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Avrova1904

Are the Japanese Battleships still good ships?

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Hi,

I don't have much time to play World of Warships so I completed very few ship lines. I have the Japanese Battleship line except Tier IX Musashi. Despite I am now completing other lines, I mostly play japanese battleships when I have time. I mostly play: Nagato, Mutsu, Amagi, Fuso. But since a long break, I realized that most times I am the only japanese battleships in that tiers (VI, VII, VIII). I see more french, italian and british battleships rather than japanese battleships. I hardly ever see other Mutsu, I feel I am the only one playing this ship, but I really like Mutsu.

By the way, if somebody has advice on how to play Mutsu to Amagi with the latest aditions and against newer french, british and italian battleships, I would appreciate it. I will keep on playing with this historical treasures.

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I think that the Yammy is still good. The mutsu was never good in my hands...

I just think there are so many more options, but the USN cruiser split pulled a lot of behind island firers to the tree.

And I never hit the citadel on the tier 6/7 French BBs....

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Nowadays, when it comes to IJN BBs, I only play Yamato and Musashi.  I can't speak for other tiers, but these two never disappoint.

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When it comes to main battery performance, the IJN BB line is best in class. Ppl tend to see more german or french BBs because the IJN tree is THE oldest BB tree in the game. Most of us already finished the line, while newer players tend to find the other nations easier to play.

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Kongo: pretty decent but definitely a victim of power-creep

Fuso: average/good

Nagato: squishy but powerful, huge amount of HP and great guns

Amagi: great ship, fast, good guns, tough when angled properly, turtleback armor at close range

Izumo: even with recent buffs it’s still the worst tier 9 BB, musashi makes it completely irrelevant 

Yamato: amazing LOL pen, incredibly strong when used right

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Kawachi - Still terrible. Could use long-range secondaries matching her main gun range if fully spec'd. At least they'll hit more often than her main guns ever will.

Myogi - Better than she was about two months back. Was recently given minor buffs to make her a little more consistent accuracy and shell-wise.

Kongou - Still solid, but due for a minor balance pass. Mainly just reducing the reload to 28s, or buffing main gun accuracy.

Fuso - Still solid. Not much that can be done to her aside from some selective or fictional buffing.

Nagato - Still solid. Like Kongou, is due for a minor balance pass, giving her an even 30s main gun reload.

Amagi - Still solid. About the only buff she could use is to secondary range.

Izumo - Better than she was about two months back. Still somewhat flawed. Still need a considerable model overhaul. In the interim, could also use a longer secondary range.

Yamato - Better than she was about two months back. The traverse buff basically allows her to play more like other battleships. She could still stand to have her Super Heal back, or some maneuverability returned, or longer secondary range than Republique.


Mikasa - Still derpy. Could use long-range secondaries matching her main gun range if fully spec'd. At least she'd be a great post age of sail broadside barrage barge. But WG doesn't want to buff her. #StillSaltyBoutTsushima/s.

Ishizuchi - Is fine for the tier. Spam HE and profit.

Mutsu - No comment.

Ashitaka - Recently buffed to have the same shells as Nagato/Amagi. Great for Operations. Decent in Co-Op. Worthless in Random. Worthwhile if she has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

Kii - Worse than Amagi in everything but AA. Not worth it unless one already has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

Musashi - CV bait. It's only showing strong performance right now since high-tier CVs are rare. The only real joy is being able to use 460s against T7s (not that it does much better than 16" does against T7s), but otherwise pretty balanced.

Edited by YamatoA150
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6 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

Kawachi - Still terrible. Could use long-range secondaries matching her main gun range if fully spec'd. At least they'll hit more often than her main guns ever will.

Myogi - Better than she was about two months back. Was recently given minor buffs to make her a little more consistent accuracy and shell-wise.

Kongou - Still solid, but due for a minor balance pass. Mainly just reducing the reload to 30s even.

Fuso - Still solid. Not much that can be done to her aside from some selective or fictional buffing.

Nagato - Still solid. Like Kongou, is due for a minor balance pass, giving her an even 30s main gun reload.

Amagi - Still solid. About the only buff she could use is to secondary range.

Izumo - Better than she was about two months back. Still somewhat flawed. Still need a considerable model overhaul. In the interim, could also use a longer secondary range.

Yamato - Better than she was about two months back. The traverse buff basically allows her to play more like other battleships. She could still stand to have her Super Heal back, or some maneuverability returned, or longer secondary range than Republique.


Mikasa - Still derpy. Could use long-range secondaries matching her main gun range if fully spec'd. At least she'd be a great post age of sail broadside barrage barge. But WG doesn't want to buff her. #StillSaltyBoutTsushima/s.

Ishizuchi - Is fine for the tier. Spam HE and profit.

Mutsu - No comment.

Ashitaka - Recently buffed to have the same shells as Nagato/Amagi. Great for Operations. Decent in Co-Op. Worthless in Random. Worthwhile if she has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

Kii - Worse than Amagi in everything but AA. Not worth it unless one already has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

Musashi - CV bait. It's only showing strong performance right now since high-tier CVs are rare. The only real joy is being able to use 460s against T7s (not that it does much better than 16" does against T7s), but otherwise pretty balanced.

Kongo only has a 31 second reload on the A hull. On the B hull, it's 30 seconds.

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Japenese BB line enjoyment

I liked it more than the

-American line  (mainly for my distane for the Colorado, and the fact i still haven't gotten the montana to work for me.

-The British line even though they are way oped.

-French line (tons of 14 inch guns that go everywhere but where you fire them and shatter when they do)

 

I liked the German line about the same as JP.  Good diversity.  Some with strong guns, others with super armor.   Still more with good secondaries.   Did i mention torps?   Anyway Shame WG decided to kill this line with AP bombs.

Edited by WES_HoundDog

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8 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

Kawachi - Still terrible. Could use long-range secondaries matching her main gun range if fully spec'd. At least they'll hit more often than her main guns ever will.

Myogi - Better than she was about two months back. Was recently given minor buffs to make her a little more consistent accuracy and shell-wise.

Kongou - Still solid, but due for a minor balance pass. Mainly just reducing the reload to 30s even.

Fuso - Still solid. Not much that can be done to her aside from some selective or fictional buffing.

Nagato - Still solid. Like Kongou, is due for a minor balance pass, giving her an even 30s main gun reload.

Amagi - Still solid. About the only buff she could use is to secondary range.

Izumo - Better than she was about two months back. Still somewhat flawed. Still need a considerable model overhaul. In the interim, could also use a longer secondary range.

Yamato - Better than she was about two months back. The traverse buff basically allows her to play more like other battleships. She could still stand to have her Super Heal back, or some maneuverability returned, or longer secondary range than Republique.


Mikasa - Still derpy. Could use long-range secondaries matching her main gun range if fully spec'd. At least she'd be a great post age of sail broadside barrage barge. But WG doesn't want to buff her. #StillSaltyBoutTsushima/s.

Ishizuchi - Is fine for the tier. Spam HE and profit.

Mutsu - No comment.

Ashitaka - Recently buffed to have the same shells as Nagato/Amagi. Great for Operations. Decent in Co-Op. Worthless in Random. Worthwhile if she has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

Kii - Worse than Amagi in everything but AA. Not worth it unless one already has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

Musashi - CV bait. It's only showing strong performance right now since high-tier CVs are rare. The only real joy is being able to use 460s against T7s (not that it does much better than 16" does against T7s), but otherwise pretty balanced.

Solid review. +1

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Just now, WES_HoundDog said:

Japenese BB line enjoyment

I liked it more than the

-American line  (mainly for my distane for the Colorado, and the fact i still haven't gotten the montana to work for me.

-The British line even though they are way oped.

-French line (tons of 15 inch guns that go everywhere but where you fire them and shatter when they do)

 

I liked the German line about the same as JP.  Good diversity.  Some with strong guns, others with super armor.   Still more with good secondaries.   Did i mention torps?   Anyway Shame WG decided to kill this line with AP bombs.

I shall grind to Bismarck and then completely and utterly abandon the line. I have the perma-camos from Hunt The Bismarck, but not Bismarck herself, so I will grind to her, play a few battles in her fully set up for secondaries, and then keep her as a port queen, only taking her out if it is absolutely necessary.

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28 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

Kongo only has a 31 second reload on the A hull. On the B hull, it's 30 seconds.

Then I'll amend it to 28s. Thanks.

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42 minutes ago, Avrova1904 said:

Hi,

I don't have much time to play World of Warships so I completed very few ship lines. I have the Japanese Battleship line except Tier IX Musashi. Despite I am now completing other lines, I mostly play japanese battleships when I have time. I mostly play: Nagato, Mutsu, Amagi, Fuso. But since a long break, I realized that most times I am the only japanese battleships in that tiers (VI, VII, VIII). I see more french, italian and british battleships rather than japanese battleships. I hardly ever see other Mutsu, I feel I am the only one playing this ship, but I really like Mutsu.

By the way, if somebody has advice on how to play Mutsu to Amagi with the latest aditions and against newer french, british and italian battleships, I would appreciate it. I will keep on playing with this historical treasures.

Like others have said. The IJN BB line is one of the oldest lines in the game. Most long-time players have completed it and unless they love it, they've moved on to trying new lines. As for Mutsu, she isn't well liked. The ship is good at overmatching due to the 16" shells on T6 and she is faster than average for the tier, but her accuracy is rather poor, her shells shatter a lot on thick armor, her AA is abysmal, and her durability is also rather poor. It is a very specialized ship that requires a player who knows how to use it well and really likes the playstyle. It plays more like Kongo with much bigger guns than like Nagato. 

I'm not sure what advice you need for playing the IJN BBs against the newer BB lines. They aren't that different form the old lines overall. BBs have some of the least variance between them unless you are attacking them with aircraft. The short rundown is: 

The Germans have thick lower belts and really can't be citadeled at close range. Aim for their upper belts nearer to where the side armor meets the deck. You can pen them all day long through there for full damage. Their gunpower is usually lower than equivalent BBs on the same tier and their accuracy is typically worse. Most of them have good secondaries as well and some of them (Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, and Tirpitz) have short-ranged torpedoes that you have to watch out for. They tend to operate closer in where their armor scheme offers them better protection and where their long-ranged secondaries can stack damage. You'll see a lot of them using full or mostly-full secondary builds. 

The French are a mixed bag depending on the tier and they tend to be very different from one another. Bretagne (T5) and lower are not terribly different from anything else although they tend to be faster than normal after T5. Normandie (T6) and Lyon (T7) have more guns of lower caliber. They don't penetrate armor well but they can smother you with hits. All the T7 BBs and lower are more fragile than average although not hugely so. Richelieu (T8) has all its guns in the bow and will bow tank making it very durable. It and all the higher French BBs have a speed boost so they can be very quick. Alsace (T9) reverts to the Lyon model with a ton of guns of lower caliber. She is very tanky. Republique has few guns of large caliber and plays like an oversized and very fast Graf Spee. Some of them have good secondaries that you may have to be aware of although they aren't as impressive or as often specced-into as the Germans. 

The British BBs above T6, tend to be HE spammers. That doesn't mean their AP is bad (although it is very lackluster on some ships) but their HE is so good and it doesn't care about angling so British BBs tend to spam HE almost exclusively. They mostly have weaker armor and have less health (but not all of them) but have significantly-better-than-average ability to heal as compensation. 

There are only two Italian BBs and both are premiums. They have unusual traits to them (mainly speed) but you can treat them mostly the same as other BBs. 

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IJN BBs have held up very well despite some power creep, it's still one of my favorite lines.

Fuso, Amagi, and Yamato are all still excellent and Kongo and Nagato remain solid performers.

Have not played the buffed Izumo(it used to be garbage) but one crappy ship should not prevent you from enjoying the line.

...

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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Yes.  They are good ships. 

Thing is, the good captains have moved on to grind the newer ship lines. 

To them, they know everything about these ships, and just where to hurt them.

But the good thing is that there are a lot of videos out there explaining them. 

Avoid the 11 kill brag vids that don't help you at all.

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IJN BBs are still one of the most solid and consistent lines out there.  Definately not the new hotness; but solid.

 What's nice is the lessons you learn at T4 apply to almost all the IJN BBs and CAs.  Hence, minimal Captain respecs needed.

 

Edited by Warped_1

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1 hour ago, YamatoA150 said:

Musashi - CV bait. It's only showing strong performance right now since high-tier CVs are rare. The only real joy is being able to use 460s against T7s (not that it does much better than 16" does against T7s), but otherwise pretty balanced.

This analysis is very wrong.  If you think Yamato has AA strong enough to deter dedicated strike package from T10 CV, think again.  Yamato will not fare any better than Musashi vs determined CV.  And if you think AA build Yamato (LOL) can do better, think again.  Mid game, after loads of HE is dumped on Yamato, AA build or not your AA will cease to exist.  So, for all intents and purposes Musashi does about the same vs CVs when compared to Yamato.  "The only real joy" part is also wrong, Musashi guns show better performance vs T9 and T10 hard armored targets when compared to other T9 BBs, and most often than not you will face just that on the opposing team - T9 BB with guns that are not as good.  Thus improving your team chances for success.

<EDIT> Source: I have 422 battles in Yamato and 267 battles in Musashi in randoms.

Edited by Ramsalot

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IJN BBS are still solid and good however they do need some tweaking to resolve some early balance issues that due to power creep have become far more impacting.

Those issues are the citadels above water and the secondaries. These two feed back into each other in a negative loop.

Aka, to use secondaries you have to present broadside... and your citadels are far too easy to hit. So a secondary build becomes less viable as other ships get power creeped.

There are two solutions for this.

1- fix the citadels. Other ships have had their citadels lowered. IJN need this too. They weren't this high 'IRL' to begin with.

2- Increase secondary gun range and firing arcs PLUS fix the secondary fire arcs of some BBs.

Yamato for example, has 3 secondary guns 127mm's that can fire forward/aft from ~10 degrees from nose towards the side. However in the game, when a ship is just off to a side from your nose, these guns don't fire. Only the 155mm fires. The three 127mm's only fire when that ship is at ~35 degrees off the bow (aka you're presenting your nose citadel).

Nagato has several secondaries that don't fire unless the target is directly 90 degrees to the side of the ship... a long known glitch that still hasn't been fixed.

 

Finally, on topic, Yamato is only viable / solid if you have the new tier 10 upgrade. When Musashi was released the Yamato guns got the same horizontal dispersion increase they gave the Musashi guns. Only with the upgrade do you get the tight dispersion patterns the Yamato used to have back. It's like night and day.

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2 hours ago, YamatoA150 said:

Kii - Worse than Amagi in everything but AA. Not worth it unless one already has the Kobayashi Camouflage.

I actually really like the Kii. I'm not an IJN BB main by any stretch, but she works well enough for me. I even managed to give a Kiev the surprise of his life when I dodged most of his pointblank torpedo spread and then torpedoed him in return! 

But yeah, accuracy isn't great, armor is so-so. Shes still pretty quick and she still has enough reach to scare some folks, and even landing the odd hit here and there for decent damage. She is her own beast and makes good credits with the Kobayashi camo but I've found Kii overall pretty fun. 

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Just finished Amagi's 19pt grind with a full secondary build. A previous post said it best " increase secondary range" so true! Her armor is good guns are great and she's manuverable and if played sensibly can brawl well. I'm not wasting time on Izumo so many better choices at T9... Played Yamato on PT a few times before the buff initial opinion: Brutally powerful but handles like an over weight semi truck is easily citadeled and as a bonus your everyone's focus target no wonder they hide and snipe.. I'll reserve judgement until I have her and play her a lot more...

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4 minutes ago, Sledgehammer427 said:

I actually really like the Kii. I'm not an IJN BB main by any stretch, but she works well enough for me. I even managed to give a Kiev the surprise of his life when I dodged most of his pointblank torpedo spread and then torpedoed him in return! 

But yeah, accuracy isn't great, armor is so-so. Shes still pretty quick and she still has enough reach to scare some folks, and even landing the odd hit here and there for decent damage. She is her own beast and makes good credits with the Kobayashi camo but I've found Kii overall pretty fun. 

I'm not going to disagree. I can make her work with reasonable competence, but she's just so frustrating. She's given the tools to be a decent harasser (not quite a brawler), but she doesn't have the armor to actually take advantage of it, leaving her in some sort of hell where she needs to play the ranged game until late-game, but can't do so due to poor accuracy AND 32s reloads. At least Amagi can force her way in and lead a controlled and aggressive push without too much fear of retribution, thanks to her armor and accuracy. Plenty of times I've been called a hacker or Amagi considered OP because she was able to tank torpedoes and shells and still come out intact. Kii can't even do that.

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The IJN us still pretty good overall. The only bad spots are the Kawachi and Mygomi. I haven't played the Izumo sense the update to her.

 

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5 hours ago, bubbleboy264 said:

Kongo: pretty decent but definitely a victim of power-creep

Fuso: average/good

Nagato: squishy but powerful, huge amount of HP and great guns

Amagi: great ship, fast, good guns, tough when angled properly, turtleback armor at close range

Izumo: even with recent buffs it’s still the worst tier 9 BB, musashi makes it completely irrelevant 

Yamato: amazing LOL pen, incredibly strong when used right

Tbe only thing tbat power creeped Kongo is GC. Even the ARP versions are op in the right hands.

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13 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

Tbe only thing tbat power creeped Kongo is GC. Even the ARP versions are op in the right hands.

I agree, Kongo's in a great spot really for her age.

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