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Colonel_Lonewolf

Flag Etiquette

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World of Warships (WG),

Please be aware that the US Flag Code requires the US Flag to be flown in a higher position than any other flag flown along with her.  On many of your ships this is not the case.  The US Flag flies lower in position than the other flags we can select to fly along side her.  If this could be corrected it would be greatly appreciated.  You folks are doing a great job in an ever demanding game.  Thank you for your time and efforts.

 

Colonel Lonewolf

(PS)  All German National flags of the time were flown from the aft of the ship and not a middle mast.  Not sure if you are not allowed to display the flags correctly on the ships but thought I might mention it. 

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  1. When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

https://www.military.com/flag-day/us-flag-code.html

Edited by RevTKS
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56 minutes ago, Colonel_Lonewolf said:

World of Warships (WG),

Please be aware that the US Flag Code requires the US Flag to be flown in a higher position than any other flag flown along with her.  On many of your ships this is not the case.  The US Flag flies lower in position than the other flags we can select to fly along side her.  If this could be corrected it would be greatly appreciated.  

This does not apply to naval ships which carry there own traditions and regulations.

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While I understand your enthusiasm for detail, there are way more pressing concerns for WG to correct or implement into the game. In other words: priorities. This is of low priority in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Colonel_Lonewolf said:

World of Warships (WG),

Please be aware that the US Flag Code requires the US Flag to be flown in a higher position than any other flag flown along with her.  On many of your ships this is not the case.  The US Flag flies lower in position than the other flags we can select to fly along side her.  If this could be corrected it would be greatly appreciated.  You folks are doing a great job in an ever demanding game.  Thank you for your time and efforts.

 

Colonel Lonewolf

A fair point.  I have stopped flying any secondary flags.  The Stars and Stripes flies proud, alone, and dips to nothing.

 

 

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The US Flag Code is hardly recognized in reality. In fact, its enforcement has been ruled unconstitutional as it violates free speech. The only "code" therefore is organizational tradition, and even this can change.

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. -- Technically, "Uncle Sam" violates this section of the code, as do most athletic organizations.

The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. -- This section has been violated by nearly every "patriotic" advertisement ever made.

Shall not be printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discarded. -- Many decorative American Flags themselves fall into this category as do the "patriotic" napkins and table decorations one sees on July 4th and at political rallies. Welcome to the modern disposable world Flag Code. I'd say flag stickers also would fall here.

Half-staff has been so overused as to be rendered meaningless now. I've seen flags flown half-staff at governmental rallies merely because it was easier for the event organizers to get the flags in frame when they filmed. 

 I do like the new section that "allows" veterans to salute the flag, even when not in uniform. Of course free speech allows one to do this anyway.

Speaking of constitutional rights, I really wish I'd understood them better when I was in the military. The US military constantly violates the Constitutional rights of its servicemen and women, who are the very people tasked to protect those rights. Some things have changed since I was in but it's far from being as it should be. You shouldn't have to give up your Constitutional rights in order to serve in the military.

 

 

 

Edited by Snargfargle
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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

The US Flag Code is hardly recognized in reality. In fact, its enforcement has been rules unconstitutional as it violates free speech. The only "code" therefore is organizational tradition, and even this can change.

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. -- Technically, "Uncle Sam" violates this section of the code, as do most athletic organizations.

The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. -- This section has been violated by nearly every "patriotic" advertisement ever made.

Shall not be printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discarded. -- Many decorative American Flags themselves fall into this category. Welcome to the modern disposable world Flag Code.

Half-staff has been so overused as to be rendered meaningless now. I've seen flags flown half-staff at governmental rallies merely because it was easier for the event organizers to get the flags in frame when they filmed.

And that's not even counting the enthusiasm with which some people would insist that a flag be burned once they learn that it must never "touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise" for so much as lightly dipping a corner in some dust on accident. Then again these were mostly kids, so the "burning" part was more what they were interested in than anything flag-related.

If Boy Scout color-guard duty taught me anything, it's that some people are WAY too uptight about flags.

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Just now, Landsraad said:

If Boy Scout color-guard duty taught me anything, it's that some people are WAY too uptight about flags.

I served in a funeral honor guard when I was a soldier. I was scared to death that I would fold the damn flag wrong or otherwise do something to "dishonor" the situation.

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3 hours ago, Colonel_Lonewolf said:

Please be aware that the US Flag Code requires the US Flag to be flown in a higher position than any other flag flown along with her.

I have served my country in both military and civilian service for over 30 years, with some of those years (both military and civilian) with the United States Navy. They have their own proud traditions that conform to international maritime laws.

Before you post comments like this, you might want to do a little research.

You dishonor our service by pointing out our alleged complicity.  Was that your intention?

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@Sub_Octavian et all other developers perhaps the national flags should be removed altogether and be replaced with a WG/WoWs specific flag. That way all flag position related upset post would be eliminated other than those about and/or demanding their inclusion.

Or just forget all such silly nit picking suggestions altogether ie the unneeded cry for CV rework that continues to fuel such vitriol here!

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Speaking of constitutional rights, I really wish I'd understood them better when I was in the military. The US military constantly violates the Constitutional rights of its servicemen and women, who are the very people tasked to protect those rights. Some things have changed since I was in but it's far from being as it should be. You shouldn't have to give up your Constitutional rights in order to serve in the military.

 

 

When you join the military, you give up a bunch of your rights, and they are replace by the UCMJ. Prime example, is you give up your right for a search warrant while living in government housing.

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The US Flag Code is hardly recognized in reality. In fact, its enforcement has been ruled unconstitutional as it violates free speech. The only "code" therefore is organizational tradition, and even this can change.

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. -- Technically, "Uncle Sam" violates this section of the code, as do most athletic organizations.

The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. -- This section has been violated by nearly every "patriotic" advertisement ever made.

Shall not be printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discarded. -- Many decorative American Flags themselves fall into this category as do the "patriotic" napkins and table decorations one sees on July 4th and at political rallies. Welcome to the modern disposable world Flag Code. I'd say flag stickers also would fall here.

Half-staff has been so overused as to be rendered meaningless now. I've seen flags flown half-staff at governmental rallies merely because it was easier for the event organizers to get the flags in frame when they filmed. 

 I do like the new section that "allows" veterans to salute the flag, even when not in uniform. Of course free speech allows one to do this anyway.

Speaking of constitutional rights, I really wish I'd understood them better when I was in the military. The US military constantly violates the Constitutional rights of its servicemen and women, who are the very people tasked to protect those rights. Some things have changed since I was in but it's far from being as it should be. You shouldn't have to give up your Constitutional rights in order to serve in the military.

And do not forget all of the flags that are unlit, flown at night, and in the rain unlit. 

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6 hours ago, RevTKS said:
  1. When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

https://www.military.com/flag-day/us-flag-code.html

There had better not be a flag of another nation flying on a US warship!

Edited by DESRON10

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23 minutes ago, DESRON10 said:

There had better not be a flag of another nation flying on a US warship!

The flag's a symbol. Take a deep breath.

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5 minutes ago, Thornir said:

The flag's a symbol. Take a deep breath.

I did and I got a lung full of Freedom!

image.png.6b0a4743664e616720e2db00ae1a374f.png

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Just now, DESRON10 said:

I did and I got a lung full of Freedom!

image.png.6b0a4743664e616720e2db00ae1a374f.png

Oh dear. An armchair patriot.

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I spent 23 years in the USN, transferred to Fleet Reserve, and took a job with a defense contractor doing much the same job for three times more money. When I was stationed on the USS Badger, FF-1071 (the original Battle Frigate, thanks to Battleship Bob) I had to spend a few weeks in "Waits" working for the Naval Station's First Lieutenant while waiting for my ship to return from sea. Being a First Class at the time, I was given a choice between supervising roadside litter collection in Pearl City, which would have been simple, boring, and afforded opportunity to liquid lunch at the Monkey Bar; or I could be the OIC of an honor detail raising flags over The Arizona Memorial which would be used for various ceremonies, not least of which was presentation to family members of deceased WWII veterans at their funerals. This was about 50 years after the war and a lot of the Vets were in their 70's and 80's and passing away in those years. I wasn't sure I wanted the Honor Detail, mostly because it sounded even more boring than watching a bunch of E-4 and belows picking up trash, but also because our duties would be carried out in full view of the thousands of visitors USS Arizona gets every day. I didn't want to screw up because it's a sacred place. Some people might not think so, but the Memorial changes you. Young or old, male or female, regardless of politics, religion, military service or not, - even nationality, and there are not a few foreigners, especially Japanese who visit  - it's a profound experience. I would have to be conscious of that every second, and make certain everyone else on my detail felt the same weight of responsibility.

Anyway, long story short - I took the Honor Guard duty and those ten days were some of the best in my career, if not my life. I'm very proud to have had that opportunity and to have done it well with a fine group of young men and women. So don't worry about the national flags and how they're represented in this game. One of the things I like about World of Warships is that there seems to be a genuine respect for the ships and the countries that sailed them (or at least drew them up) and I think that's as much as we need here. The real world can (and does) take care of itself.

Edited by _Starbuck
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5 minutes ago, Thornir said:

Oh dear. An armchair patriot.

LOL , I guess so. All of those ribbons I received mean nothing now.

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19 minutes ago, DESRON10 said:

LOL , I guess so. All of those ribbons I received mean nothing now.

Correct......but once out of the military, they don't have much meaning to other people.

Just to let you know, I'm retired USAF and also have medals and ribbons.....

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35 minutes ago, DESRON10 said:

LOL , I guess so. All of those ribbons I received mean nothing now.

They're also symbols. I have five rows. Some combat decorations, one for Valor. Flag is still a symbol.

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8 hours ago, RevTKS said:
  1. When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

https://www.military.com/flag-day/us-flag-code.html

These other flags in WOW are not national flags.

7 hours ago, _Rumple_ said:

While I understand your enthusiasm for detail, there are way more pressing concerns for WG to correct or implement into the game. In other words: priorities. This is of low priority in my opinion.

Wrong.  Take pride in your country and your flag.  Before you know it it could all slip away with notions like that.

5 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Speaking of constitutional rights, I really wish I'd understood them better when I was in the military. The US military constantly violates the Constitutional rights of its servicemen and women, who are the very people tasked to protect those rights. Some things have changed since I was in but it's far from being as it should be. You shouldn't have to give up your Constitutional rights in order to serve in the military.

As a military member, you sacrifice a few or your rights in order to maintain discipline in times when most beliefs go right out the window.  We acknowledge this and do so for the betterment of our military and our country.

 

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@Markk9 20 years DOD Firefighter for USAF here even we Civilians pretty much leave our rights as soon as we are flagged through the gate until we are flagged through on exit!

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1 minute ago, Colonel_Lonewolf said:

Wrong.  Take pride in your country and your flag.  Before you know it it could all slip away with notions like that.

There's a line between patriotism and nationalism. 

"Pride in country and symbols" will not save us from the path we are on. It is WHY we are on the path we are on.

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