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Things that could make clans battles better and get CV's into them.
consumables, Anti-Air, Static boat types and matchmaking. Consumables are out of control, to many boats have to many different consumables that give them an edge over other boats with no negative effects. Destroyers should never get defensive fire because they just can't fit enough AA mounts on their hull to get the ability and since they have a high mobility why do they need it? Cruisers should only get defensive fire if they pick an AA hull, and battle ships should get defensive fire because of the large amount of AA mounts they have already. The Anti Air in tiers 8,9,10 are to high and people stop playing their Aircraft Carrier just out of frustration of not being able to do anything. The boat types are limited and you can only play a boat one way, why not give different hull types so the player can change the boat spec to suit what he needs or wants more of. If a player wants to go Anti Destroyer he can pick a radar hull that will come with less main guns but a long range radar, if he wants to go Anti Air he can get an AA hull that will have more AA mounts with longer range and less main guns. Aircraft Carriers shouldn't be able to short drop torpedoes and bombs. Finally match making, i would wait an extra minute in queue if it means i would never have to face ships higher then one tier above me, it isn't fun and feels like i'm wasting my time playing that match.

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Today I played 16 tier 8 to 10 matches....

Half had carriers....

Makes your post mute...

....

It really determines what time of day or night you play...

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@Fox_Deus and I would love to have the game tailored to meet my every desire also! Don't hold your breath!

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8 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Today I played 16 tier 8 to 10 matches....

Half had carriers....

Makes your post mute...

....

It really determines what time of day or night you play...

Moot, not mute.

Mute means silent (roughly).  Moot means irrelevant.

 

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8 hours ago, Fox_Deus said:

Things that could make clans battles better and get CV's into them.
consumables, Anti-Air, Static boat types and matchmaking. Consumables are out of control, to many boats have to many different consumables that give them an edge over other boats with no negative effects. Destroyers should never get defensive fire because they just can't fit enough AA mounts on their hull to get the ability and since they have a high mobility why do they need it? Cruisers should only get defensive fire if they pick an AA hull, and battle ships should get defensive fire because of the large amount of AA mounts they have already. The Anti Air in tiers 8,9,10 are to high and people stop playing their Aircraft Carrier just out of frustration of not being able to do anything. The boat types are limited and you can only play a boat one way, why not give different hull types so the player can change the boat spec to suit what he needs or wants more of. If a player wants to go Anti Destroyer he can pick a radar hull that will come with less main guns but a long range radar, if he wants to go Anti Air he can get an AA hull that will have more AA mounts with longer range and less main guns. Aircraft Carriers shouldn't be able to short drop torpedoes and bombs. Finally match making, i would wait an extra minute in queue if it means i would never have to face ships higher then one tier above me, it isn't fun and feels like i'm wasting my time playing that match.

 

1.  It's "too many", not "to many".  Good grief.

2.  This is a fine example of a newbie posting, showing his inexperience in the game.

3. Historically speaking, I agree that DDs should not have Def AA.  Hell, I don't think that the DefAA consumable should exist in the first place.  And that all ships should have whatever AA  capabilities they have based on the AA guns they mount.  And as such, BBs would have the best AA of any ships in the game.  This isn't to be a battleship fanboy.  But the reality is (or was) that the strength of a ship's AA was how many AA guns it could mount.  And the number of AA guns a ship could mount was largely a function of the amount of deck space on said ship.  Therefore, BBs, being the largest ships, had the most AA guns.  (CVs while very large, didn't have all that much deck space because their flight deck really couldn't count as deck space for this purpose because it had to remain clear for the CV's aircraft to operate.)

3. There's no need to have different hulls to define different roles a player wants to choose to outfit his ship for.  That's essentially the purpose of Upgrade Modules and Consumables.

 

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wow so many forum elitist just talking out their stern with nothing really constructive to say in the matter. the idea is to bring CVs into clan battles and help balance out the Cruiser as well. Also making the CV not nearly as powerful with taking away their short dropping and give more defense to the bigger less mobile ships (that have more AA mounts). As for the CV drop out rate, I have a lot of clans and friends i talk with on this game and they all said the same thing. they stopped playing their CV around T8 because of AA. And why continue? you can't take them into clan battles. As for the hull stuff. It would be a good way to fix the problem of linear game play. there isn't much you can do but you can make things more flexible and give people better options with some consequences to help balance out the ship. Cruisers are by far the most useful boat in the game in the higher tiers and what do they do every game? camp, they run radar to spot out DD's making them nearly useless and heavy AA so you can't even get near the fleet with planes. Hull types that give them advantages in one area but take away in another would give them better roles in battles, also targets that need protecting from the fleet. This would change the game play in a way to make it more realistic and fun for different players that would enjoy more supporting roles.

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1 hour ago, Fox_Deus said:

wow so many forum elitist just talking out their stern with nothing really constructive to say in the matter. the idea is to bring CVs into clan battles and help balance out the Cruiser as well. Also making the CV not nearly as powerful with taking away their short dropping and give more defense to the bigger less mobile ships (that have more AA mounts). As for the CV drop out rate, I have a lot of clans and friends i talk with on this game and they all said the same thing. they stopped playing their CV around T8 because of AA. And why continue? you can't take them into clan battles. As for the hull stuff. It would be a good way to fix the problem of linear game play. there isn't much you can do but you can make things more flexible and give people better options with some consequences to help balance out the ship. Cruisers are by far the most useful boat in the game in the higher tiers and what do they do every game? camp, they run radar to spot out DD's making them nearly useless and heavy AA so you can't even get near the fleet with planes. Hull types that give them advantages in one area but take away in another would give them better roles in battles, also targets that need protecting from the fleet. This would change the game play in a way to make it more realistic and fun for different players that would enjoy more supporting roles.

1. I had plenty of constructive things to say.  You just didn't want to listen.  But secondly, go run to your safe space if you can handle legitimate criticism.

2. It's a dumb idea, Deus.  The current model of having different capabilities built into upgrade modules and consumables works just fine.  This doesn't mean that the devs can't consider rebalancing AA, if they think that it's out of whack.  But they don't need to change the entire way things are done to do it.  Also note that I did happen to mostly agree with you on DefAA.

3. As for getting CVs into clan battles, not just no, but HELL NO.  Wait for the CV rework and then we'll see.

4. I still think that you sound like a newbie that doesn't really understand the game and its mechanics.

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Still so condescending but you are finally understanding what i'm getting at. What i'm going after is a CV rework idea(i understand they are doing one). This is just an idea on how to fix some big problems with a few different boats. I don't care if you like it or not but you gave no reason why it was bad just that you thought hull swapping in that manner was redundant, ok. then you finally said what was the only statement needed 

1 hour ago, Crucis said:

3. As for getting CVs into clan battles, not just no, but HELL NO.  Wait for the CV rework and then we'll see.

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing just by saying that in the first place. That's all you have to add to the subject. The whole point of this is to work them into clan battles but as they are now it can't be done, and as other boats are its not going to work. But thanks for playing better luck next time.

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39 minutes ago, Fox_Deus said:

Still so condescending but you are finally understanding what i'm getting at. What i'm going after is a CV rework idea(i understand they are doing one). This is just an idea on how to fix some big problems with a few different boats. I don't care if you like it or not but you gave no reason why it was bad just that you thought hull swapping in that manner was redundant, ok. then you finally said what was the only statement needed 

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing just by saying that in the first place. That's all you have to add to the subject. The whole point of this is to work them into clan battles but as they are now it can't be done, and as other boats are its not going to work. But thanks for playing better luck next time.

You call it condescending.  I call it giving you a bucket full of the ice cold water of reality. 

Regarding CBs, nothing you suggested would fix the real problem with carriers and why they're not allowed in clan battles.  That problem has nothing to do with AA.  It has to do with player skill differential and its affect on carriers and on battles as a whole.  On top of that, it would be far worse in CBs because of smaller teams.  If CVs were allowed, it would completely prevent any of the current tactics in CBs because teams would be forced to form up into anti-air blobs to survive, particularly against strong carrier players.  It would turn clan battles into CV wars where all the other ships would exist for no other reason than to support their CV.  And that would be boring as … all hell.  It would completely ruin clan battles for all but the few clans with unicum CV mains.

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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

You call it condescending.  I call it giving you a bucket full of the ice cold water of reality. 

1. Its an idea not realistic in the game now, i'm not sure you understand the concept of this forum. 

 

10 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Regarding CBs, nothing you suggested would fix the real problem with carriers and why they're not allowed in clan battles.  That problem has nothing to do with AA.  It has to do with player skill differential and its affect on carriers and on battles as a whole.  On top of that, it would be far worse in CBs because of smaller teams.  If CVs were allowed, it would completely prevent any of the current tactics in CBs because teams would be forced to form up into anti-air blobs to survive, particularly against strong carrier players.  It would turn clan battles into CV wars where all the other ships would exist for no other reason than to support their CV.  And that would be boring as … all hell.  It would completely ruin clan battles for all but the few clans with unicum CV mains.

2. There are many problems for CVs in clan battles hence why i talked about some very BIG nerfs to their play style and abilities as well as buffs to other ships to counter them.

3. All players have different skill levels so just because it's a CV player doesn't mean anything. You are still looking at it from how things are now.

4. Ships often ran in flotillas in real life because of planes so are you saying you are worried that it would make game play to realistic?

5. CV's will be in clan battles at some point just how they are put in is the problem, and that is what this thread is all about. Again you could have just said from the very start you don't want them in then left. But at least you are now giving some very basic reasons why you don't want them in. Thanks for the contribution.

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:49 PM, Fox_Deus said:

Things that could make clans battles better and get CV's into them.
consumables, Anti-Air, Static boat types and matchmaking. Consumables are out of control, to many boats have to many different consumables that give them an edge over other boats with no negative effects. Destroyers should never get defensive fire because they just can't fit enough AA mounts on their hull to get the ability and since they have a high mobility why do they need it? Cruisers should only get defensive fire if they pick an AA hull, and battle ships should get defensive fire because of the large amount of AA mounts they have already. The Anti Air in tiers 8,9,10 are to high and people stop playing their Aircraft Carrier just out of frustration of not being able to do anything. The boat types are limited and you can only play a boat one way, why not give different hull types so the player can change the boat spec to suit what he needs or wants more of. If a player wants to go Anti Destroyer he can pick a radar hull that will come with less main guns but a long range radar, if he wants to go Anti Air he can get an AA hull that will have more AA mounts with longer range and less main guns. Aircraft Carriers shouldn't be able to short drop torpedoes and bombs. Finally match making, i would wait an extra minute in queue if it means i would never have to face ships higher then one tier above me, it isn't fun and feels like i'm wasting my time playing that match.

I disagree. I don't believe consumables are out of control. As a carrier commander in Midway, I have some issues with spec AA build ships, but not a whole lot. If AA build ships are shooting down all you planes, are you running a carrier build ? I generally do and my aircraft are pretty tough. The player captain and ships build makes a lot of difference in this game. IF one does not run a carrier build (or with one or two off skills), their planes will be swatted out of the sky by cruisers and some battleships alike....

As far as surface ships being "short dropped on" this tells me that the particular ship lacks in AA protection, as many cruisers will shred planes (that are not buffed by a carrier build) and battleships will shoot down one or two aircraft before they get close in.

Carriers are becoming rare as dinosaurs, but I don't think that is for the reasons you list. I believe it's because of two reasons, one team response to aircraft carriers if they win the game for the team, respond to every fighter request and are in the right place every time they are hailed as the hero. But if they don't win the game for the team, they are demonized. "Get Good" in Co-op is said, "Uninstall" etc. That can be demoralizing. when I have done my best. The losing team needs to not bully their CV driver. Co-op does not provide the same (in fact less) XP or credit rewards, so if one wants to "practice" in co-op, they can't with out going broke there and being stalled at their tier. That is the reality of Co-op. And losing team members "sentencing" a player their is not practical. If Wargaming gives Co-op equal rewards to players compared to random, more would play there and "Get Good". But that again is not the reality  and no one wants to sit at tier III or whatever for five times longer playing in co-op to get to tier IV. They will play random to advance and earn medals.                               The Carrier is only one ship, while powerful it is still only one ship.

 Two, when an Japanese aircraft carrier is put against an American that has three fighters, three torpedo bombers, and two dive bombers (or overall more squadrons than the American carrier) that put the whole team at a disadvantage from the start. Both of these issues cause carriers to be rare. It is so frustrating to be matched against a Japanese Carrier that wipes the American planes out (with more fighter squadrons), and/or their three torpedo squadrons are sent against one battleship or cruiser. Both of these things have occurred when playing and then I am almost useless from the start. Wargaming needs to remove the superior tier planes from Japanese carriers and the superior numbers of squadrons at every tier. At Tier X, Hakryu even runs tier X aircraft and Midway, only has tier IX aircraft. Midway needs to get her tier X aircraft back

Destroyers with Defensive fire exist because wargaming was seeing carriers smash DD's sometimes and wanted to give DD's a little bit more of a defense. However, with a carrier build the defensive AA from a DD is not all that powerful anyway, unless a carrier commander puts their planes over a DD for an extended period of time.

As far as higher tiers match making reduced to one tier, if implemented we would see higher wait times and we would see a lower variety of enemy ships. While I don't like being two tiers below enemy ships, sometimes I am two tiers about or for that matter the same tier as an enemy ships. So it all evens out over 15-20 battles or so. So that to me is acceptable. Basically, there is no way to have the "best battle of the day, week, or year" every battle, every day.... some battles will be better than others.

Maybe their in the future will be an option to player specify, one or two tier difference in match making... who knows.

Also, carrier planes breaking thru enemy ship AA and dropping torpedoes on them, dive bombing them or later in the war kamikaze attacks is historically accurate. See every battle in the Pacific theatre during world war II. Some enemy aircraft just break thru... despite the gallant efforts of the ships AA spotters, directors and gunners that's reality.

Edited by Ben_CA68
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7 hours ago, Ben_CA68 said:

I disagree. I don't believe consumables are out of control. As a carrier commander in Midway, I have some issues with spec AA build ships, but not a whole lot. If AA build ships are shooting down all you planes, are you running a carrier build ? I generally do and my aircraft are pretty tough. The player captain and ships build makes a lot of difference in this game. IF one does not run a carrier build (or with one or two off skills), their planes will be swatted out of the sky by cruisers and some battleships alike....

The problem with it is mostly not at t10 vs t10 but there still needs to be fixes too. It's mostly match making with the higher tier boats getting in with lower tier CVs (also because there aren't enough CV players). it's so many AA boats with Def. Fire and other boat problems that makes AA to much and to help balance that i talked about nerfs to the CVs that wouldn't make them as powerful like no short drop. Also these nerfs would be needed if we ever want CVs to be in clan battles with the low number of ships per battle. If CVs can't short drop you also don't need a crazy amount of AA to protect boats because they can't maximize damage on you, and so you would have to bring up CV bomb and torp damage to help balance the loss in focus dropping. This is also why Def. Fire for BBs that are bigger, less mobile ships would make more sense and because of the amount of AA mounts they have on the boats. Cruisers are just to powerful a boat right now, they are fast, mobile, good damage, good AA, good radar and that's why i bring up new ship hull types that you can hard spec into an ability like an AA build hull that has draw backs to other systems, you don't give up much in going AA spec as it is right now.

 

8 hours ago, Ben_CA68 said:

Destroyers with Defensive fire exist because wargaming was seeing carriers smash DD's sometimes and wanted to give DD's a little bit more of a defense. However, with a carrier build the defensive AA from a DD is not all that powerful anyway, unless a carrier commander puts their planes over a DD for an extended period of time.

Def. Fire for the fast and agile DDs just doesn't make sense, not to talk about the low amount of AA mounts they can fit on their deck to start with.  it wouldn't be so bad if Def. Fire didn't mess up drop angles but i like that feature just it's not needed for DDs in any way or form.

most of everything else you talked about i can't say more on or i agree with you.

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5 hours ago, Fox_Deus said:

Def. Fire for the fast and agile DDs just doesn't make sense, not to talk about the low amount of AA mounts they can fit on their deck to start with.  it wouldn't be so bad if Def. Fire didn't mess up drop angles but i like that feature just it's not needed for DDs in any way or form.

Drive some high tier DDs for a few matches against a CV before suggesting that, being perma spotted for a match by a CV ruins your match.  No ship should be able to completely negate another ships chances to play its role. 

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1 hour ago, VeatherVitch said:

Drive some high tier DDs for a few matches against a CV before suggesting that, being perma spotted for a match by a CV ruins your match.  No ship should be able to completely negate another ships chances to play its role. 

They do have smoke but you can only perma spot a DD if it's off on it's own, away from the fleet. I don't really consider that right since they went solo. Any ship off on it's own will get focused and killed. Not only all that but radar was put in just because DDs would kite slower ships with no way to find them, so the plane spotting isn't that bad when you take it all into account i think. Also spotting a DD with a plane takes away a CV resource. It be like removing one of your ship gun turrets just to spot a DD. However it's not like they shouldn't get any AA just not something like Def. Fire that just turns you into a AA King for a boat with 1/5 the amount of AA mounts on a BB, and BBs don't even have Def. Fire. But if you really want to be an AA DD then i would be fine with a hull spec where you lost nearly all your main guns for AA mounts. Then you could have Def. Fire in my mind.

Edited by Fox_Deus

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