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LancasterOne

Are AP bombs too powerful against battleships?

Are AP bombs too powerful against battleships?  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. Is AP bomb too powerful against battleships?

    • Yes
      39
    • No
      44
    • others
      10
    • I like AP bombs cos it helps me stat pad my avg dmg
      4

49 comments in this topic

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As a CV captain myself I sometimes find myself feeling absolutely filthy dropping AP bombs on battleships and dealing 15000, 20000 dmg per drop. That's basically half the avg dmg dealt by players in most games which is in the 40k range. I've mained battleships, I've mained CVs. I can't help but feel AP bombs do feel cheap. 

What is the forum's consensus?

Edited by LancasterOne
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Depends.  Not any dirtier than knocking out 15-20K damage on a good torpedo drop.  Not to mention they're mostly useless against DDs and Cruisers and don't stack DoT.

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16 minutes ago, DerKrampus said:

Depends.  Not any dirtier than knocking out 15-20K damage on a good torpedo drop.  Not to mention they're mostly useless against DDs and Cruisers and don't stack DoT.

Considering the drop circle even with manual drop on HE squads, no one really attack DDs or cruisers with DFAA unless something has gone horribly wrong. 

Torpedo drops are one thing because it does require some resemblance of skill on manual dropping, AP bombs thought with that tight grouping and potential for multiple citadels in one hit. That's not skill based at all. 

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They should do Pen damage not Citadel because in most situations when you get citadeled by a ship you have done something wrong but when its AP bombers and if you not under heavy AA coverage then your helpless 

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I citadeled a cruiser with a Langley HE bomb tonight.

But, Yeah..  Lexington has become a real contender with the addition of AP bombs and that real small manual drop circle.  Air Supremacy adds a bomber to the squad. 

Two bomber attacks can pretty much wipe out a German battleship.

Feels like dropping 'Tallboy's on a Tirpitz.

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AP bomb works fine against BB but you know something is wrong when even the Def AA of a CA can't stop those squadron from wiping that very CA .

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BBs AP bomb me in DDs all the time, so what goes around...

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35 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

I citadeled a cruiser with a Langley HE bomb tonight.

But, Yeah..  Lexington has become a real contender with the addition of AP bombs and that real small manual drop circle.  Air Supremacy adds a bomber to the squad. 

Two bomber attacks can pretty much wipe out a German battleship.

Feels like dropping 'Tallboy's on a Tirpitz.

In Killer Whale, I detonated a Kuma with Ryujo DBs. Fun fun.

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39 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Not just battleships, you should see what the Midway does to the Des Memes hahaha :cat_bubble:

Some poor lexington was trying to replicate this last night.

My ~1400 AA Dps at 7.2km was going to say otherwise.

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1 hour ago, LancasterOne said:

As a CV captain myself I sometimes find myself feeling absolutely filthy dropping AP bombs on battleships and dealing 15000, 20000 dmg per drop.

It's not infrequent for BB AP citadel hits on Cruisers to do the same thing. So if BBs are getting as severely hammered by AP bombs as they do to Cruisers with their AP,  I'm far from sympathetic.

War's hell!

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it's just like real life.CVs stomping battleships.

Edited by Cruxdei
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19 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

It's not infrequent for BB AP citadel hits on Cruisers to do the same thing. So if BBs are getting as severely hammered by AP bombs as they do to Cruisers with their AP,  I'm far from sympathetic.

War's hell!

For cruisers getting shot at, they can at least manoeuvre, for AP bombing runs, it just a point and click adventure especially with how small the AP reticle is compared to HE to begin with. I'm not even sure why WarGaming made that decision. 

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I don't think the actual alpha per bomb (even with cits) is too much, but the ability to stack them so tightly is. They should just either split the difference (so that HE and AP both have a spread that is between the current two), or at least just nerf AP spread by 50%, so that there's an even chance of landing and bracketing.

Of either type, the AP should be MORE reduced in accuracy from DFAA, not less. AP requires better placement to actually work.

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3 hours ago, LancasterOne said:

As a CV captain myself I sometimes find myself feeling absolutely filthy dropping AP bombs on battleships and dealing 15000, 20000 dmg per drop. That's basically half the avg dmg dealt by players in most games which is in the 40k range. I've mained battleships, I've mained CVs. I can't help but feel AP bombs do feel cheap. 

What is the forum's consensus?

Those AP bombs deliver nothing but overpens against many ships, and since they can't stack damage over time like an HE bomb - your total damage effectiveness is limited when you try to combine them with a torp drop.  If there are German BB's YAY!, everything else - MEH!  So no, I don't think they are overpowered against everything they face, they just have some advantages and disadvantages compared to regular HE Dive Bombers.

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AP bombs are stupid. They one-shot some battleships and bounce off the decks of others. And the ones they one-shot are the ones with the strongest deck armor, because they actually fuse in time to hit citadel. Oh, except GZ bombs, which have different fuses and rocket-assisted penetration. All in all, they're really just silly.

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2 hours ago, LancasterOne said:

Torpedo drops are one thing because it does require some resemblance of skill on manual dropping

As a CV player, I would debate that. If were talking about the ones dropping out at the range of auto drop and further out - yes, that actually requires skill. The guys dropping on a ships doorstep, honestly not really. Short of an agile ship like a DD, that actually is awake and moving, really not that hard. Sure I could pad my stats using it more but it's no damned fun. The difference between hitting a target at 5 feet vs 5000 feet. It's straight up OP and broken, and the only way the mechanic can stay is nerf the alpha damage on torps. Especially because that one thing alone is the min reason we have had multiple AA buffs reducing USN DB's to near useless barring the right scenario. Fix that crap and we can nerf AA some and really have a fight.

 

However, back on the topic, an HE bomb does a max damage to the citadel it doesn't hit since DD's had them removed of 10800, the AP deals 8000 and more likely to hit, has a far better drop circle, meaning way more likely to do 56000 damage in one strike, when realistically (yes I'm bringing some reality in here) the AP bomb they use in game, vs the HE bomb, has 1/3rd the explosives of the HE bomb yet does 4/5th's the damage? Yeah, it's OP. Any time you add massive damage with high accuracy, it's near inevitable - Sniper rifles in most any FPS game, MP-40 in W@W, manual drops here as well as ships like Nikolai. 

Much as AA at high tiers needs to be lowered some (low tiers need later war builds with some more AA, and the planes adjusted properly to compensate so there's a smoother transition in planes and AA through tiers and one doesn't just waltz through or blow the other away), AP bombs need their damage roughly halved with that accuracy, and with manual drops in play TB's as well or close to it. and dial in HE accuracy a bit because it's effective max damage is really 3564 per bomb for the 1000 lb ones, less for the others, if they pen. That or switch the drop circles that AP has less accuracy with it's ability to cit for 8k and HE is more accurate with it's max being just over 3.5k and more often in cases doing little to no damage vs several ships. 

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1 hour ago, Edgecase said:

AP bombs are stupid. They one-shot some battleships and bounce off the decks of others. And the ones they one-shot are the ones with the strongest deck armor, because they actually fuse in time to hit citadel. Oh, except GZ bombs, which have different fuses and rocket-assisted penetration. All in all, they're really just silly.

Actually from what players have data-mined the BBs that are immune have MORE armor. So your tirp/bis is worse than an NC in terms of deck layers (there are more than whats seen in armor viewer). This is why Graf is so good, as its AP bombs have something like an extra 100mm of pen compared to American ones.

And cruisers aren't immune. Tier 9-10 games they're primary targets.

I'd feel bad but BBs don't shed tears when they blap cruisers or DDs so why should I? 

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5 minutes ago, ksix said:

Actually from what players have data-mined the BBs that are immune have MORE armor. So your tirp/bis is worse than an NC in terms of deck layers (there are more than whats seen in armor viewer). This is why Graf is so good, as its AP bombs have something like an extra 100mm of pen compared to American ones.

And cruisers aren't immune. Tier 9-10 games they're primary targets.

I'd feel bad but BBs don't shed tears when they blap cruisers or DDs so why should I? 

You may be correct about the unlisted mechanics of which BBs get one-shotted and which don't, but in the end, it's a silly system with very limited counterplay options. Ditto for cruisers getting whacked through the supposed deterrent ability (DFAA). Multiple cases of bad design don't make good design.

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4 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

They should do Pen damage not Citadel because in most situations when you get citadeled by a ship you have done something wrong but when its AP bombers and if you not under heavy AA coverage then your helpless 

And if you get citadel by AP bombs then you did something wrong as well.  It isn't hard to maneuver out of the way of incoming bombers,  man.  The only way you should ever take citadels off of bombers is if you're going in straight lines or sitting still.  No excuse not to turn your ship and throw off the bombing circle. 

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10 minutes ago, Palladia said:

And if you get citadel by AP bombs then you did something wrong as well.  It isn't hard to maneuver out of the way of incoming bombers,  man.  The only way you should ever take citadels off of bombers is if you're going in straight lines or sitting still.  No excuse not to turn your ship and throw off the bombing circle. 

 Us in the sky can adjust the drop to predict your location faster than you can complete a move. 

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AP bomb is totally balanced. Its the stupidity of players makes it OP.


My  Zao has manual aa, BFT and increased aa range upgrade with def aa consumables. I tested it out in random battles, without def aa active, I shot down 20 GZ AP dive bombers after 2 bomb runs against a good cv player. However, the BB sailed out of my AA range got nuked. Its always like this. I also tested AA yamato with inreased aa survivability, inreased aa range upgrade, +25% aa effeciency mod. I was able to shoot down 20 Midway planes in one single battle.


There are only a handful of players on NA server know how to play a non-cv ship in a cv game. They spread out without overlapping their aa bubble. They shoot bb instead of enemy AA cruisers. When they got HE spammed, they keep shooting without conservering their dying AA guns. Yeah, when they got dropped by AP bombers, they blame their CV teamate.


It so funny that when in a non cv game, players are supposed to spread out, gaining map control and creating cross fire and yet they lemming train to the corner of the map and get slaughtered. In a cv game, on the other hand, players are supposed to stick close for mutual aa support and yet they wondering alone in open water and get picked off by T10 CV. Players will never ever understand these 2 simple rules.


AP bomb (in fact T10 cv as a whole) is totally balanced when you know how to play in a cv game. As a BB, you shoot AP at aa cruisers to demolish their non fly zones. You shoot HE at BB to force out dmg con and kill off their AA guns. You shoot whatever you have at DD. You stick close together and stay alive as long as possible without suciding into a cap for some less useful capping points. You let your CV to do the dmg instead. At the end, you win by killing more ships and dying less.


SO, if a player get one shoted by AP bombers, he/she totally deserves that.

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3 hours ago, ihsasum said:

SO, if a player get one shoted by AP bombers, he/she totally deserves that.

Thumbs up for you, you pretty much covered everything in your post and explained it well but missed 1 thing, even if there is a CV DIV on the team people seem to not understand how that works and how to use it to win the match, I have done it a few times with my clan and both of them went to a  cap each to shut down the CV but players still went off on there own and then wondered why they got hit by the enemy CV. 

AP bombs are fine if you look at the ships that they work on and do real damage to there is not a lot, then factor in the time it takes to launch, fly to target, shrike, fly back and reload it's not a shot trip and could take a few min. so if we say i.e 3 min in that time how much damage could a BB, cruiser or DD do to you in that time. The 1 and only reason people notice it and complain about it is because the damage is in 1 strike it's not spread over the 3 min time frame. 

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BBs suffer from AP bombs? Maybe you play German BBs only... I think high tier CAs suffers a great more than BBs. AP bombers can only deal some reasonable dmg to BBs (except German BBs though). However, it can one-shot many cruisers. A skilled Midway player has no issue bail out a full HP DM's DFAA and then perma fk him and send him back port. Among all Tier X cruisers, I think only the Hindy and Mino will not receive citadels from AP bomber. DM, Worchester and Moskva are almost guaranteed citadel. Most tier 9 cruisers also eat citadals from AP bombers. US CAs suffers most because they often play quite stationary behind mountain, which makes the cv easier to drop them.

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