Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
MutsuKaiNi

A secondary focused IJN BB?

75 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

425
[RKN]
Members
297 posts
10,291 battles

So now with Masshole in the game as the US secondary focused BB could the IJN maybe get a BB like this as well? There are a couple candidates that could possibly fulfill this role

At T6 we could get Kongo (in game Kongo is Hiei) or Haruna, the Kongo class has respectable seconderies and good speed.

T8 has a few options as well, the Tosa class would have had a strong secondary battery, an Amagi class with the name Azumaya would also be viable, as would a Kii class with the name Owari. These are a few options for just such a ship.

Any other suggestions would also be appreciated.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,105
[CRMSN]
Members
8,340 posts
8,908 battles

Their armor isn't nearly as good as Massachusetts', that's a major hindrance for a secondary focused ship. All the Kongo's are already in the game, as well. It's bad enough with Bayern and Gneisenau and their secondaries, as well. For the higher tiers, I feel the armor holds them back, too. Plus, they have more main guns than what they face, already, tossing long range secondaries into the mix wouldn't be fair and "balanced." Just my opinion. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,761
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
23,344 posts
3,895 battles

Nagato, Amagi, and especially Yamato have good to great secondaries.

 

Before Gneisnau, Nagato was the mid-tier secondary queen.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
307
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
1,272 posts
5,683 battles

The general consensus seems to be lack of armor yet Amagi with a full secondary build can hold her own in most cases the downside being lack of torps for those in your face knifefights. So a Kii derivative with an slight armor buff and a secondary buff may well be a viable and interesting answer... Don't knock Mass OP, she's everything Alabama should have been and a real fun ship to play.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,795
[WOLF1]
Beta Testers
8,608 posts
12,126 battles
16 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Nagato, Amagi, and especially Yamato have good to great secondaries.

 

Before Gneisnau, Nagato was the mid-tier secondary queen.

This ^^^ You can do well in a secondary build Nagato

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
5,952 posts
4,686 battles

Aren't Japanese battleships known more from mid to long-ish range attacking and somewhat flimsy armor?  Big Mamie feels like a alternate Tirpitz because her armor is half-decent (worse than Derpitz, but better than other ships), better guns (more accurate), and just-as-good secondaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
549
[QNA]
[QNA]
Members
2,099 posts
6,285 battles

Nagato was the de facto Secondary Gun ship before the Germans came. We also already have Kongo, Kirashima, Hiei and Haruna and mine are personally set up differently each with Haruna being my main ship out the the four.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,761
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
23,344 posts
3,895 battles
4 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Nagato was the de facto Secondary Gun ship before the Germans came. We also already have Kongo, Kirashima, Hiei and Haruna and mine are personally set up differently each with Haruna being my main ship out the the four.

Coatboat bestboat

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,629
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,794 posts
3,975 battles

Personally, long-range secondaries should have been an IJN thing; considering the line has predominantly AP-firing secondaries (a rarity even amongst other BB lines) until T8, where the number of barrels match, then shifts to predominantly HE on Izumo and Yamato. Matching the German or French BBs' secondary ranges per tier.

As for possible Premiums:

Haruna makes for an ideal one at T6. Just tighten up her secondary accuracy, extend them to 6km base, and just improve main gun reload to 30s. Any remaining buffs would be to her HP pool given her greater displacement, and armoring if necessary.

A fictional 3rd Nagato sister ship could work. Trade the 2.0 sigma for 1.7, buff the main guns reload to 30s even, and just extend the secondary range to 6.5~7km. (Mutsu 1943 wouldn't work; she's better off as a main gun-focused battleship with virtually no AA; similar to Arizona.)

Kii would work perfectly, if WG would just unnerf her. 30s main gun reload, buff her TDS and armor to match Amagi, and extend the secondary range to match Massachusetts with 7.5km base range. Kii would trade having torpedoes for worse secondary accuracy, but can mitigate it with adding IFHE to really make her 10cm guns sting.

A T10 Musashi 1944 would work as well; trading traverse (back to the old 72s) and main gun accuracy (1.7 or 1.8 sigma) for better maneuverability and a secondary range matching Republique. Just give her the old Super Heal to survive tanking while up-close.

A T10 BB Shinano also would work, but she'd be a bit strong, considering all the planned upgrades that were supposed to go on her. Specifically: 10cm DP secondaries, redistributed armor to further protect the citadel and lighten the main turrets, and better turret motors. Otherwise, giving her the same general stats as T10 Musashi 1944 would make her a strong secondary-focused BB. Stronger than Musashi 1944 due to 10cm DPs being a net buff, and the traverse buff (even if it's just 60s rather than 72s), and the strengthened citadel armor.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
449
[90TH]
Members
980 posts
9,075 battles
9 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Yavuz said:

Aren't Japanese battleships known more from mid to long-ish range attacking and somewhat flimsy armor?  Big Mamie feels like a alternate Tirpitz because her armor is half-decent (worse than Derpitz, but better than other ships), better guns (more accurate), and just-as-good secondaries.

Reality never encumbered the Russian line.  Just make up some fantasy boat that has a Myoko on each side for secondaries, along with Amagi’s guns, and oh, 40kt speed because why not it’s just paper ships anyway. :Smile_sceptic:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33
Members
117 posts
42 battles
14 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Yavuz said:

Aren't Japanese battleships known more from mid to long-ish range attacking and somewhat flimsy armor?  Big Mamie feels like a Tirpitz Plus because her armor is half-decent (worse than Derpitz, but better than other ships), better guns (more accurate), and just-as-good secondaries.

They have quite a fierce secondary volume, but the ranges are often not competitive. Also, they fire lots of AP unlike the competition, and the effectiveness of that  really peters out after the mid tiers.

A secondary-build Nagato used to really be a thing. A division mate ran one often and it was impressive.

Spoiler

Nagato_secondaries.jpg

But then the Germans came with equal or better secondaries, AND far better brawling armour scheme, AND torpedoes, AND hydro.

I still find a secondary-heavy Mutsu or Fuso really fun in operations. The range is only like 6 km, but it's less of an issue with those bloodthirsty bots coming right at you.

 

Edited by jss78

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,201 posts
3,953 battles

The AP shells would need improved performance,  if they kept them.  AP secondaries peak at about T6 with the Bayern and then gradually get less useful as armor increases.  The 155's on the Izumo SHOULD be decent but since you get so few of them and they have terrible firing angles its hard to judge them and her 127's HE comes off as lackluster and I can't figure out why.   Rate of fire,  maybe?  Meh.

Anyway,  as other people have pointed out a secondary focused IJN BB ((Love the idea,  by the way)) would need an armor buff and a performance buff on her secondaries.  Or a combination of armor buff,  secondary buff,  and gimmick like the Massachusetts 40 second heal.  I dunno how feasible it is,  not a ship buff like some of the good people round these parts,  but I wouldn't mind seeing an IJN BB split with one side focusing on secondaries to contrast the long range nature of the main IJN line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,536 posts
10 battles

The simple fact that Wargaming insists on gimmick builds for ships has pretty much ruined the game. All battleships should have realistic secondary ranges. This would encourage all battleships to close with the enemy and put an end to the edge camping sniping meta that as made the game boring. However this game was never intended to be fun for the customer, it was set up from the start to extract money from the player base. Creating a game that has a long term player base and a good community has never crossed their minds.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
5,952 posts
4,686 battles
29 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Reality never encumbered the Russian line.  Just make up some fantasy boat that has a Myoko on each side for secondaries, along with Amagi’s guns, and oh, 40kt speed because why not it’s just paper ships anyway. :Smile_sceptic:

*plays Russian National Anthem on bass*

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,761
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
23,344 posts
3,895 battles
16 minutes ago, UssIowaSailor said:

The simple fact that Wargaming insists on gimmick builds for ships has pretty much ruined the game. All battleships should have realistic secondary ranges. This would encourage all battleships to close with the enemy and put an end to the edge camping sniping meta that as made the game boring. However this game was never intended to be fun for the customer, it was set up from the start to extract money from the player base. Creating a game that has a long term player base and a good community has never crossed their minds.

So... Longer ranges would encourage them to get closer...

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
333
[-K-]
Members
1,149 posts
8,034 battles

As others have said, Nagato.  Back before the German BBs were added, she was my secondary queen.  The main issue with Nagato's secondaries compared to something like Bismarck or Massachusetts is that most of her secondary battery (the 18x1 140mm casemate guns) fire AP shells, so firesetting isn't as good, and you get a lot more bounces and shatters than the more HE heavy Germans and Americans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,142
[HINON]
Privateers
6,265 posts
3,274 battles

We already have a secondary focused IJN BB. She's even a premium. Granted, there are some issues with her, like her underperforming main guns, or her speed issues. And then there are the tiering issues....

Regardless, Mikasa fills the criteria! 

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,201 posts
3,953 battles
1 minute ago, RivertheRoyal said:

We already have a secondary focused IJN BB. She's even a premium. Granted, there are some issues with her, like her underperforming main guns, or her speed issues. And then there are the tiering issues....

Regardless, Mikasa fills the criteria! 

*Blinks*  Oh yeah.  I uh...sorta forgot all about her. And I HAVE her.  Secondary specced and everything.  She's just so...meh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
423
[ARP2]
Members
1,368 posts
3,637 battles

All I want for Kurisumas is 0.5 km more range on tiers 6-8 IJN BBs secondaries.  Please :D

I will also accept a secondary focused IJN BB premium. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,143 posts
3,273 battles

I've been running Secondaries on my IJN BBs as I'm making my way to Yamato and their ability to do damage has been good; even though they're mostly AP Secondaries. 

Also... err... buff Musashi? By comparison her MBs are "German" when compared to Yamato. So why not make her the the secondary version..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
177
[B2P]
Members
568 posts
16,239 battles

I ran with a secondary focused Amagi for quite awhile and really liked it when I could get close enough to use them.  But then meta changed a bit and stealth became a bit more important, so I shifted it more towards that.  The fast firing seconds of the Amagi, and it's balance of AP and HE worked quite well sometimes.  Absolutely shredded a Donskoi once who go far too close to me and broadsides.  As I recall, got just as much damage from the seconds on that one as I did from the mains.

I'd be more than willing to try it again if they improved the secondary ranges for the IJN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,761
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
23,344 posts
3,895 battles
2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A High Tier Premium IJN BB loaded with long ranged IJN 100mm guns would be hilarious to see.  It'd have to be Paper.

It's called Kii and already exists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,154
[WOLF3]
Members
20,943 posts
19,393 battles
Just now, KiyoSenkan said:

It's called Kii and already exists.

Brawling Kii Secondary Build with that very questionable armor scheme and short ranged Secondary Battery isn't that candidate.  It's one of the most suboptimal brawling battleships in high tier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
549
[QNA]
[QNA]
Members
2,099 posts
6,285 battles

I find it more amusing when a USN Cruiser goes broadside to my Battleships. It's like, you got no torpedoes so why you on a torpedo run. It's just he looks at me, and I look at him with my bigger guns and he disappears.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×