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SeaView_

Why do they blame the DD?

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I do not make many posts, but this burns me up so i am making one.

I can never understand why players will fail to support their dd then blame the DD for losing the game. I watch time and time again teams say take this cap the DD goes and tries and at the first spot the DD makes his support turns and runs away..OR.. they ask the dd to take a cap and then they do not even head that way to support him at all.... yet they blame the DD for the cap not being taken. When the smart DD see they have no support and do not try and take the cap when they know things do not look right for it the team yells at them and blames them for the cap not being taken. Folks if you do not support your DD how can you blame them. Now dd that go out on their own and yolo sure their fault they died, but when you ask them to do something support them. If you not going to support them for something you want them to do then do not ask them to do it. 

 

Rant off

Edited by SeaView_
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Radar, lack of support and a few other reasons are why destroyers are not wanting to cap anymore right at the start till they see what is going on. I do not rush into cap anymore unless I have either a division backing me up or i know the players/clans backing me up. Random players i never count on for anything. 

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Depends on what you mean by support. Where and how a DD sails determines how effective support can be. Yoloing caps in the first minute in a T10 match? You're asking for your "support" to get deleted.

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1 hour ago, SeaView_ said:

I do not make many posts, but this burns me up so i am making one.

I can never understand why players will fail to support their dd then blame the DD for losing the game. I watch time and time again teams say take this cap the DD goes and tries and at the first spot the DD makes his support turns and runs away..OR.. they ask the dd to take a cap and then they do not even head that way to support him at all.... yet they blame the DD for the cap not being taken. When the smart DD see they have no support and do not try and take the cap when they know things do not look right for it the team yells at them and blames them for the cap not being taken. Folks if you do not support your DD how can you blame them. Now dd that go out on their own and yolo sure their fault they died, but when you ask them to do something support them. If you not going to support them for something you want them to do then do not ask them to do it. 

 

Rant off

Because while a few crawled out recently, there's a lack of CV's to blame. They don't help the CV's either by sticking in groups so the CV has less area to cover with fighters, and AA is overlapped so the cover is a little less critical, they don't nuke the AA cruisers so our planes can even get near a cap in some cases, keep the DD/fast stealth cruiser, and in one case a damned BATTLESHIP, from sneaking through the lines to hit us (and before anyone says it my bombers were rearming and my fighters were engaged, and ships still spot a BB first anyway cause plane range is always way lower to spot things), and any other shred of teamwork that would help the team win. And then blame us.

Mostly because in "common knowledge", or rather "severely outdated information that has become misinformation" - CV's are OP, and DD's are OP second only to CV's. Both were true, at one point, about 2-3 years ago for a CV and year, maybe 2 ago for DD's. But while some things make CV's broken and OP in the right scenario (Midway's setup, higher tier CV's with manual drop vs lower tier ships), AA and other changes have nerfed them hard, this isn't alpha/beta where a CV could easily rack up 300k+ damage without manual drop let alone with. Same with DD's when even hydro was still new, and IJN tech tree had 10 km torps with decent stealth, at tier 5, and then Shima, they were a damned nightmare. Various changes to torps (went way overboard on IJN torp detection nerf on anything not called Shimakaze), smoke, not even just more hydro but radar becoming a more and more prevalent thing, the days of specifically IJN DD's ruling the sea is long over. Now other DD's are doing good because they now have better torps than IJN, as well as guns, HP, speed, etc with PA DD's in a whole other league due to DW torps, but while they have all supplanted IJN Hydro, smoke changes even more so (as most of these are gun ships) and radar have lessened there ability too. To say nothing other open water fire stealth removal and the fact the spotted time for DD's and cruisers after firing is way too damned high. 

 

Easier to blame them then admit the team failed, barring yeah, DD yolo suicide. Much as the team still has to try and win.

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As a DD main with numerous T10 DDs, and rank #1 achieved... Do what I do... Tell em to $()(k it.

 

Absolutely nothing will be or can be captured until your teammates remove all of the radar cruisers out of the equation or you squeek by on dumb luck. You are of no use to them dead.

Your job isn't to scout to their beckon and call. You are not a guinea pig to be sent across no-mans land only to get splattered and satisfy their curiosity.

It is human nature to be terrified of what we cannot see, and you're on the crap end of the stick, and when you decide to have a higher I.Q. than your teammates, they will ridicule you for not following the Lemmings...


As a DD player, you are most likely more aware of your surroundings than any other class as they frequently suffer from "tunnel vision". You do what you do because you have information and knowledge that they do not. Just ignore them and proceed when safety warrants it.

You are the goDD. Each match goes as the destroyers dictate as they are the spearhead of the force. The eyes. The equalizers. The ones getting the really dangerous work done. The cruisers and battleships work for YOU. Not the other way around...

 

 

 

 

Edited by ElectroVeeDub
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The Official World of Warships Blame Hierarchy

  1. Carrier(s)
  2. Destroyer(s)
  3. Weekend Warrior(s)
  4. Camping battleship(s)
  5. Lack of support
  6. RNG
  7. Broken mechanic(s)
  8. Hacks
  9. Aliens

...

1,437. Getting outplayed by a superior opponent.

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Same reason people blame any number of things - MM, DDs, CAs, BBs, and CVs at one time or another are to blame for losing.  Hell a buy in a game this last weekend said he set up the ENTIRE team up for victory, while not giving out ANY advice on positioning/strategy to anyone, and it was the rest of the team that caused the loss.

In high tier games - don't try and take caps immediately.  The games are slow enough most of the time that caps can be retaken and point clawed back.  Hell - just preventing the other team form capping is keeping points away from the reds and that is a good thing.

Edited by CylonRed

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1 hour ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Your job isn't to scout to their beckon and call. You are not a guinea pig to be sent across no-mans land only to get splattered and satisfy their curiosity.

I think you understand the DD role, but this statement is off.  Early in the game, the most IMPORTANT role for a destroyer is to spot for the team.  With the lowest detection, destroyers can move forward, spot the reds, and give your team something to shoot at.  Of course the destroyer player has to be very careful when doing this to avoid radar cruisers, lower detection destroyers, and x2+ destroyer overmatches.  But, nothing starts the landslide rolling faster than one team being able to begin pounding on the other while the other can see nothing to shoot back at.

Capping early is neat, but thinning out the reds is the most important thing.  Capping early is certainly not worth losing DD's for.  Once the reds are thinned out, then the DD's become very important to quickly move to cap or re-cap areas.

As a frequent DD player, when I am playing a DD or CA and one of my IJN DD team mates parks behind an island, I also get frustrated.  What is he doing there?  He sure as heck isn't spotting anything.  Is he taking a time out?  Is he waiting for the reds to come onto our side of the map for a wicked cool ambush?  Useless.  With the lowest detection values in the game, he should be scouting ahead and locating targets.

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25 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

I think you understand the DD role, but this statement is off.  Early in the game, the most IMPORTANT role for a destroyer is to spot for the team.  With the lowest detection, destroyers can move forward, spot the reds, and give your team something to shoot at.  Of course the destroyer player has to be very careful when doing this to avoid radar cruisers, lower detection destroyers, and x2+ destroyer overmatches.  But, nothing starts the landslide rolling faster than one team being able to begin pounding on the other while the other can see nothing to shoot back at.

Capping early is neat, but thinning out the reds is the most important thing.  Capping early is certainly not worth losing DD's for.  Once the reds are thinned out, then the DD's become very important to quickly move to cap or re-cap areas.

As a frequent DD player, when I am playing a DD or CA and one of my IJN DD team mates parks behind an island, I also get frustrated.  What is he doing there?  He sure as heck isn't spotting anything.  Is he taking a time out?  Is he waiting for the reds to come onto our side of the map for a wicked cool ambush?  Useless.  With the lowest detection values in the game, he should be scouting ahead and locating targets.

that is a big point right there.

 

Not all DDs are able to silently move in and take a cap, nor are some DDs able to knife-fight at close range contesting a cap. Alot of other players just simply do not understand that your 6 to 7km detection ranged DD is not going to be able to move into a cap as they will be spotted by that 5km detection ranged DD. Nor will you slow traversing turrets easily track the fast moving gunboat that is currently ripping you apart.

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4 hours ago, SeaView_ said:

I do not make many posts, but this burns me up so i am making one.

I can never understand why players will fail to support their dd then blame the DD for losing the game. I watch time and time again teams say take this cap the DD goes and tries and at the first spot the DD makes his support turns and runs away..OR.. they ask the dd to take a cap and then they do not even head that way to support him at all.... yet they blame the DD for the cap not being taken. When the smart DD see they have no support and do not try and take the cap when they know things do not look right for it the team yells at them and blames them for the cap not being taken. Folks if you do not support your DD how can you blame them. Now dd that go out on their own and yolo sure their fault they died, but when you ask them to do something support them. If you not going to support them for something you want them to do then do not ask them to do it. 

 

Rant off

That's what people do in this game. Whine, cry, rant, and blame others. DD players do it too however it isn't just the other ship class players.

If people who played the game actually just played, cooperated, and stopped pissing and moaning over every aspect of the game and game play I think the sun would go out and life would cease to exist.

Death, taxes, and people whining about something in WOWS! All a given. :Smile_teethhappy: 

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5 hours ago, SeaView_ said:

I do not make many posts, but this burns me up so i am making one.

I can never understand why players will fail to support their dd then blame the DD for losing the game. I watch time and time again teams say take this cap the DD goes and tries and at the first spot the DD makes his support turns and runs away..OR.. they ask the dd to take a cap and then they do not even head that way to support him at all.... yet they blame the DD for the cap not being taken. When the smart DD see they have no support and do not try and take the cap when they know things do not look right for it the team yells at them and blames them for the cap not being taken. Folks if you do not support your DD how can you blame them. Now dd that go out on their own and yolo sure their fault they died, but when you ask them to do something support them. If you not going to support them for something you want them to do then do not ask them to do it. 

 

Rant off

I tell everyone in chat up front if I don't intend to Cap.  If I see radar on the other side, I wait until I know where it's at.  And then I ask if radar boats are spotted, they focus them.  It doesn't always work but some of the time setting expectations up front reduces the flames.  Other times I'll ask the team if they want me solo cap and die early.  Most of the time someone will chime in and back me up for not trying to Cap.

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I play plenty of destroyers, especially in high tier. DDs get blamed a lot simply because a lot of DDs don't make the plays that are needed to help the team to win.

No, this does not mean you should rush caps at the start of the game. Dying at the start of the game is very bad.

I tend to stay somewhat close to the objectives so I can get to it if I need to. If there is radar presence, don't get caught by it. Do not expect your team to support you or bail you out when you get into a sticky situation. You can still try to cap when there is radar pressure, but always prepare a way out. Spotting for the team is also important. While spotting is not very rewarding, it is massively helpful for your team. Too many DDs in randoms don't bother with this aspect of destroyer play. 

Sending torps down torp alleys or other obvious spots is very useful. Getting a hit on an unspotted enemy DD is massive. 

Edited by mrmariokartguy
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Typically I'll try join up with at least one DD in one of my CAs to give more artillery reach for them against enemy DD's and some protection from other CAs. 

Edited by Aurora_7

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6 hours ago, Harv72b said:

The Official World of Warships Blame Hierarchy

  1. Carrier(s)
  2. Destroyer(s)
  3. Weekend Warrior(s)
  4. Camping battleship(s)
  5. Lack of support
  6. RNG
  7. Broken mechanic(s)
  8. Hacks
  9. Aliens

...

1,437. Getting outplayed by a superior opponent.

I have a new sig. Thanks.

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6 hours ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Your job isn't to scout to their beckon and call. You are not a guinea pig to be sent across no-mans land only to get splattered and satisfy their curiosity

I'm adding this, too.

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9 hours ago, SeaView_ said:

I do not make many posts, but this burns me up so i am making one.

I can never understand why players will fail to support their dd then blame the DD for losing the game. I watch time and time again teams say take this cap the DD goes and tries and at the first spot the DD makes his support turns and runs away..OR.. they ask the dd to take a cap and then they do not even head that way to support him at all.... yet they blame the DD for the cap not being taken. When the smart DD see they have no support and do not try and take the cap when they know things do not look right for it the team yells at them and blames them for the cap not being taken. Folks if you do not support your DD how can you blame them. Now dd that go out on their own and yolo sure their fault they died, but when you ask them to do something support them. If you not going to support them for something you want them to do then do not ask them to do it. 

 

Rant off

A smart dd player will abuse his concealment and kill the ships around the cap, then take the cap once that is done. As a dd player once you realize that you don't have any support, at that point you need to rely on concealment and your own skill. A hard lesson I learned was don't trust random teammates. If they come to your aid, thats great, but don't expect it.

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6 hours ago, Harv72b said:

The Official World of Warships Blame Hierarchy

  1. Carrier(s)
  2. Destroyer(s)
  3. Weekend Warrior(s)
  4. Camping battleship(s)
  5. Lack of support
  6. RNG
  7. Broken mechanic(s)
  8. Hacks
  9. Aliens

...

1,437. Getting outplayed by a superior opponent.

  1. Matchmaker
  2. Aircraft Carriers
  3. Destroyers
  4. Hacks (aim-assist)
  5. Battleships
  6. Players (lack of support)
  7. Radar
  8. RNG
  9. Fire
  10. HE Spam
  11. Torpedoes
  12. Deepwater Torpedoes
  13. AP
  14. Step 3
  15. Themselves

I'm a hypocrite, so I might be angry at you or I might understand what you are doing. It just depends on what I see on the minimap. For me personally, I like to get close to a Cap but not take it. Rather I coarse the enemy by making myself known so that they shoot me and get themselves spotted.

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When we say the game was lost because of dds or whatever, it is not a blame or an insult, really.
It's just a blank pale statement, that our destroyers was in general out played or not skilled enough to take enough objectives. Sure, perhaps the cruisers and the battleships are not being entirely supportive, but the problem lies with our inability to provide support to begin with.

Of course, from tier VII and up ships of other classes were able to start supporting destroyers by using their concealment and pushing up with the destroyers, but even then most of the time there's nothing the cruisers and the battleship can do, as much as we would like.

Keep in mind, we don't always blame destroyers. Noob CVs, Yolo cruisers, Camping bbs, there are many ways to lose a battle even if the dds did their best. Don't take it too personally, dd mains.

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Every game in a DD, I tell the team in a short message what I'm doing.

"Capping A"

"Scouting west, then capping B"

"Scouting east until I know where their radar is."

You don't have to do this, but I've found that the team yells less when they know you have a reason for doing what you're doing. So many DDs just wander aimlessly around the map doing nothing to help the team. 

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17 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Every game in a DD, I tell the team in a short message what I'm doing.

"Capping A"

"Scouting west, then capping B"

"Scouting east until I know where their radar is."

You don't have to do this, but I've found that the team yells less when they know you have a reason for doing what you're doing. So many DDs just wander aimlessly around the map doing nothing to help the team. 

Communicating is part of the game. I will do my best to say what I am doing but I will do it better in Ryujo.

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Being a DD these days isn't easy.

You get blamed for not capping early and you get blamed for sucking bricks because you tried to cap and got deleted.

It is normally a bit friendlier in the lower tiers (also less radar).

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7 hours ago, Harv72b said:

The Official World of Warships Blame Hierarchy

  1. Carrier(s)
  2. Destroyer(s)
  3. Weekend Warrior(s)
  4. Camping battleship(s)
  5. Lack of support
  6. RNG
  7. Broken mechanic(s)
  8. Hacks
  9. Aliens

...

1,437. Getting outplayed by a superior opponent.

Fix that, because that would be a reasonable answer. No one playing WoWs would ever think about that answer.

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