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legoboy0401

Is It Just Me, or are DDs easily countered by BBs(depending on the specific BB)?

Are DDs more easily countered by BBs than BBs are countered by DDs?  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. Are DDs overall generally easily countered by BBs?

  2. 2. Are DDs easily counter by BBs at low tiers?

  3. 3. Are DDs easily countered by BBs at mid-tiers?

  4. 4. Are DDs easily countered by BBs at high tiers?

  5. 5. Generally speaking, do you find it easy, on average, to hit with DD torps on BBs?

  6. 6. At low-tiers, do you find it easy, on average, to hit with DD torps on BBs?

  7. 7. At mid-tiers, do you find it easy, on average, to hit with DD torps on BBs?

  8. 8. At high-tiers, do you find it easy, on average, to hit with DD torps on BBs?


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Well, this has been bugging me for quite some time. You see, I mostly play BBs these days, followed by Cruisers and DDs(and a tiny bit of CVs), so I probably warrant being called a BBaby. But anyway, what's bugging me is that, increasingly, especially in the mid tiers(though this is most certainly not confined to the mid tiers) I find myself with my BBs quite often getting into brawls/close-quarters dogfights with DDs,(even with BBs with weak secondaries) and THEY keep losing. Why? It's not like I'm the second coming of Yuro or anything. I'm not that great at Yuro-beats. Admittedly, I'm decent at torpedo dodging in my BBs, but I'm not the best. Not by a long shot. In fact, I often encounter in my own DDs much better torpedo dodgers than I.

 

In addition, it's not just the long torpedo reload DDs that are losing, either. it's the faster reloading torp DDs, like Minekaze, that are losing too. I mean, I understand that Minekaze's torps are slow now, so that's obviously part of it, but it can't be everything. It's not like these DDs aren't usually predicting well, I mean, most have pretty spot-on predictions, and set-up predictions for any possible dodge attempts I could make. But somehow, no matter how good their predictions, in these kinds of situations, at max(ultra rare) I take 2, but usually 1 or most commonly of all, none.

 

At high-tiers, though, it's a different but equally strange story. I keep seeing DDs at Tier VII+ that can't seem for the life of them to defend their smoke screens, even when they can see me, from me in a rampaging(fast, slow, it doesn't seem matter) BB. I think I at least get why they are so terrible: they never seem to have much fire discipline, and thus they fire their torps much too hastily( I dodge most or all of them) and so, before you know it, I'm in their smoke screen and am able to work my magic on them before their torps ever reload.

 

But, that's not the only weird thing going on at high-tiers with DDs v BBs. All the time now, it doesn't really matter what I'm in(I see this in my Cruisers and my DDs as well)I easily dodge high-tier DD torps without doing much of anything. I maybe turn a few degrees to angle a little better or slow down just a little to prevent me from over-extending, and I am in the perfect position to either thread their torpedoes or thread a gap between their spreads. It's like they are all aiming directly at the indicator, and just firing everything straight at it. If that wasn't enough, I'm starting to see more and more torpedo volleys sent at enemy ships that are sailing away, and from DDs with relatively short range torpedoes, too.:Smile_facepalm:

 

At least I understand what these high-tier DDs are doing wrong(though I don't get why they are committing these noob errors), but I can't say I understand a lick why these fast-reloading torpedoes, mid-tier, DDs are succumbing so darn easily and fast to my BBs. I mean, by ALL ACCOUNTS, THEY SHOULD WIN THESE KINDS OF ENGAGEMENTS!(IT'S WHAT THEY ARE GOOD AT), BUT THEY TOTALLY AREN'T.

 

I'll say again: Why?

 

I really honestly don't get it. Perhaps you could fill out my poll and answer a few questions about BBs v DDs(and visa versa)? That would be much appreciated.

 

Has anyone else noticed this recently, or is it just me? Comments are appreciated, and I thank you in advance.

 

 

- Regards, Legoboy0401

Edited by legoboy0401
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I think a lot of The really good destroyer drivers are sick of getting their teeth knocked in by WG and have moved on I know I have

 And that's leaving a void of the average and inexperienced filling that role.

  I know a lot of the battleship mains think it's easy to throw a wall of  skill out there But it's a whole lot harder then they think and maybe should try it 

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i need "i dont play low/mid/high tier" option

while i play both DD and BB, i dont touch low tiers at all, and i rarely play mid tier

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I maintain my theory that DDs were initially balanced by inexperience. I think that early on, you could really hammer BBs that hadn't learned to dodge, or didn't have hydro or catapult aircraft. WG saw the numbers and concluded that DDs were fine. However, as BBs learned, WG didn't adjust DDs, leaving them ill-suited for their advertised role of assassin. Now, DDs have learned too, but they still don't punish mistakes the way that BBs, CVs, or even cruisers can.

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Mostly playing high tier DDs lately, I have to say I notice loads of people firing torpedoes totally out of their range in general. Gneisenaus/Sharnies/Tirpitz being very common to do, at like 12-13km away from an enemy.  I guess they like seeing the little triangles moving ? :etc_hide_turtle:

As for me shooting torps, it depends heavily on the situation and how good the red BB is most of the time.

Finally, if you want to talk about BBs dealing easily with DDs, a Kiev/Tashkent/Khaba with AFT zooming around with the Engine Boost upgrade is possibly the closest thing to BB Hell. Even with godly aim dispersion can still troll you and the latter 2 get a heal that repairs up to 50% of the damage taken :cap_rambo:

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6 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

I think a lot of The really good destroyer drivers are sick of getting their teeth knocked in by WG and have moved on I know I have

 And that's leaving a void of the average and inexperienced filling that role.

  I know a lot of the battleship mains think it's easy to throw a wall of  skill out there But it's a whole lot harder then they think and maybe should try it 

I suspect that might be true. But there are still Unicums in Kamikaze sisters and Gadjah Mada around, and they seem to be doing worse than usual as well.

 

As for the last sentence: what do you think I do? Hmm? I play DDs, too. I am fully aware of the difficulties in throwing so-called "walls of skill" out there. I'm just noticing now that not only does it seem to be harder than ever for DDs to counter BBs, it seems to be easier than ever for BBs to counter DDs.

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11 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

I suspect that might be true. But there are still Unicums in Kamikaze sisters and Gadjah Mada around, and they seem to be doing worse than usual as well.

 

As for the last sentence: what do you think I do? Hmm? I play DDs, too. I am fully aware of the difficulties in throwing so-called "walls of skill" out there. I'm just noticing now that not only does it seem to be harder than ever for DDs to counter BBs, it seems to be easier than ever for BBs to counter DDs.

Good dd players still shine. Bad dd players panic. If I am 1v1 in a dd vs BB I win. The problem with most dd players they don't take time to understand the dynamics of the game. Just yesterday we were in a real close battle and our Shima drifted to close and got detected...it happens.... the pro move is to get skinny and get undetected...what did he do? starts firing his guns at the 58k BB..... I asked him why?...he said he was detected....never dawned on him that it would take 14 minutes to kill that BB with his guns and had he just not shot, he would have been undetected before the BB could turn his guns.... now add in hydro and radar.. the basic dd player simply can't or wont spend the time to learn the dynamics of the game and causes his team to lose over and over.

 

DD play is hard, but fun.

Edited by APA_204

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Mostly playing high tier DDs lately, I have to say I notice loads of people firing torpedoes totally out of their range in general. Gneisenaus/Sharnies/Tirpitz being very common to do, at like 12-13km away from an enemy.  I guess they like seeing the little triangles moving ? :etc_hide_turtle:

As for me shooting torps, it depends heavily on the situation and how good the red BB is most of the time.

Finally, if you want to talk about BBs dealing easily with DDs, a Kiev/Tashkent/Khaba with AFT zooming around with the Engine Boost upgrade is possibly the closest thing to BB Hell. Even with godly aim dispersion can still troll you and the latter 2 get a heal that repairs up to 50% of the damage taken :cap_rambo:

Yeah, there's that. With that said, Khaba is no ordinary DD, and neither are Kiev and Tashkent, (though not to the same to degree) however.

 

Khaba does, however, have a vulnerability to CVs if her speed boost is on cooldown, as then she can't go into Tashkent's patented "Straight-Up Out-Running of CV Torpedoes Mode"

 

Also, Henri with IFHE eats Khaba for breakfast already, and with the coming MBRB consumable addition, wowza!

 

Henri be like:cat_paw::cap_haloween::etc_red_button: 

 

Khabas be like::fish_nerv::fish_panic::etc_swear::fish_boom:

 

Henri be like::cat_cool::cap_viking::cap_win:

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3 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

 

 

Also, Henri with IFHE eats Khaba for breakfast already, and with the coming MBRB consumable addition, wowza!

 

 

Henri with IFHE? is this a thing?

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1 minute ago, APA_204 said:

Good dd players still shine. Bad dd players panic. If I am 1v1 in a dd vs BB I win. The problem with most dd players they don't take time to understand the dynamics of the game. Just yesterday we were in a real close battle and our Shima drifted to close and got detected...it happens.... the pro move is to get skinny and get undetected...what did he do? starts firing his guns at the 58k BB..... I asked him why?...he said he was detected....never dawned on him that it would take 14 minutes to kill that BB with his guns and had he just not shot, he would have been undetected before the BB could turn his guns.... now add in hydro and radar.. the basic dd player simply can't or wont spend the time to learn the dynamics of the game and causes his team to lose over and over.

 

DD play is hard, but fun.

Eh, I don't know about that. I've seen a few Unicums here and there in their DDs when I am in my BB, and more often than not, the one going to Davey Jones' Locker is usually them, though I'm not sure why. I mean, I know a thing or two about torpedo evasion, but I don't get is why they have so much trouble hitting me.

 

I've literally had an enemy Asashio complain to me,(who was in a Tier VI BB) that I was VERY hard to hit(out of a full, well aimed torpedo salvo, with torpedo reload booster getting in the action, only 1 hit) when I was not really much paying attention to him, and mostly focusing on escaping/dodging fire from(and putting some return fire down range) some other, more visible enemies on the same side of the map.

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4 minutes ago, APA_204 said:

Henri with IFHE? is this a thing?

You can deck pen basically anything in the game. Henri has 40mm HE pen base, +30% from ifhe, 52mm pen. IFHE henri does a lot of damage to a lot of things.

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4 minutes ago, APA_204 said:

Henri with IFHE? is this a thing?

Jah. Flamu himself recommended it a while back, and a good portion of Henri's small fanbase use it for exactly that purpose.

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6 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

You can deck pen basically anything in the game. Henri has 40mm HE pen base, +30% from ifhe, 52mm pen. IFHE henri does a lot of damage to a lot of things.

Image result for very interesting
 

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30 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

I think that early on, you could really hammer BBs that hadn't learned to dodge, or didn't have hydro or catapult aircraft. WG saw the numbers and concluded that DDs were fine. However, as BBs learned, WG didn't adjust DDs, leaving them ill-suited for their advertised role of assassin.

Wow, have you got this backwards. When the game first came out, DDs were nerfed to death over the course of the first two years due to BB complaints, because BBs are the ships most players want to play and the noobs were getting waffle stomped when they didn't know how to play their BBs. Now there are fewer new players, and the experienced players know when to WASD, and in addition the game has added many new features that help players overcome DD stealth. So now DDs are much harder to play, while BBs remain the easiest type of ship to play and have much more going for them.

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6 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

Jah. Flamu himself recommended it a while back, and a good portion of Henri's small fanbase use it for exactly that purpose.

Image result for very interesting
 

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BB AP penetration damage. Radar spam meta. Extremely maneuvrerable, tanky BBs with a plethora of spotting tools to completely nullify your torpedo strikes. Getting focused and obliterated whenever you open fire in a DD.

DDs arent fun to play anymore and nobody really seems to care. There is very little reason to play a DD when anything else does your job better, and without instantly dying when caught in a radar.

Competitive? Have fun being radared all match by the enemy and getting zero damage. Damage doesnt mean a lot in CB but it's incredibly boring. Ranked is just radar spam at t10 and your advantages mean nothing. In randoms you have to hope your garbage teammates will pick up the slack and make use of your spotting.

BB torp belts and maneverability means you're hardly ever going to flat out delete one, save a rush around a corner where they can chip off half your HP or instantly kill you in one click.

Why is it that the one class with the best stealth, best maneuverability, second best vision control and zoning, and supposedly best tool for elimination of capital ships is getting slammed into the dirt by the very thing they are supposed to counter.

Make DDs better WG, stop catering to the low skilled garbage in battleships who whine about eating torps or how dds are too powerful because they cant see them and shoot them. Because right now, even as a DD main who has been playing DDs for comp and ranked, owning several t10 DDs and premium DDs, I feel like I'm being forced into playing boring as hell battleships to just get a chance at doing something all game instead of running and hiding and hoping the enemy forgets I exist so I can hit a torp.

JFC wg get it together.

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1 minute ago, The_Painted_Target said:

BB AP penetration damage. Radar spam meta. Extremely maneuvrerable, tanky BBs with a plethora of spotting tools to completely nullify your torpedo strikes. Getting focused and obliterated whenever you open fire in a DD.

DDs arent fun to play anymore and nobody really seems to care. There is very little reason to play a DD when anything else does your job better, and without instantly dying when caught in a radar.

Competitive? Have fun being radared all match by the enemy and getting zero damage. Damage doesnt mean a lot in CB but it's incredibly boring. Ranked is just radar spam at t10 and your advantages mean nothing. In randoms you have to hope your garbage teammates will pick up the slack and make use of your spotting.

BB torp belts and maneverability means you're hardly ever going to flat out delete one, save a rush around a corner where they can chip off half your HP or instantly kill you in one click.

Why is it that the one class with the best stealth, best maneuverability, second best vision control and zoning, and supposedly best tool for elimination of capital ships is getting slammed into the dirt by the very thing they are supposed to counter.

Make DDs better WG, stop catering to the low skilled garbage in battleships who whine about eating torps or how dds are too powerful because they cant see them and shoot them. Because right now, even as a DD main who has been playing DDs for comp and ranked, owning several t10 DDs and premium DDs, I feel like I'm being forced into playing boring as hell battleships to just get a chance at doing something all game instead of running and hiding and hoping the enemy forgets I exist so I can hit a torp.

JFC wg get it together.

Yeah, it's bad enough with those, but heaven forbid that some enemy BB has ACTUAL SKILL, and can DODGE AND EFFECTIVELY COUNTER DDs WITHOUT said tools, LET ALONE WITH THEM!

 

That is the very definition of why many players are mothballing their non-VMF DDs these days.

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47 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

DDs need to band together and start asking for direct buffs instead of indirect buffs through nerfs to other ships. It's the wierdest thing i notice on the forum. Like you guys dont ask for direct buffs, just nerfs to other ships.

I agree DDs are in a difficult situation, but you guys approach solutions in such a round about manner. 

I don't think the problem is that DDs are weak, it's just that battleships are so incredibly overcompensated for the bad players who complained and play them. I've launched torp salvos at a Kurfurst from ~4-5km and had them slow down and stop to dodge them. That is complete garbage since, if his secondaries dont obliterate me for free with zero effort from him, his guns will.

DDs are strong, the thing they counter has just been buffed so much that it doesnt matter how good DDs are when someone else is in an easy to play boat.

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51 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

I suspect that might be true. But there are still Unicums in Kamikaze sisters and Gadjah Mada around, and they seem to be doing worse than usual as well.

 

As for the last sentence: what do you think I do? Hmm? I play DDs, too. I am fully aware of the difficulties in throwing so-called "walls of skill" out there. I'm just noticing now that not only does it seem to be harder than ever for DDs to counter BBs, it seems to be easier than ever for BBs to counter DDs.

 I'm sorry I wasn't calling you out I was just saying in general 

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I remembered as corgi capt, playing my Fuso, I don't let the dd come close within 8km as minimum, as soon as I got detected and I don't see any red ship, I assumed that dd is already stalking me, torp already in water and shots from everyone already in the air.

I changed speed and change direction

I count 26 sec and change direction again with different speed again

I sent my scout plane up, hoping to get an early detection

if possible, I have my other allies with me and covering me

if possible I already used island to conceal me

and baiting for dd to rush me

I switch to HE and prepare!

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3 minutes ago, RenamedUser_10163724971 said:

I remembered as corgi capt, playing my Fuso, I don't let the dd come close within 8km as minimum, as soon as I got detected and I don't see any red ship, I assumed that dd is already stalking me, torp already in water and shots from everyone already in the air.

I changed speed and change direction

I count 26 sec and change direction again with different speed again

I sent my scout plane up, hoping to get an early detection

if possible, I have my other allies with me and covering me

if possible I already used island to conceal me

and baiting for dd to rush me

I switch to HE and prepare!

I once killed a Benson with my Arizona with HE. He was trying to YOLO me and another BB within 3 km of me(sadly, he succeeded), and he was on about roughly 3/5 of his health left, but I had switched to HE, and I hit him with 10 HE shells as soon as he came around the corner of an island nearby, but sadly it wasn't quite enough to finish him and he got his torps off, but my secondaries got him(I had(and still have) an AA build USN BB captain on my AZ, because I was retraining him to the next ship in the line) before his torps got us.

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