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jags_domain

Smoke to powerful or flat our broken????

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44 minutes ago, Thornir said:

You are misunderstanding, and the word is "sense".

I am saying, fix radar, or leave DDs their stealth mechanics. And making the DD visible defeats its purpose. Make it hard for the DD to see, not visible, and I am ok with that, so long as radar becomes LoS and only for the ship using it. 

How many games do you have in upper tier DDs? I can't tell.

So your ok with beefing radar but your fine with dd foreign from smoke when and not be spotted?

Abmnd you so der why peoole are uoset with smoke?

And I wonxer how many games you have played at all. Every game has a dd sitting in smoke shooting at everything and not be seen

If your ok with radar nerf then there has to be a smoke nerf

52 minutes ago, Granitebeard said:

Sounds like you need to better understand the game mechanics... Your stats appear to be hidden, so I can't begin to understand you experience with the game (I am not a stat shamer, just use them to understand where a player comes from)

To an extent, I agree you should be able to see where the AA shots come from, but saying the whole ships should be seen is not acceptable for the class. LOS  (Line of sight) is one of those things that makes the game what it is. As a BB, you will wreck a DD with your rounds. The DD, who's torps reload slower than your guns, needs some kind of protection, that can be counter by tons of things in the game now, to try and hopefully get one or two torps on you. The hammer will crush all if played right, the dagger takes more fines.

I am have looked at me stats because I dont care. My argument is with the argument.

I am tired of people talking about nerfing radar while at the same time demanding smoke.

Most ships dont have torps. And infill t8 there is no radar save 2 ships. Dd sit in smoke and gun down everything and there is nothing a player can do about it. Moreover radar only last 40 sec and 25 on Russian while the smoke is 2 min. Indi can only get 2 salvos off before radar is down.

T1 through t7 smoke is broken and I mean very broken. T8 9 amd 10 at least there is a chance to do somthing about it.

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

Smoke used to be a LOT worse. BBs being completely hidden in smoke while firing. The firing in smoke being shorter than the regular firing bloom is a fine balance. Smoke is ok now.

The bb smoke firing was insane. But t1 to t7 is still broken smoke. There is nothing a ship can do against another ship in smoke. Nothing. No counters nothing 

Yes you can fire but the odds of hitting are very little.

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1 hour ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

If you see smoke either avoid it or shoot into it. It does not cover the whole map and your team mates radar should detect the DD.

Oh yea this is a game not a simulator. Also it appears that there are many more who stay than leave and those that do leave appear to be those who insist on Make This Do This This Way Just For Me folks!

Everyone says its a game not aim then why all the complaint about radar?

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1 hour ago, silverdahc said:

:cap_popcorn:

 Well I don't even know where to start so  I will just watch for now

Where do you go to get the gif?

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9 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

The bb smoke firing was insane. But t1 to t7 is still broken smoke. There is nothing a ship can do against another ship in smoke. Nothing. No counters nothing 

Yes you can fire but the odds of hitting are very little.

Keep practicing firing into smoke. I couldn't hit water when firing into smoke at first, but then it clicked. Make sure to have the last location marker set to on in your minimap settings and practice with the little circle on the minimap.

 

Or just charge the smoke. I do that a lot. You have to pay attention to make sure you can avoid torps, but you will usually drive out the smoke hider. You have access to hydro at T4+ and that really helps with charging smoke.  For example at T4, the Kuma, Phoenix, Svietlana, Karlsruhe, Danae, and Duguay-Trouin all have hydro. Most cruisers T5+ have it as an option. German DDs get Hydro at T6. German BBs get hydro at T8 and Loyang, Cossack and Haida get hydro.

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8 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Where do you go to get the gif?

 At the top of your page there's a little :)  You can find them underneath that

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2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Keep practicing firing into smoke. I couldn't hit water when firing into smoke at first, but then it clicked. Make sure to have the last location marker set to on in your minimap settings and practice with the little circle on the minimap.

 

Or just charge the smoke. I do that a lot. You have to pay attention to make sure you can avoid torps, but you will usually drive out the smoke hider. You have access to hydro at T4+ and that really helps with charging smoke.  For example at T4, the Kuma, Phoenix, Svietlana, Karlsruhe, Danae, and Duguay-Trouin all have hydro. Most cruisers T5+ have it as an option. German DDs get Hydro at T6. German BBs get hydro at T8 and Loyang, Cossack and Haida get hydro.

Great ideas. Thanks

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Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean you can’t kill it.

 

 

It’s smoke, not an island. You can shoot into it and kill things regardless of whether or not you can see it.

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

So your ok with beefing radar but your fine with dd foreign from smoke when and not be spotted?

Abmnd you so der why peoole are uoset with smoke?

And I wonxer how many games you have played at all. Every game has a dd sitting in smoke shooting at everything and not be seen

If your ok with radar nerf then there has to be a smoke nerf

You are not at all understanding what I am saying...

And I have 1800 DD games. My stats are not hidden.

Edited by Thornir

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46 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean you can’t kill it.

 

 

It’s smoke, not an island. You can shoot into it and kill things regardless of whether or not you can see it.

You can get a lucky shot but that is not most people.

 

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It sounds like, as others have suggested, you just need to practice how to handle things in smoke better.

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38 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

You can get a lucky shot but that is not most people.

 

 

The unique ability that allows me to make these "lucky shots" is that I don't believe that such shots are impossible, and have not assumed them to be impossible for at least two years.

The first time I killed something in smoke, it was pure luck based only my absolute assumption that if I throw something at it, it would stick.

Any tactic that gives even a 0.1% higher chance for victory over leaning over and taking a torpedo in the stern, or losing a cap, should be used to the highest potential.

Then came the RNCL Smoke Radar Meta of Ranked Wars, Early 2017.

And eventually T8 Ranked Wars with Radar Meta

And finally T10 camp behind an island meta.

None of these shots are very hard to make. You take information you get from your eyes, do ten seconds of predictions, and fire. It doesn't take much processing power to shoot a visible target, I am pretty sure 99% to 100% of players can do that. Applying it to no vision is only a single step up.

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@jags_domain In case you haven't notice there are plenty here complaining about almost anything! Some are so OCD they zoom in so much to find pixels that are out of place.

 

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1 hour ago, Granitebeard said:

It sounds like, as others have suggested, you just need to practice how to handle things in smoke better.

Yes that is right but how come all I hear is complaning about radar.

And what about a mino sitting in a smoke at 14 km and nothing can be done?

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14 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Yes that is right but how come all I hear is complaning about radar.

And what about a mino sitting in a smoke at 14 km and nothing can be done?

It’s extrnely easy to spot where the Mino is in its smoke since it’ll be constantly firing. Just look at last known location to judge/tell the distance, then aim directly in the center of where the shells are coming from. That’ll end up being the center of the ship. Fire and watch as the Mino gets deleted. It’s extremely easy to nuke a Mino in its smoke.

Edited by renegadestatuz

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

Yes that is right but how come all I hear is complaning about radar.

And what about a mino sitting in a smoke at 14 km and nothing can be done?

 

You described this exact gfycat I posted from earlier. 18km smoked Minotaur. No radar, no meatball, no surface contact. "Nothing can be done."

tv2ZTTo.png

 

Have a vision. It is the ability to see the invisible. If you can see the invisible, you can achieve the impossible.

-Shiv Khera

 

Edited by Compassghost

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Smoke, and stealth in general, is broken because when you don't have radar it's basically a Klingon cloaking device that makes you immune to intentional damage while you can pour out targeted fire... But when there is radar it's completely pointless.

 

Smoke and stealth are broken becuase they're all or nothing mechanics that either work too good or don't work at all.

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6 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

Smoke, and stealth in general, is broken because when you don't have radar it's basically a Klingon cloaking device that makes you immune to intentional damage while you can pour out targeted fire... But when there is radar it's completely pointless.

 

Smoke and stealth are broken becuase they're all or nothing mechanics that either work too good or don't work at all.

Perfict point!!!!!

A mino 7 km away smokes up and there is nothing you can do

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2 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Perfict point!!!!!

A mino 7 km away smokes up and there is nothing you can do

Unless you have radar, in which case that Mino dies in seconds.

 

Any all or nothing mechanic is broken because one player or the other will get all the advantages while the other has none.  Stealth when undetected gives the detected player every advantage, but when detected gives the other player every advantage.

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18 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

 

You described this exact gfycat I posted from earlier. 18km smoked Minotaur. No radar, no meatball, no surface contact. "Nothing can be done."

tv2ZTTo.png

 

Have a vision. It is the ability to see the invisible. If you can see the invisible, you can achieve the impossible.

-Shiv Khera

 

Most of us cant do that

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Also I think, the mino can bee seen while firing at 7km. All ships, even DDs, have detect-ability ranges while firing in smoke. Not firing is 2km (2.5km with a mod), DDs only have like a .5km addition to this, Cl are 3km or so, CA more, and BB the most. THis was done because of smoke camping.

Shooting at ships in smoke takes practice, I have 8k games since the last wipe, and I am not the best at it, but a stopped ship in smoke is a quick kill for even those just learning the trade.

 

People cry about radar due to multiple factors:

1) 100% guarantied spotting for the radar user's team regardless of land mass or actual sight.

2) WHile at higher tiers 10-12km torps are normal, by that tier most people learn how to avoid the smoke or dodge torps well. So not having some form of cover while trying to break LOS is gone.

3) Dependent on the range I mentioned above, radar can make smoke just like it used to be but in reverse. Nothing like feeling safe in your own cover then not being able to see the 5 ships shooting at you.

 

DD are the highest skill ceiling class in the come ship classes. CVs are really the highest, but not as many people play them, and of those who do only a few can learn to use them truely well (*tiers to hide my "failed to tier 8" CV stats....). I realize that not everyone plays every class, but one of the oldest things from alpha is "if you feel a ship/class is OP, play it and see if you feel the same way".

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14 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Most of us cant do that

Why? What is the technical, physical, or mental limitation?

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22 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Most of us cant do that

Most of us can. You just might not be willing to learn. With the new minimap indicator of your aim it's never been easier

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