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capncrunch21

Changes to Co-op play with 7.8 come with an XP increase?

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The patch notes for update 7.8 state:

In Update 0.7.8, we have further improved the logic of bots in Co-op Battles. The bots will now be more responsive to the dynamic and changing situations of battle.

So, as we all know, this means that bots with be tougher to defeat.

Where's the patch note saying XP will be increased to compensate for this more infuriating gameplay higher challenge? 

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21 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

The patch notes for update 7.8 state:

In Update 0.7.8, we have further improved the logic of bots in Co-op Battles. The bots will now be more responsive to the dynamic and changing situations of battle.

So, as we all know, this means that bots with be tougher to defeat.

Where's the patch note saying XP will be increased to compensate for this more infuriating gameplay higher challenge? 

If they buff them to low level training bots, co-op games will last far longer, and with the average co-op player, far less certain of the outcome.

I don't know for sure this is the level they are pushing them to, but the training room bots are far more fearful, unlikely to yolo and dance away from fire at unicum levels. 

They still retain all their other cheats though. :Smile_teethhappy:

And no, I doubt they will improve payouts, seems like they are simply trying to make players more competitive, not realizing this won't have the desired effect.....

Edited by awiggin

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@capncrunch21 and @awiggin the PT 7.8 co op did not pay out any better so don't expect that. The AI bots did play better attacking in formations or line of battle much like a Clan/Team would do rather than scatter and charge the first enemy they encounter.

Also as much as some would like and often state the AI Bots do not cheat they are stock without the upgrades/captain skills available to us the compu just thinks and acts faster than we humans do!

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  Well, if it does have the effect of making games last longer, I'm all for that.   The constant >5 and 6 minute games are irritating as hell.  Particularly when the "short bus" bots lay down and die with barely a whimper...   If they finally fixed the annoying obsessive focus on a single ship- esp a DD, then I'll be REALLY happy.

  If it's just the aggression level 12 uber bots every battle, I'm NOT all for that.

  We'll just have to wait and see if they strike the right balance with this tweak.

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10 hours ago, capncrunch21 said:

The patch notes for update 7.8 state:

In Update 0.7.8, we have further improved the logic of bots in Co-op Battles. The bots will now be more responsive to the dynamic and changing situations of battle.

So, as we all know, this means that bots with be tougher to defeat.

Where's the patch note saying XP will be increased to compensate for this more infuriating gameplay higher challenge? 

Because it's co-op. Everyone playing there wants a chillax mode, and they accept the low rewards.

Bots are predictable anyways. Humans aren't. If you want increased XP, fight other people in pvp or pull 5-star Scenario wins.

 

Can see where you're coming from. Co-op presumably will be harder, so of course rewards should scale. However, WOWS is primarily a pvp game, and WG has the final say on these matters, no matter who dislikes it.

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Here's how to make co-op fun: randomly have a standard game mode where the enemy team consists of nothing but yammies and minos regardless of tier, and those bots camp on their cap rather than mindlessly yolo.

Or, you face all t10 DDs in a hurricane and radar is disabled.

If you beat the bots you get 25% more credits and XP. 

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17 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@capncrunch21 and @awiggin the PT 7.8 co op did not pay out any better so don't expect that. The AI bots did play better attacking in formations or line of battle much like a Clan/Team would do rather than scatter and charge the first enemy they encounter.

Also as much as some would like and often state the AI Bots do not cheat they are stock without the upgrades/captain skills available to us the compu just thinks and acts faster than we humans do!

Lol. The bots have certain cheats built in. The devs acknowledged that in 0.7.8 patch notes when they updated the bot reflexes for Ultimate FU. 

If you play high tier bots the cheats become very obvious.

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8 minutes ago, Scotty_SE said:

Here's how to make co-op fun: randomly have a standard game mode where the enemy team consists of nothing but yammies and minos regardless of tier, and those bots camp on their cap rather than mindlessly yolo.

Or, you face all t10 DDs in a hurricane and radar is disabled.

If you beat the bots you get 25% more credits and XP. 

Not sure whether  you are joking or not but your ideas actually have some merit. A bot team of powerful ships could actually be fun, probably need a tier restriction though as a tier 4 isn't going to have much chance against tier 10 ships, even bot ships. Different modes would be welcome in PvE, heck I really wish they would put Bastion in co-op since it seemed perfect for that mode. A random map generator used only in co-op would be fun as well since map "fairness" really isn't an issue in PvE.

Edited by Taylor3006

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@Taichunger Whatever you care to believe. I suppose you would have the AI bots programmed to just move in a line from spawn to map edge or whatever they run into on the way and not fire weapons at all or perhaps just wildly shoot and launch torpedoes as they cruise along to their doom. What you perceive as Cheats are nothing more than their programming to make them act as if a human was controlling them. It is just to bad if you are not good enough to be successful against them!

You down voters are a trip! Use them up here and spare someone else! Come on pour them on! They still wont change the TRUTH!

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I'm curious to see how the new bots do; I've been popping into Coop the last month or so.

Yesterday, I saw a bot (on my team, a DD) pop smoke and fire from the smoke. I've never seen one do that before. They normally just charge ahead, pop smoke and keep moving toward the target, giving up all cover.

And yes, I have the replay.

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COOP players don't deserve any XP increase, easy play low XP, as it should.

but im sure the participation award generation will say otherwise.

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25 minutes ago, iOSDeveloper said:

COOP players don't deserve any XP increase, easy play low XP, as it should.

but im sure the participation award generation will say otherwise.

ROFL well take it from someone who was born before Kennedy was assassinated, your response is pathetic and obviously is made out of ignorance of the subject being addressed. If the co-op bots are being buffed, then MAYBE an increase would be in order. I know reading comprehension is difficult, possibly a problem with whatever generation you hail from.  

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The bots cheat enough as it is... with their perfect aim, improved sigma values, ability to auto-dodge torps and always knowing where you are, whether you've been "spotted" or not.

I just wish their TACTICS were improved, instead of sailing full steam straight ahead, pushing the center of maps and all chasing after the first DD to be spotted it would be nice if they could flank, retreat, prioritize something besides the squishiest thing spotted, etc. 

As far as co-op matches being too short, making them 10v10 instead of 8v8 would go a long way towards improving that.

Oh and, most importantly, MAKE THE MM TIMER 1 MINUTE! If I wanted to play a single-player naval game I'd load up Battle Stations Pacific.

Edited by Gen_Saris
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47 minutes ago, iOSDeveloper said:

COOP players don't deserve any XP increase, easy play low XP, as it should.

but im sure the participation award generation will say otherwise.

Its this crummy 'holier than thou' attitude that ticks off the coop players.  The point here is the bots are no longer predictable and have gotten harder to defeat. It also seems that with this update, this increase in quality of the AI opponent is going to get better permanently.   That will make the casual gameplay of coop harder, which may be better.  But the OP is correct, the rewards should scale with the improvement, as that's only fair.  I expect that may happen with a subsequent patch.

The days of looking down your smug nose at "bots" are coming to an end.  Just like with autonomously driving cars, their reflexes are (about to be) better than a humans.  That's why some people call the new bots "cheaters" when in fact they are merely just better.   Frankly if the trend of improving bot play continues, Random will eventually become the baby mode.   This game is inevitably changing...

Edited by nagasakee
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38 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

Oh and, most importantly, MAKE THE MM TIMER 1 MINUTE! If I wanted to play a single-player naval game I'd load up Battle Stations Pacific.

AMEN! God I wish they would make this one freaking simple change to the mode and it would be awesome. The 30 second timer is a PITA and needs to be dumped. BTW people been asking for this since it has been implemented, Wargaming just isn't interested in feedback from actual players who use the mode..... 

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Interesting timing for WG to bump up the difficulty of co-op. I will have to test it out for myself.
Of course, if it gets noticably harder, perhaps an increase in payout would be in order. Still, the low-risk low-difficulty nature of co-op would not change, and WG intend co-op to be a stepping stone instead of a destination... co-op grinds will remain long and tedious, I recon.

Edited by The_first_harbinger

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2 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Interesting timing for WG to bump up the difficulty of co-op. I will have to test it out for myself.
Of course, if it gets noticably harder, perhaps an increase in payout would be in order. Still, the low-risk low-difficulty nature of co-op would not change, and WG intend co-op to be a stepping stone instead of a destination... co-op grinds will remain long and tedious, I recon.

 

could you please link an official WG statement that supports your contention here?

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1 minute ago, nagasakee said:

could you please link an official WG statement that supports your contention here?

It can be easily inferred. All ships are balanced around PvP stats and experiences, achievements, titles, badges, events, campaigns, ranked, clan battles, etc.

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1 minute ago, The_first_harbinger said:

It can be easily inferred. All ships are balanced around PvP stats and experiences, achievements, titles, badges, events, campaigns, ranked, clan battles, etc.

so. no, you can't. 

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On 8/21/2018 at 10:22 AM, capncrunch21 said:

The patch notes for update 7.8 state:

In Update 0.7.8, we have further improved the logic of bots in Co-op Battles. The bots will now be more responsive to the dynamic and changing situations of battle.

So, as we all know, this means that bots with be tougher to defeat.

Where's the patch note saying XP will be increased to compensate for this more infuriating gameplay higher challenge? 

Nope. Just played about a dozen coop battles at different tiers. I didn't see any changes in bot logic. Same silly ramming crap. Same obsessive chasing the DD. Same targeting ships kilometers away when green ships are right next to them. Same cheats. Played Okhotnik and had zero trouble yoloing BBs with torps. 

Hopefully changes occur friday when all the anniversary stuff kicks in. 

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13 minutes ago, nagasakee said:

could you please link an official WG statement that supports your contention here?

Actually they made this statement a long time ago, before I started playing. They said that they were surprised that so many people found the mode worth playing and it caught them off guard (something to that effect). I always found that stupid because PvE games were always far more popular than PvP games. The fact is that they no longer think that way and is why Scenario mode was added and much work has been done with PvE mode over the time I have played. Since they are tweaking the AI, it kind of proves that they no longer think of PvE as a "training room" or the like. 

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1 minute ago, Taylor3006 said:

Actually they made this statement a long time ago, before I started playing. They said that they were surprised that so many people found the mode worth playing and it caught them off guard (something to that effect). I always found that stupid because PvE games were always far more popular than PvP games. The fact is that they no longer think that way and is why Scenario mode was added and much work has been done with PvE mode over the time I have played. Since they are tweaking the AI, it kind of proves that they no longer think of PvE as a "training room" or the like. 

Yep, agree completely.   As I mentioned, the game changes inexorably.

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4 minutes ago, nagasakee said:

Yep, agree completely.   As I mentioned, the game changes inexorably.

BTW the PvP elitists will point out the statement from Wargaming when denigrating co-op and co-op players saying that they never intended people to play. Get used to hearing it, they still say it lots. 

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2 hours ago, RevTKS said:

I'm curious to see how the new bots do; I've been popping into Coop the last month or so.

Yesterday, I saw a bot (on my team, a DD) pop smoke and fire from the smoke. I've never seen one do that before. They normally just charge ahead, pop smoke and keep moving toward the target, giving up all cover.

And yes, I have the replay.

You HAD the replay; the new patch has now made it invalid unless you already put it on Twitch, YT, etc.

I think pointyhairedjedi on YT has a bunch of old clients that he can play just about any replay on; you might want to send it to him if you need to get it translated.

 

I'm going to wait a couple of weeks and see for myself how this all works out. I'm going to want to try my revamped (HE-slinging) Black Swan out anyway, before I try taking it back into Randoms after the change, so that will possibly be tonight's activity.

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