gimmicks? MN BBs with speed boost, a premium with a MBRB, Hood's AA rockets, and ENTIRE line of BBs built around HE, supersaturation of radar in matches...and now the new MBRBs coming in 7.8. Really? Is it that difficult to balance a ship without ridiculous and ahistoric  doodads attached?

I have seen it asked before and I find myself scratching my head and asking the same question: No offense, but do you actually play your game? There have been some great changes over the years....and some real stinkers. I'm actually thinking that as of late, the game was in a better place back in CBT. 

Instead of these goody gimmicks can we maybe, please, nerf BB HE? While I appreciate that New Mexico, FdG, or Richelieu firing HE at my broadside when I turn to avoid torpedoes...its kinda ridiculous. While I understand its a mechanic to shorten matches, Im just gonna say again HE is not an incendiary weapon; its a blast fragmentation munition. Going beyond that, though, BBs would not fire HE at one another. Let the DDs and CA/CLs keep the HE to enable damage to BBs. For all that is holy...make the BB driver that spams HE all match suffer some penalty. Double the reload on HE to simulate the gun crews protesting poor ammo/target choices. HE flinging BBs are just stat padding damage and do not contribute much to the match.

This statement shows a great lack of forethought. You criticize an enemy for shooting HE at your broadside when you turned to avoid torps.  Think about what you just said, for crying out loud!  Break down every word of that statement and tactical situation, and THINK ABOUT IT!!!  :Smile_facepalm:

Spoiler

If you turned to avoid torps and ended up showing broadside and they shot HE at that broadside, maybe they had loaded it to shoot at you before you decided to turn, when you were NOT showing them your broadside!!!  And they just shot HE because that's what they had loaded!

I've done this many times before in BBs.  You don't have any good options.  You can fire the HE because that's what's loaded, or you can wait ANOTHER 30 seconds to get AP loaded, except that you may not be showing broadside by the time that AP has been loaded!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×