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LancasterOne

Are AP bombs too powerful against battleships?

Are AP bombs too powerful against battleships?  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. Is AP bomb too powerful against battleships?

    • Yes
      39
    • No
      44
    • others
      10
    • I like AP bombs cos it helps me stat pad my avg dmg
      4

49 comments in this topic

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AP DB only seem OP if you make yourself an effective target. Get gud at anti-CV tactics.

1 hour ago, Judadiao said:

BBs suffer from AP bombs? Maybe you play German BBs only... I think high tier CAs suffers a great more than BBs. AP bombers can only deal some reasonable dmg to BBs (except German BBs though). However, it can one-shot many cruisers. A skilled Midway player has no issue bail out a full HP DM's DFAA and then perma fk him and send him back port. Among all Tier X cruisers, I think only the Hindy and Mino will not receive citadels from AP bomber. DM, Worchester and Moskva are almost guaranteed citadel. Most tier 9 cruisers also eat citadals from AP bombers. US CAs suffers most because they often play quite stationary behind mountain, which makes the cv easier to drop them.

I tested the Essex's AP DB against stationary bots. Hindy's turtleback armor is actually fairly vulnerable.

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11 hours ago, LancasterOne said:

As a CV captain myself I sometimes find myself feeling absolutely filthy dropping AP bombs on battleships and dealing 15000, 20000 dmg per drop. That's basically half the avg dmg dealt by players in most games which is in the 40k range. I've mained battleships, I've mained CVs. I can't help but feel AP bombs do feel cheap. 

What is the forum's consensus?

Nope.

BBs basically get a free pass in the balance model as it is.  No counter. No top-down economic drawbacks. No MM drawbacks. Nothing. Night and day Risk vs Reward, little to zero risk still generates high reward.

CVs are high skill floor and they should "feel" overpowered to their victims when the CV is played by a skilled player. That is what happens when you have a game with archetypes that have different skill floor+ceilings (when it is balanced). Now with that said, a high skill floor archetype can also be overpowered. However, if CVs were overpowered the population trends would show different, and the performance trends of say... BBs would also show different.

Edited by zarth12
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6 hours ago, Palladia said:

And if you get citadel by AP bombs then you did something wrong as well.  It isn't hard to maneuver out of the way of incoming bombers,  man.  The only way you should ever take citadels off of bombers is if you're going in straight lines or sitting still.  No excuse not to turn your ship and throw off the bombing circle. 

Except that does nothing to a GZ because the drop pattern is a circle. No maneuver is going to save you from those, just rng. 

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The USN ones? I've hardly seen them used, to be honest. USN AP bombers can be just as prone to the RNG drop patterns that HE bombs deal with, plus the risk of bounces + penetration. I think most people just opt for the greater consistency + DoT stack of the HE bombs. The thing that worries me about AP bombs is their alleged efficacy against cruisers.

The Graf Zeppelin ones? I think they deserve every bit of hatred that comes for them. It is, by far, the closest thing to true, effective "click-and-forget" that we have in-game.

Edited by Rion12
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6 hours ago, Palladia said:

And if you get citadel by AP bombs then you did something wrong as well.  It isn't hard to maneuver out of the way of incoming bombers,  man.  The only way you should ever take citadels off of bombers is if you're going in straight lines or sitting still.  No excuse not to turn your ship and throw off the bombing circle. 

That's just not true.  

Have you actually seen the bombing circle of AP bombs?  They can come at any angle and land a vast majority of the bombs on virtually any target.  The bombing reticle is literally a circle.  There is no throwing it off. I don't think they're particularly OP, but at least be factual when you're making assertions.   

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3 hours ago, Reymu said:

AP DB only seem OP if you make yourself an effective target. Get gud at anti-CV tactics.

I tested the Essex's AP DB against stationary bots. Hindy's turtleback armor is actually fairly vulnerable.

I never tested Essex but Midway's AP bomber seems unable to citadel Hindy. Maybe more tests are needed.

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2 hours ago, XpliCT_PaiiN said:

That's just not true.  

Have you actually seen the bombing circle of AP bombs?  They can come at any angle and land a vast majority of the bombs on virtually any target.  The bombing reticle is literally a circle.  There is no throwing it off. I don't think they're particularly OP, but at least be factual when you're making assertions.   

This is only true for GZ. The American one is a long elipse. You need to get your planes pretty close to perfectly aligned to land most.

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I would say that right up there with the amount of radar in the game now, AP bombs are currently too strong even for me, and I suck at CVs... CVs need help for the average player, but AP bombs went a tad too far. I will try not to say the same thing a different way again now...

I feel they should either do slightly less damage or slightly larger drop circle. If there were more team work int he game currently, I would say they were fine.

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14 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

It's not infrequent for BB AP citadel hits on Cruisers to do the same thing. So if BBs are getting as severely hammered by AP bombs as they do to Cruisers with their AP,  I'm far from sympathetic.

War's hell!

^This is my opinion as well. When BBs can't sink a cruiser with AP citadel hits I'll advocate for them to get protection against citadel hits from AP bombs. Funny thing is it isn't even every BB that is vulnerable to them. It is mainly older BBs with the pre-WWI turtleback armor scheme and the Germans who kept using it long after everyone else realized the vulnerability. 

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16 hours ago, LancasterOne said:

As a CV captain myself I sometimes find myself feeling absolutely filthy dropping AP bombs on battleships and dealing 15000, 20000 dmg per drop. That's basically half the avg dmg dealt by players in most games which is in the 40k range. I've mained battleships, I've mained CVs. I can't help but feel AP bombs do feel cheap. 

What is the forum's consensus?

That bb one shoots others nothing to be dirty about.

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They aren't effective enough. No t9/t10 BB is afraid of AP bombs. They may take 20k at most with 14 of 14 bomb hits, but really, 2 HE squadrons could hit for 5-20k and start 2-3 fires, doing more damage and knocking out AA mounts for the TBs.

 

AP bombs are too effective on cruisers, while not effective enough on BBs. They should be doing 70-80k unironically on a t10 BB on a perfect bombing run, otherwise they aren't worth it and you can get more mileage with HE bombers when hitting BBs. Personally I run AP bombs to bully cruisers while using TBs for BBs. I also run in nothing but t10 fishing divisions with CVs, so my opinion is biased, but I feel that I have a good grasp on this.

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On 8/17/2018 at 10:34 PM, AVR_Project said:

I citadeled a cruiser with a Langley HE bomb tonight.

But, Yeah..  Lexington has become a real contender with the addition of AP bombs and that real small manual drop circle.  Air Supremacy adds a bomber to the squad. 

Two bomber attacks can pretty much wipe out a German battleship.

Feels like dropping 'Tallboy's on a Tirpitz.

Lol that is why I equip German ships with at least moderate AA to attempt to bring down such bombers before they can reach me. :Smile_ohmy:

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Maybe it really is a threat for GZ, but Lex's 1000lb AP keep on overpennning everything not named Bismarck or Tirpitz...

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It's fine if a BB blaps a Cruiser for massive damage in a single go, but if anything does big damage instantly to a BB, IT'S MADNESS!  Totally broken!  WG do sumfink!

 

The only BBs that really suffer from AP bombs are Ze Germans.  But you can chalk that up for them designing their BBs to refight WWI instead of acknowledging advances in weapons after WWI.  You reap what you sow.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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On 8/17/2018 at 8:35 PM, ReddNekk said:

It's not infrequent for BB AP citadel hits on Cruisers to do the same thing. So if BBs are getting as severely hammered by AP bombs as they do to Cruisers with their AP,  I'm far from sympathetic.

War's hell!

This^

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On 8/17/2018 at 11:38 PM, RipNuN2 said:

Not just battleships, you should see what the Midway does to the Des Memes hahaha :cat_bubble:

Should've stayed closer to an AA cruiser.

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9 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

Should've stayed closer to an AA cruiser.

Can anyone say "irony?":cap_hmm:

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They should have just made USN HE bombs more accurate instead of including this nonsense.

AP bombs were meant to counter battleships, but they only counter some.

AP bombs weren't meant to counter cruisers, but they counter some.

AP bombs can citadel carriers. This would be fine, except that GZ can one-shot Lexington through her DF and that is not okay.

Edited by Flashtirade
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On 8/18/2018 at 4:15 AM, LancasterOne said:

 Us in the sky can adjust the drop to predict your location faster than you can complete a move. 

Completely ignoring the point of no return that dive bombers have in an attempt to make them seem worse than they are,  I see.  There's a full second or two before the bombs actually HIT the area where you have no control over them.  Ergo a turning ship moves out of the more dangerous areas.  I should know,  my primary line of battleships are German and the most I have EVER taken off of an AP squadron is right around twenty thousand.  AP bombs punish campers and people who sail in straight lines.

Graf Zeppelin and is stupid circle drop not withstanding.

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On 18/8/2018 at 12:38 AM, AlcatrazNC said:

AP bomb works fine against BB but you know something is wrong when even the Def AA of a CA can't stop those squadron from wiping that very CA .

This, happens to me in my Baltimore, 2 Bombs squads and the ship was destroy, DFAA activated. The enemy CV player told me ""hey Balti, DFAA its useless against circle bombing reticle, only a little bigger". I shot down some planes but was not enough. 

AP bombs, 40 sec radar at 10km or more and Stalincreep are all bad ideas, its not something new, its something broke. 

Sorry for my english. o7

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