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RagingxMarmoset

British 419mm armor piercing looks really good. Why the HE spam?

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Maybe I'm missing something, but why aren't people abusing what appears to be an excellent AP round from the big British guns? Yeah, the HE has a high fire chance, but citadels and full penetrations strip off health that can't be restored. Don't they also have a short arming time that reduces overpens? I don't get the HE appeal. Help me out here.

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Because you can just hit the 1 key, switch your brain off, and farm big damage numbers.  Switching ammo types requires some level of thought and planning.  It is a kind of boring play style.  Even Jingles doesn't like to post Conq replays as all they tend to be are people just sitting back and spamming HE.  He talks about it some here

 

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Honestly, I don’t know either, despite noticing exactly that, Flamu even did an AP only challenge to great effect. The rounds have decent pen and arming times, as well as good alpha. 

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5 minutes ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why aren't people abusing what appears to be an excellent AP round from the big British guns? Yeah, the HE has a high fire chance, but citadels and full penetrations strip off health that can't be restored. Don't they also have a short arming time that reduces overpens? I don't get the HE appeal. Help me out here.

It's because HE requires less effort and can farm high damage numbers that look good to stat padders, even if it doesn't actually take ships out of the fight.

People who actually want to win use AP with the Conq.

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Just now, landedkiller said:

 High fire chance on he rounds plus decent alpha.

All of which gets repaired. No one cares about being set on fire. Smash them for 25k that they can't fix and suddenly they're changing tactics.

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2 minutes ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

All of which gets repaired. No one cares about being set on fire. Smash them for 25k that they can't fix and suddenly they're changing tactics.

I was merely answering your question Ap works good as well.

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The British BB's are flavored that way..High damage for little effort. Yes Fire damage can be repaired but the player would rather farm longer instead of the kill shot.

WG has made the Damage Count priority and until this is radically changed HE will remain. 

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14 minutes ago, NATOMarksman said:

It's because HE requires less effort and can farm high damage numbers that look good to stat padders, even if it doesn't actually take ships out of the fight.

People who actually want to win use AP with the Conq.

I'm not stellar with Conq but I do know last I looked I had a 60%+WR with it and used AP quite a bit. HE is fun and good to start fires initially but then you bang away with that AP for real damage. AP does nasty things to cruisers.

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34 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

I was merely answering your question Ap works good as well.

yeah i love having to go park and not help for 2 repair cycles to get back all the easy fire damage,... meanwhile all the sub par players are dropping like flys on my team because i was burnt quickly 

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The main reason is xp/credit farming. A conq can rack up insane damage numbers with fire .. firing from very long range and touching every ship in the map (and setting it on fire).

AP is good.. but it is subject to distance and angling. HE works no matter what.

I don't see why WG decided to give one ship such insane damage output AND such a crazy repair ability...plus stealth plus speed plus turn radius.

It's like a test template for Russian BBs and...

oh wait. O.o

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16 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

The main reason is xp/credit farming. A conq can rack up insane damage numbers with fire .. firing from very long range and touching every ship in the map (and setting it on fire).

AP is good.. but it is subject to distance and angling. HE works no matter what.

I don't see why WG decided to give one ship such insane damage output AND such a crazy repair ability...plus stealth plus speed plus turn radius.

It's like a test template for Russian BBs and...

oh wait. O.o

GULAG FOR YOU!!!

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1 hour ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why aren't people abusing what appears to be an excellent AP round from the big British guns? Yeah, the HE has a high fire chance, but citadels and full penetrations strip off health that can't be restored. Don't they also have a short arming time that reduces overpens? I don't get the HE appeal. Help me out here.

Shhhh.  Nope,  UK BB AP is horrendous.  

You should absolutely never hit the 2 key in any UK BB..............:Smile_hiding:, HE always for uber winrates...........:Smile_hiding:

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1 hour ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why aren't people abusing what appears to be an excellent AP round from the big British guns? Yeah, the HE has a high fire chance, but citadels and full penetrations strip off health that can't be restored. Don't they also have a short arming time that reduces overpens? I don't get the HE appeal. Help me out here.

Because HE is funner! All the crying about it that comes with it is amazing fuel for your fires! :P

Actually, the ship seems to be less trollish. Or less effective at trolling lately. People are starting to realize it's no big deal I expect. If it wasn't for the fun of HE there's no reason to play it over, say, Montana. it's stealthier than Montana, but Monty is better in every other way I can think of. 

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Well if you go AP you have to aim right, hope you hit a citadel or pen the target because they can angle and just bounce your salvo.

HE: Cant bounce them, will cause fire damage, you murder modules on hit, British HE hit like a truck and well you do not rely on RnG and luck to cause damage.

 

HE in general is a bit stupid in this game but the British BB are really taking it to another level.

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RN BB AP is perfectly serviceable, it behaves differently to all other BB AP, that’s part of the reason people avoid it because experience doesn’t translate across well. RN AP requires a different approach, you seek to hit upper belt and superstructure more over aiming for waterline hits. That’s what can throw people, it’s not the AP you use to fish for citadels in. With such short fuse times raking superstructure shots can still rip massive chunks off BB targets. Because it is less about instant citadel gratification people reject it even though I found that it is far more consistent in the middle ground of damage. 

It would be interesting to chart AP damage and various bits of info, for every Montana salvo that wrecks something how many salvos were missed, bounced, flubbed, overpens? For every Yamato lolpen smash, again how many non starter salvos? 

I get less Conqueror AP smash salvos, but I also find because of different aiming principles I get less total non starter salvos, a lot of steady 10-20k salvos, yes I still get flub salvos every ship does. And to top it all off I still have the HE. 

At the end of it I wouldn’t be surprised to see Conqueror AP pull similar damage numbers to other BB AP, it just does it differently.

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I heard people say that the AP alpha on British are okay, but the problem is the fuse is too short that you are not likely to get a citadel on BBs.

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4 hours ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why aren't people abusing what appears to be an excellent AP round from the big British guns? Yeah, the HE has a high fire chance, but citadels and full penetrations strip off health that can't be restored. Don't they also have a short arming time that reduces overpens? I don't get the HE appeal. Help me out here.

 

Easy. Most of the RN BB guns other than the 419 and 457 mm weapons have atrociously bad AP that is very unreliable. It trains people to fire lots and lots of HE. 

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Accuracy is more important on AP than HE. With HE, hitting anywhere's a solid fire chance and slapping high in the superstructure's still a meaty HE penetration rather than an overpenetration.

The downside to the shells is that short fuses may enable easier citadels on cruisers, but make it harder though far from impossible to citadel battleships.

The HE is very good, but gets better the more you fire it, alternating HE/AP means you're setting someone on fire only every 50s or so rather than 26s or so - one of which is way more taxing on the damage control than the other.

The RN BB T9-T10 aren't wonderously accurate, they're not terrible but not as good as Montana or Yamato.

 

In short, while a judicious mix of AP and HE is the way to go, HE is more reliable and if you want to shoot lots of AP the Montana's just better, or even 457 Conq is a bit more rewarding with 30mm overmatch.

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There's also a bit of meta to consider. Typically by tier X, people have at least some vague clue about mitigating AP damage through angling. HE however bypasses these efforts and while not doing a whole lot of damage, I've personally earned 15k salvos. Conq's high fire chance and it's somewhat shotgun-like dispersion also lends itself to setting multiple fires forcing an enemy to burn their DC sooner than expected. I personally sometimes fight the urge to use it when two fires are lit at the same time. There's also the idea that targets tend to appear and disappear quickly, especially with radar and US island-hugging, meaning it's easier to try for a DoT effect than focus on waiting for the right time to fire AP. And finally there's the fact that while DDs are currently an out-of-favor type, they are still key ships and a salvo of HE is likely going to do a lot more to a DD than a salvo of AP.

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Conqueror's AP is funny.  Tech Tree RN BBs have short arming fuses for their AP shells.  This means they can struggle to penetrate BB belts for citadels where other "normal" Battleships will get actual AP citadel hits.

 

I have found Conqueror has to settle more for big penetration AP salvos if using the shell type against BBs.  Don't go for belt, aim a bit higher or in the base superstructure area for big pens.

 

Against Cruisers, the AP is actually very dangerous because you'll get more pens and less overpens.

 

The average Conqueror player doesn't take advantage of AP at the proper times.  You should fear the the ones that actually have a clue in shell switching.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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7 hours ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

All of which gets repaired. No one cares about being set on fire. Smash them for 25k that they can't fix and suddenly they're changing tactics.

Regular HE pen damage is healed the same was as regular AP pen damage.

HE spam is more consistent than AP spam if your not constantly getting citadels. This is true for all BBs.

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