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Sir_Pengu1n

Thoughts on Matchmaking

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We hear a lot of problems about ships on this forum, which includes, but is not limited to, practically any and everything that people have different opinions on. We hear problems like the power creep of new high tier premium ships. We hear problems of nerfing and buffing ships. we even hear problems about CV's, however few people really care about them However, we do not hear problems of how these ships are put into battle together.

I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the MM of WoWs, what you think its flaws are, what is good, what could be improved. Anything really.




Let the chaos ensue 
:Smile_popcorn:

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6 minutes ago, Sir_Pengu1n said:

We hear a lot of problems about ships on this forum, which includes, but is not limited to, practically any and everything that people have different opinions on. We hear problems like the power creep of new high tier premium ships. We hear problems of nerfing and buffing ships. we even hear problems about CV's, however few people really care about them However, we do not hear problems of how these ships are put into battle together.

I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the MM of WoWs, what you think its flaws are, what is good, what could be improved. Anything really.




Let the chaos ensue 
:Smile_popcorn:

Just a FYI, adding that last bit is probably going to get this thread closed.

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MM is fine, it working as intended if everyone do their bit, instead of complaining, if they did just their part to help the team, the result is fantastic.

if  players already had a negative thinking when match start, then forget it

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About half the forum posters have no problem with MM, the other half don't like it. I can only assume that those of us who use the forums are representative of the overall player base. The most cited reason in the official forums in a "I Quit" post have been matchmaking. In the negative reviews on Steam, the second most cited reason for a poor review where people left comments,  was MM, the inability to merge standard WoWS accounts with Steam accounts was number one.

Ships are balanced by tier, not by what ships they will meet in combat.  All the work Wargaming did to balance ships is just tossed out the window due to the current +2/-2. The same players who say it works just fine would holler and scream if they were required to play basketball with one arm tied behind their back or play a game of chess without being able to use their queen. The vast majority of players are average and below average, matchmaking just makes matters worse for them in many of their games. Good players don't have a big problem because they are good so they will do well no matter what. Wargaming says MM isn't a problem, but they are either lying or delusional. The mere fact that Ranked and Clan Wars are restricted to one tier proves that out. Love MM or hate it, there is a problem and we lose players because of it. If it is not addressed, WoWS will continue to stay a niche game with stagnant growth.

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55 minutes ago, Sir_Pengu1n said:

We hear a lot of problems about ships on this forum, which includes, but is not limited to, practically any and everything that people have different opinions on. We hear problems like the power creep of new high tier premium ships. We hear problems of nerfing and buffing ships. we even hear problems about CV's, however few people really care about them However, we do not hear problems of how these ships are put into battle together.

I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the MM of WoWs, what you think its flaws are, what is good, what could be improved. Anything really.




Let the chaos ensue 
:Smile_popcorn:

You clearly are new since mm rants are the staple of the forum. Now you’ll see how quickly the popcorn and memes show up.

the answer to your question is of course is stop using tier 8 ships to fill in tier 10 matches and make tier 10 only see tier 10. Also mm drives one’s win rate to 50% by throwing one with human bots once you win too many games. This is why people club in tier 3-4 divs and play cv:aa cruiser:aa dd divs to keep win rates high.

that last statement should stir the hornet’s nest for you, but i’ll kick once more just so you can enjoy more:

wg has a patent describing the aforementioned mm activity.

Edited by monpetitloup

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4 hours ago, Sir_Pengu1n said:

However, we do not hear problems of how these ships are put into battle togeth

The above is incorrect - MM is talked about often and complained about as often as BB, DD, CA, CV drivers are complained about,.  Just search the forum for MM and you will find a LOT of threads with many pages.

MM needs to incorporate radar ships so one team does not get a ton more than the other.  That is it....

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Radar isnt an MM problem. It's a radar problem and the result of bad game design. 

Personally I think MM in WoWs is really good at matching ships. There's the T8 problem, but MM is doing what its told and not just producing results in a vacuum. 

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Sign me up for the "matchmaking is fine" squad.

I don't see an issue.

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Should scroll the the first couple pages on the forum OP and you’ll see all the opinions on matchmaking - didn’t need another thread. 

That said outside of needing more T9 ships played, it’s fine.

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It may be "fine" but it is hardly "fair". I think many people defend the current matchmaking because they know their stats would suffer if forced into a fair match. I reiterate, if the current matchmaking was fine, we should be able to use +2/-2 in all competitive events like KOTS, CW, and Ranked. The fact we can not do this proves that it isn't fair and Wargaming knows it.

BTW we are talking about a game and the very nature of a game is a level playing field to give everyone a chance to win based on skill, knowledge, etc. Having the cards stacked against you is abhorrent to the very nature of games and gaming.

Edited by Taylor3006
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Who ever decided to call it the Match Maker ? Whatever it is, it is not matching. For instance, on a game after I got my new Cleveland, base hull ship, eight point captain, etc, I was put by the "MM" into an ocean map battle against almost all T9-T10 ships, which I don't play in very often. Did not even have IFHE yet. That game told me this was not a enjoyable way to spend time with my new, old friend. Is  ""MM" so smart as to know I didn't have but 3 battles in it, with no upgrades yet ? I'm below average, so does 'MM" not know about that either ? Where is the matching ?

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I think the only problem I have with matchmaking is T8 getting kicked up in the T10 matches all the time which I'm OK with but I think if you're going to do that they should have some of the perks of T10 also with all ships having a heal from T8 up

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52 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

It may be "fine" but it is hardly "fair". I think many people defend the current matchmaking because they know their stats would suffer if forced into a fair match. I reiterate, if the current matchmaking was fine, we should be able to use +2/-2 in all competitive events like KOTS, CW, and Ranked. The fact we can not do this proves that it isn't fair and Wargaming knows it.

This is flat out ridiculous, come on.

First off, everyone is subject to the matchmaker so they all feel the advantages/disadvantages equally (unless you're a div stat padder, which is a different discussion). Having T8 ships in T10 random battles isn't unfair, because each team gets the same number of T8s. When it comes to ship tiers, the matches are fair 99.999% of the time. Your team's T8 is just as vulnerable as the other team's T8.

Competitive being just a single rank doesn't have anything to do with "unfairness" of +2-2 and your statement proves nothing.

Don't get me wrong, people don't like being bottom tier but there's nothing unfair about it.

 

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1 hour ago, exray0 said:

Don't get me wrong, people don't like being bottom tier but there's nothing unfair about it.

Obviously it is unfair, otherwise we would have +2/-2 in competitive events. It really is that simple. You are delusional if you think otherwise, or you are lying. 

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3 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Obviously it is unfair, otherwise we would have +2/-2 in competitive events. It really is that simple. You are delusional if you think otherwise, or you are lying. 

Yes, go ahead and reiterate your non-point to validate your non-argument.

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Just now, exray0 said:

Yes, go ahead and reiterate your non-point to validate your non-argument.

LOL whatever. 

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Just now, Taylor3006 said:

LOL whatever. 

How about this, in what way is +2-2 unfair if each team is subject to it?

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Just now, exray0 said:

How about this, in what way is +2-2 unfair if each team is subject to it?

You are talking about unfair to the TEAM I am talking about unfair to the individuals playing low tier. This isn't rocket science, read the thread. 

If the "team" argument is to be used, why isn't +2/-2 in competitive events then? I mean it is fair if both teams are subject to it...... 

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1 hour ago, silverdahc said:

I think the only problem I have with matchmaking is T8 getting kicked up in the T10 matches all the time which I'm OK with but I think if you're going to do that they should have some of the perks of T10 also with all ships having a heal from T8 up

This I agree with right now, for sure.   I left the game for  long time after Alpha & Beta testing.   I think I played 185 games after release and left for parts unknown.. Just didn't care for where they went at release.   Tried again after recent email campaign of prizes to  lure me back a month or so ago.  Much to my surprise, found the game in a pretty good place IMO.     300 battles later I  am probably a daily player again, albeit pretty sadly terrible after 3 years.   Anyway to the point... I am really sucking badly at Tier 8 ( currently Cleveland & Baltimore )  I'd gander a guess that my battles are 75% T10 matches  and 50% of those are just a very few T8s at all... I guess its to be expected with age of the game... But it sure makes that grind a bear.    i'll fail my way to T9, but with the power creep between the tiers it really feels like T8 cruisers, especially gun only CAs just don't have much of a role in a T10 match at all.    Kind of looks like the creep from T8-T10 is pretty out of hand with maybe the exception of maybe BBs.          

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You are just all over the place here.

2 hours ago, Taylor3006 said:

I think many people defend the current matchmaking because they know their stats would suffer if forced into a fair match.

Each team has the same number of ships in each tier. When talking about ship tiers, every match is a fair match and it has nothing to do with stats. There is no statistical advantage here to be had. 

25 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

You are talking about unfair to the TEAM I am talking about unfair to the individuals playing low tier.

How is it unfair to the individuals? Everyone is subject to being low-tier starting from rank 2. It happens to everyone equally, and you're always matched up against the same tier spread on the other team. 

27 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

If the "team" argument is to be used, why isn't +2/-2 in competitive events then? I mean it is fair if both teams are subject to it...... 

Just because it is not used for competitive by itself doesn't prove that it isn't fair, and so far you haven't supplied anything of substance to support that claim. 

Lots of games narrow the options when it comes to competitive play. It allows for a sharply defined meta that people/teams can become familiar with and strategize over. When you limit the toolbox it becomes more about how well the people use the tools.

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22 minutes ago, exray0 said:

* Snipped for brevity *

I have posted multiple hundreds of times in the hundreds of matchmaking threads over the course of my two years playing the game. In that time I have seen lots of arguments defending +2/-2 but yours is by far the one that lacks the most self awareness yet. Again I put to you, if +2/-2 was fair, why isn't it used in competitive matches? The fact you are saying it is fair to the team in Random battles should be a defense to use it in competitive play.  All the "tools" talk is horse feces, it isn't allowed because it isn't fair. 

If you want an education on the subject you are blathering on about, I suggest PopeShizzle's expertly done post on MM. The thread is one of the longest in the history of the forum on game related material that isn't a sticky. Although I don't agree with all that Pope has to say about MM, he makes a good case and the thread garnered the attention of vast numbers of the player base on both sides of the MM issue. The fairness issue was conceded early because it was obvious that it wasn't fair and was done by players with far more experience than you or I. 

Edited by Taylor3006

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5 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Again I put to you, if +2/-2 was fair

Without reading a 50 page thread for 2016, can you please describe in your own words why +2-2 isn't fair?

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2 hours ago, exray0 said:

This is flat out ridiculous, come on.

First off, everyone is subject to the matchmaker so they all feel the advantages/disadvantages equally (unless you're a div stat padder, which is a different discussion). Having T8 ships in T10 random battles isn't unfair, because each team gets the same number of T8s. When it comes to ship tiers, the matches are fair 99.999% of the time. Your team's T8 is just as vulnerable as the other team's T8.

Competitive being just a single rank doesn't have anything to do with "unfairness" of +2-2 and your statement proves nothing.

Don't get me wrong, people don't like being bottom tier but there's nothing unfair about it.

 

What  you missed was that the two T8 players you refer to aren't matched to the other contestants in the battle. For a below average player, playing T8 is not easy in these battles. I was being stuffed into them with a base Bismarck after about 5 battles worth of experience, and by 45 battles had a 32% win rate. If I played T9/10, I would see it your way (you have weaker ship, so do we, now lets battle).

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5 minutes ago, exray0 said:

Without reading a 50 page thread for 2016, can you please describe in your own words why +2-2 isn't fair?

If you are that lazy then no. If you can not see the inherent unfairness in putting a tier 8 ship against tier 10 ships then you lack the mental capacity. You lack the self awareness of your own argument, you are just being a troll. 

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24 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

If you are that lazy then no. If you can not see the inherent unfairness in putting a tier 8 ship against tier 10 ships then you lack the mental capacity. You lack the self awareness of your own argument, you are just being a troll. 

I don't think it's unfair because there is another T8 ship on the other team in the same situation. And because you can't describe why you think it's unfair, I guess we're done.

 

28 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

What  you missed was that the two T8 players you refer to aren't matched to the other contestants in the battle. For a below average player, playing T8 is not easy in these battles. I was being stuffed into them with a base Bismarck after about 5 battles worth of experience, and by 45 battles had a 32% win rate. If I played T9/10, I would see it your way (you have weaker ship, so do we, now lets battle).

Skill based/ELO matchmaking has been discussed to death, along with the pros and cons. Count me in the con column, because I don't think a game where nobody can get above 50% winrate is very fun, just ask this years clan battle participants.

Edited by exray0

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