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thecoffeeguy

Dealing with strong AA ships..how?

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As someone who has started to play CV's again (only tier 6), I was looking for some tips on dealing with ships that have very strong AA. Being tier 6 (both IJN and USN), if I get into a tier 8 match, it is brutal. I am learning to know what ships have AA, but honestly, I feel useless trying to do anything with a tier 8 ship with good AA. Sending my planes in is sending them into a buzz saw. there is nothing i can do.

 

I was hoping for tips/feedback/recommendations from more experienced CV players out there. What i should do, not do, captain skills etc.

Thanks

 

TCG

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Stay away from them. That's really the best you can do. Spot them for other teammates and hope they deal with it.

If you really must attack them (they're the only ones left), then try to attack the ones that have been spammed by HE. They may have lost enough AA mounts for you to get a strike in. However, you still might lose entire squads to the remaining AA and you're just going to have to accept that.

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20 minutes ago, thecoffeeguy said:

I was hoping for tips/feedback/recommendations from more experienced CV players out there. What i should do, not do, captain skills etc.

I don't play CVs but from what I understand, if a ship has defensive AA You need to bait them into using it, leave the AA bubble and then return when it is on cool down. When up against a good AA ship, you have to let your team soften them up with HE before you bring in your planes. AA modules get knocked out quite easily. Watch Femennenly videos.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=femennenly

 

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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Stay away from them until they have been beaten down by other ships. Their AA modules are usually disabled/destroyed by HE hits so if you see team mates battering them you may be more safe to attack. Your buzz saw comparison is correct! I think US Texas and/or Atlanta are the first stay away from ships you will encounter in tiers 4, 5 and 6 after that being cautious around almost any tier 7 and up is almost a given.

 

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As an AA guy, the answer is not much. Against a higher tier AA BB or CA/L, you're not going to be able to do much. Avoiding them is really the only option, as they will knock down everything before they can drop ordnance. I once had a Ryujo target my NC the entire game. He hit me with one torpedo out of all those strikes.

Equal or lower tier you can damage, but don't expect many planes to make it back. A full on strike from a T9 or T10 CV will do serious damage to my Montana, but there isn't going to be much going home.

A high tier AA cruiser with DEFAA, forget it. That DM will outright vaporize the whole strike before you can move them out of range.

That said, HE wrecks AA. Even a good AA ship is going to struggle after being hosed with HE for a bit. Wait until you see a ship that has been spammed good, even a DEFAA charge is only going to help so much if 50% of the AA guns are gone. It won't be pretty, but at least it won't be suicide.

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When attempting to strike an AA ship:

Wait as long as you can before attempting, let their AA mounts get whittled down.

Bait their AA with fighters and dive bombers, send in torpedo bombers just as your DB are attacking.

Trying to overwhelm their AA is the only chance.

Another thing you can try, is to launch torpedoes at max range.

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vs an isolated AA ship, you can try stacking your strike planes together. Of course, even then, weigh up the risks/benefits (and certain losses).

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Find targets away from heavy AA ships.  You'll see them everywhere,  generally sailing in straight lines.  Bide your time,  and if an AA ship is guarding a particularly juicy target,  maybe request the team do something about them.  I mean usually they are cruisers,  and usually people flock to eat cruisers quickly,  but sometimes one escapes notice.  

In those times where you HAVE to assault an AA ship,  send in everything at once if you know they've burned defensive fire.  If not,  bait it out ((Wait for your targeting circle to bloom,  then run)) and THEN send in everyone.  AA fire is split among all current flights ((Throw your fighters in there for escort duty if they aren't running anti-bomber duty)) and the enemy will either be forced to click on your individual squads ((Good AA captains will do this,  generally to your torpedo bombers first)) or let their AA stay diluted.

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On 8/20/2018 at 8:01 AM, Flashtirade said:

Stay away from them. That's really the best you can do. Spot them for other teammates and hope they deal with it.

If you really must attack them (they're the only ones left), then try to attack the ones that have been spammed by HE. They may have lost enough AA mounts for you to get a strike in. However, you still might lose entire squads to the remaining AA and you're just going to have to accept that.

Also, the AA gets stronger the higher in tier you go.  It's really a terrible feeling being a Tier VIII CV in a Tier X match.  It's like a Ryujo / Independence trying to attack an AA Spec North Carolina, Kii kind of bad, but worse.  Then you got the insane, long range AA Cruisers of High Tier, culminating with AA monstrosities like Neptune, Minotaur, Seattle, Worcester.  DM, Hindenburg may not have the long range AA of those listed CLs, but their range is respectable and the DPS insane, especially if they kept Defensive Fire.

 

Flashtirade's warning about expecting heavy losses against even a battered AA BB needs to be heeded.  I have an AA spec Alabama.  There was a case where some properly played Atlanta and Schors hammered the living hell out of me.  The enemy Ryujo was smart and he let those 2 CLs batter me to 1/3 of my HP before sending his full bomber compliment to finish me off.  He smartly figured that the HE spam destroyed my AA.  Except that I had AAM1 installed and my AA / Secondary Modules survived in good amount.  The killer was that all my 127mm DP turrets survived, so as soon as the bombers entered 7.2km of my 'Bama, they were immediately starting to get ripped apart despite the low HP levels of my BB.

 

The Ryujo landed all of 1-2 DB hits and his bombers were completely annihilated.  He got on chat asking how the hell that happened.  He did everything he was supposed to, he bided his time to let the Cruisers wear my AA BB down.  But my AA mounts still survived intact, especially the dangerous 127mm DP turrets which are the heart of USN BB AA.  A bunch of 20mm, 40mm AA guns got rekt, but all my 127mm DP turrets survived to shred planes.

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27 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

But my AA mounts still survived intact, especially the dangerous 127mm DP turrets which are the heart of USN BB AA.  A bunch of 20mm, 40mm AA guns got rekt, but all my 127mm DP turrets survived to shred planes.

Just wondering the mechanics of this. I assume each mount has a predetermined number (HP value) that needs to be exceeded to destroy it. But is this a cumulative damage to the mount or does each hit check the number individually? i.e. if your mount takes 15 pts to destroy and you take 2 hits of 10pts each, if cumulative, the mount is destroyed. If individual, the mount is just fine and can keep taking those 10 pt hits all day. AAM1 would of course increase the 15 pt value.

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On 8/21/2018 at 4:38 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Just wondering the mechanics of this. I assume each mount has a predetermined number (HP value) that needs to be exceeded to destroy it. But is this a cumulative damage to the mount or does each hit check the number individually? i.e. if your mount takes 15 pts to destroy and you take 2 hits of 10pts each, if cumulative, the mount is destroyed. If individual, the mount is just fine and can keep taking those 10 pt hits all day. AAM1 would of course increase the 15 pt value.

As I understand it, it's a dice roll, not hit points.  So, to use your numbers as an example, the first hit would have a 10 in 15 chance of smashing the mount, and if it survived, the second would have a 10 in 15 chance, and so on and so forth.  A 20-damage hit would smash the mount immediately.

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Step 1: Locate AA threat.
Step 2: Press F3.
Step 3: Wait for allies to HE the ever-loving %&$# out of it (bonus points if you get an RN BB to help).
Step 4: Send in the planes if it's not dead.
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit.

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On 8/24/2018 at 8:27 PM, DeMatt said:

As I understand it, it's a dice roll, not hit points.  So, to use your numbers as an example, the first hit would have a 10 in 15 chance of smashing the mount, and if it survived, the second would have a 10 in 15 chance, and so on and so forth.  A 20-damage hit would smash the mount immediately.

Thanks. As a follow-on, I have heard some suggest that dead mounts still provide "protection" for ships in that the dead mount takes the hit so the shell doesn't continue on to hit something else. Is this true and, if so, will it stop large AP rounds? I have heard in mentioned along with damage saturation as a source of many zero damage shells.

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3 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Thanks. As a follow-on, I have heard some suggest that dead mounts still provide "protection" for ships in that the dead mount takes the hit so the shell doesn't continue on to hit something else. Is this true and, if so, will it stop large AP rounds? I have heard in mentioned along with damage saturation as a source of many zero damage shells.

...I think that a destroyed mount can cause an HE shell to detonate, and if said HE shell is sufficiently small, the blast won't reach the hull.  But the same is true if the mount had been intact.

I know that AP rounds can cause zero-damage pens if they penetrate the torpedo bulge and then shatter against the actual belt armor.  It's possible that the same effect could happen against a secondary turret - overpen the secondary, then fail to pen the superstructure/hull behind it - but I would be surprised to hear that happening with battleship-caliber AP.  If you could demonstrate it in a Training Room, so that it's easily replicated, I'm sure the devs would be interested in the setup.

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A little bit late, but... bait out DFAA and then murder them.

Fly your DBs in, keeping careful track of the drop reticule. The moment it blooms, run away, count for 30s, then send in the torp bombers. If it never blooms, they probably aren't running DFAA and you can feel free to just go drop them with your DBs and then follow up with torps once their damcon is used.

 

This works on every ship except mino and worchester. Those two, just stay away from. You can strike them if you really want to, but you'll probably lose a squad or two and it really isn't worth it.

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