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Dev Blog - ST RN DD Balance Changes

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ST. Balance changes. British Destroyers.

For all researched British destroyers the wide spread of TT was replaced by a narrow one, which is similar to of British cruisers’ TT.

The firing angles of some turrets of British destroyers from Tier III to X has been increased. This allows destroyers to feel more comfortable in melee combat and in battles with ships of the same class. 

Wakeful – the ability of #3 turret to rotate 360 degrees has been removed.

Icarus – reload time of researched torpedoes has been reduced from 133 to 120 seconds.

Jervis – added the ability of #3 turret to rotate 360 degrees. The ability to rotate 360 for the 2nd TT has been removed.

Lightning – main battery reload time has been reduced from 5 to 4.5 seconds; the horizontal rotation speed has been increased to 20 degrees per second; the ability to rotate 360 degrees has been added for all turrets.

Jutland – the ability to rotate 360 degrees has been added for 1, 2 and 3 turrets; “Fire Control System, Modification 2” is now available for installation; the maximum range of basic hull has been reduced from 12,01 to 11,37 km and from 13,21 to 12,51 on upgradable hull.

Daring - for 1, 2 and 3 turrets added the ability to rotate 360 degrees, added the ability to install upgrades "Fire control system Modification 2", the maximum range has been reduced from 13.78 to 12.78 km.

Restricting the rotation of some turrets was made to bring logical behavior to the armament group on a ship and for synchronous rotation.

Reduction of range was implemented to make it less excessive and more efficient. When firing main battery guns, destroyers will be spotted at maximum firing range but at the same time, because of ballistics, firing at a target at the limit is inefficient.

The speed and acceleration settings for all researched British destroyers and Cossack has been improved. These settings are similar to British cruisers. Now destroyers gain their speed faster and lose it less when turning. “Engine Modification 2” is now unavailable for installation.

These changes are intended to improve British destroyers gameplay in melee combat and highlight their role of “defensive” and slow ships, with bigger smoke’s range and Hydroacoustic Search consumable.

Smoke generator’s settings have been changed for all researched British destroyers.

Emission time has been reduced from 15 to 10 seconds;
Duration of a smoke screen has been reduced to 40 seconds. It used to be up to 113 seconds depends on a level.
Cooldown has been reduced from 240 and 160 to 80 and 60 seconds for default and upgraded equipment respectively.
Number of charges has been increased from 2 and 3 to 5 and 6 for default and upgraded equipment respectively.
Updated equipment characteristics will make destroyers more mobile when it comes to tactics and be more efficient in their role of defensive ship. These changes also allow to leave a smoke screen in case of a danger without losing destroyers efficiency.

We often come across questions about British torpedoes and now we would like to answer to them. We don’t consider any more changes which can influence the whole tech tree besides those we have already announced here. British destroyers are mostly hybrid destroyers and have pretty good weapons with a high chance of setting fires. Moreover, in the current testing stage these ships have two options of torpedo firing: a narrow fan and a single fire. The single fire in a battle gives a nice opportunity to launch torpedoes in a line and increase the chance that all of them will reach an enemy. The single fire also allows to launch limited amount of torpedoes and save other ones for the right moment.

Please notice that all the info in Dev Blog is preliminary.

46D73556-9095-4BF8-8A33-9EB93D455DF2.jpeg

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Good QOL changes that were desperately needed. However it is quite disappointing that WG'ing is entrenched in their design of these DD's being defensive Destroyers. 

My biggest disappointment comes with the pre determined notion that the Daring will have no place in CW's which is a shame. 

I hoped that this line would of shaked things up with the meta, instead of it being the same old run of the mill Destroyer hunter defensive destroyer fleet support boat. 

 

 

*edit - Oh and by defensive I guess they mean "Sit behind an island shooting while the game plays out" 

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6 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

I hoped that this line would of shaked things up with the meta, instead of it being the same old run of the mill Destroyer hunter defensive destroyer fleet support boat. 

Nah, if WG did that, then the whiners would be quick to resume that tired old hew and cry of "torpedo soup."

Only the Japanese are allowed to have dedicated torpedo boats, and they aren't allowed to be "good" at it.

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1 hour ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

Nah, if WG did that, then the whiners would be quick to resume that tired old hew and cry of "torpedo soup."

Only the Japanese are allowed to have dedicated torpedo boats, and they aren't allowed to be "good" at it.

This is the most annoying thing about the IJN line of torpedo DDs.  They're dedicated torpedo boats, the only ones in the game, and yet they're not the best torpedo DDs in the game.  That's just plain ridiculous.  Arguably, other nations' DDs are better torpedo boats than the IJN's torpedo DDs, which is completely ridiculous.

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basically british cruisers with no citadel,i don't know,the RN DDs might be interesting.

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2 hours ago, Cobraclutch said:

Good QOL changes that were desperately needed. However it is quite disappointing that WG'ing is entrenched in their design of these DD's being defensive Destroyers. 

My biggest disappointment comes with the pre determined notion that the Daring will have no place in CW's which is a shame. 

I hoped that this line would of shaked things up with the meta, instead of it being the same old run of the mill Destroyer hunter defensive destroyer fleet support boat. 

 

 

*edit - Oh and by defensive I guess they mean "Sit behind an island shooting while the game plays out" 

I think DD could be replaced in many CB with a good Wooster these days anyway. The only reason you bring a DD is because they probably did too. "Spot the Zao" is a fun game, but yeah...

 

As far as the  "defensive" bit goes my understanding is that the role entails holding the cap so the other guys can't have it as a specialization.. until you get radiated anyway lol.

I love this game.

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2 hours ago, Cobraclutch said:

Good QOL changes that were desperately needed. However it is quite disappointing that WG'ing is entrenched in their design of these DD's being defensive Destroyers. 

My biggest disappointment comes with the pre determined notion that the Daring will have no place in CW's which is a shame. 

I hoped that this line would of shaked things up with the meta, instead of it being the same old run of the mill Destroyer hunter defensive destroyer fleet support boat. 

*edit - Oh and by defensive I guess they mean "Sit behind an island shooting while the game plays out" 

Cobra, I think that part of the "problem" is that the CB's meta for DDs is very much about maximum stealth.  In all the clan battles I've been in (and it's been a lot this season), I would say that the most popular DDs are the Gearing and Yueyang.  And I'd say that it's because they have 3 very specific things going for them.  

  1. They both have excellent concealment.
  2. They both have very good guns.
  3. They both have torpedoes that outrange all radar.

You will see a smattering of Shimakazes, Z-52s, and Grozovois.  But compared to the Gearing and Yueyang, they're just not that common.  Those 3 all lack one or two of the above 3 items.  The Shimmy's normal 12km torps lack range and their guns don't match up to the Gearing and YY.  And the Z52 and Groz don't have sub-6km concealment and their torps lack range, having only 10.5km and 10km of range respectively.  This isn't to say that good players can't make any of these three DDs work.  It's just that the great majority of DDs I've seen in CBs are Gearings and YYs, IMO because they have all 3 of these items working for them.  

There doesn't seem to be much room in the current CBs meta for gunboat DDs.  You rarely see Khabs, for example. Probably because it just can't scout like a stealthy DDs.  And if you can't be a stealth scout, it seems like the Khab lacks the raw firepower of a proper cruiser. 

And I'm not sure that it'll be all that different for the Haragumo or the Daring.  Those 2 both have the very good guns.  But I expect that their torps outrange radar.  Neither has much of any speed.  The Daring has, IIRC, good (i.e. sub 6km) concealment, though I'm not sure that the Haragumo does.  Neither of these 2 upcoming tier 10 DDs seems to have the right mix of abilities to prosper in the current CB's DD meta.  But we'll have to see how things shake out.  

I will say though that I'm with you in wishing that all tier 10 DDs were able to be seen as competitive CBs DDs.  But it currently doesn't like they will be.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

 basically british cruisers with no citadel, i don't know, the RN DDs might be interesting.

They might be interesting, but the Daring doesn't seem like it'll be a good clan battles DD, given the current CBs DD meta.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

They might be interesting, but the Daring doesn't seem like it'll be a good clan battles DD, given the current CBs DD meta.

i'm not surprised daring don't fit the elitist criteria of clan battles,she might fit  at ranked and randoms.

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1 minute ago, Cruxdei said:

i'm not surprised daring don't fit the elitist criteria of clan battles, she might fit  at ranked and randoms.

I don't think that it's fair to say "elitist" criteria regarding CBs.  I don't consider myself an elitist.  Seeing the Gearing and Yueyang as the "best" CBs DDs isn't elitist.  It's strictly observational and understanding why they're the ones chosen.  CBs aren't randoms.  I agree 100% that you can make any tier 10 DD work in a tier 10 random battle, because there's room for many different DD play styles.  But in CBs, DDs are expected to fill a very narrow, well defined role.  And if the abilities of a tier 10 DD can't fulfill that well defined role, then they won't be used or the team leader will ask you to bring a different DD or pick a player who can.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

 But in CBs, DDs are expected to fill a very narrow, well defined role.  And if the abilities of a tier 10 DD can't fulfill that well defined role, then they won't be used or the team leader will ask you to bring a different DD or pick a player who can.  

 

that's a good definition of "elitist",i know the word itself is not well liked,but any enviroment where only specific weapons are "allowed'(the team leader kindly "ask" you to choose a different DD) to play while other DDs playstyle are frowned upon fits the definition or TLDR,only the few(few dd ships) can play,anyone can play clan battles,but not all ships can play clan battles.

i'm using the word "elitist" here for the ships,not the restriction to the average player.

Edited by Cruxdei

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So they changed:

guns, torps, smoke, maneuvering 

Didnt change 

concealment, AA, HP

 

Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence when they are this far along and still making major changes to most areas of the ship design.

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7 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

that's a good definition of "elitist",i know the word itself is not well liked,but any enviroment where only specific weapons are "allowed'(the team leader kindly "ask" you to choose a different DD) to play while other DDs playstyle are frowned upon fits the definition or TLDR,only the few(few dd ships) can play,anyone can play clan battles, but not all ships can play clan battles.

i'm using the word "elitist" here for the ships,not the restriction to the average player.

I don't think that it's a good definition of elitism at all.  Clan Battles aren't randoms.  You can't just  bring whatever you want.  They are competitive.  And team leaders want players to bring ships that fit the requirements of their strategies.   That's not elitism.  That's following orders.  That's playing to win.  From my own experience, people have been mostly able to bring what they want … mostly.  We don't really like to see someone ready up a Khab.  And we fully expect to have at least 2  radar cruisers in the lineup before hitting the battle button.  Henri's are not a popular choice because they're a little too fragile and don't bring enough to the table compared to other tier 10 non-radar cruisers.  Frankly, the Hindy and Zao seem to be much more preferred to the Henri when it comes to non-radar cruisers. 

Mind you, I'm not talking about clans that play CBs but aren't seriously competitive.  I'm talking about clans that are making a fairly serious effort to advance in CBs, and reach Typhoon league or higher.  These are not necessarily unicums clans.  Some aren't at that level, but are still quite capable and competitive.  (And that probably describes the clan I'm in.)

 

Back to DDs.  If your DD doesn't have the tools to do the job that's expected of you, it doesn't seem at all elitist to me to not want to see that DD being played in CBs.  Would you want a big, slow first baseman to play Centerfield on a baseball team in the playoffs?  Would you want an offensive lineman who happens to be able to catch the ball to be a wide receiver on an NFL playoff team?  I'd think not.  You want the players with the appropriate tools for the job that's required of them.  For CBs destroyers, the tools for the job are good concealment, good guns (for counter DD work), and torpedoes that out-range radar.  

 

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3 hours ago, Cobraclutch said:

Good QOL changes that were desperately needed. However it is quite disappointing that WG'ing is entrenched in their design of these DD's being defensive Destroyers. 

My biggest disappointment comes with the pre determined notion that the Daring will have no place in CW's which is a shame. 

I hoped that this line would of shaked things up with the meta, instead of it being the same old run of the mill Destroyer hunter defensive destroyer fleet support boat. 

 

 

*edit - Oh and by defensive I guess they mean "Sit behind an island shooting while the game plays out" 

I see what they wanted: cautious destroyers who played conservative. You wont see them rushing caps, you wont see them doing silly things...these destroyers are hunter killers who will wolf pack with cruisers. 

A British DD is the best thing to survive the radar heavy meta. 

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

I don't think that it's a good definition of elitism at all.  Clan Battles aren't randoms.  You can't just  bring whatever you want.  They are competitive.  And team leaders want players to bring ships that fit the requirements of their strategies.   That's not elitism.  That's following orders.  That's playing to win.  From my own experience, people have been mostly able to bring what they want … mostly.  We don't really like to see someone ready up a Khab.  And we fully expect to have at least 2  radar cruisers in the lineup before hitting the battle button.  Henri's are not a popular choice because they're a little too fragile and don't bring enough to the table compared to other tier 10 non-radar cruisers.  Frankly, the Hindy and Zao seem to be much more preferred to the Henri when it comes to non-radar cruisers. 

Mind you, I'm not talking about clans that play CBs but aren't seriously competitive.  I'm talking about clans that are making a fairly serious effort to advance in CBs, and reach Typhoon league or higher.  These are not necessarily unicums clans.  Some aren't at that level, but are still quite capable and competitive.  (And that probably describes the clan I'm in.)

 

Back to DDs.  If your DD doesn't have the tools to do the job that's expected of you, it doesn't seem at all elitist to me to not want to see that DD being played in CBs.  Would you want a big, slow first baseman to play Centerfield on a baseball team in the playoffs?  Would you want an offensive lineman who happens to be able to catch the ball to be a wide receiver on an NFL playoff team?  I'd think not.  You want the players with the appropriate tools for the job that's required of them.  For CBs destroyers, the tools for the job are good concealment, good guns (for counter DD work), and torpedoes that out-range radar.  

 

maybe i should have used a better word,but maybe the problem might  be the static meta,most of the time it's the same ships,hindy and zao are CB top choices for a long time.

of course,why  fix something that is not broken might be the answer to my question,but in the end,the lack of interest to "change" the meta by WG and the playerbase creates a situation where there is no room to "adapt",that  funny word "skilled" people use all the time.

but that's another story for another thread perhaps,i don't know if the playerbase would be happy with WG changing some rules of CB just to let clan members test other ships for a new "meta".

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

This is the most annoying thing about the IJN line of torpedo DDs.  They're dedicated torpedo boats, the only ones in the game, and yet they're not the best torpedo DDs in the game.  That's just plain ridiculous.  Arguably, other nations' DDs are better torpedo boats than the IJN's torpedo DDs, which is completely ridiculous.

adding to the idiocy of it all, they add a gunboat line which is potentially OP guns and still has almost the same torpedo ability as the shimakaze (torp reload boost = 12 torps vs shima's 15..using the SAME torp).

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7 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

adding to the idiocy of it all, they add a gunboat line which is potentially OP guns and still has almost the same torpedo ability as the shimakaze (torp reload boost = 12 torps vs shima's 15..using the SAME torp).

Well, perhaps they should consider removing one of the tubes from that single launcher.

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14 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

 maybe i should have used a better word, but maybe the problem might  be the static meta, most of the time it's the same ships, hindy and zao are CB top choices for a long time.

of course, why  fix something that is not broken might be the answer to my question, but in the end, the lack of interest to "change" the meta by WG and the player base creates a situation where there is no room to "adapt", that  funny word "skilled" people use all the time.

but that's another story for another thread perhaps, i don't know if the player base would be happy with WG changing some rules of CB just to let clan members test other ships for a new "meta".

Side note: Please hit the space bar after commas.  Please.  And capitalization goes a long way to making a post more readable.

 

There's no need to change the CB rules to try different ships.  The thing to remember is that lots of players learn what the better ships are for the CBs meta and choose to play those ships.  Furthermore, those same players and other players learn what the better ships are and may choose to grind out those ships rather than the ones that are less preferable.  People are voting with their feet, so to say.  There are good reasons why you don't see certain ships in CBs.  And if a clan leader/caller decides that he doesn't want certain ships on a team, there are probably good reasons for that decision.  And in the end, you have to remember that clan battles are not randoms where you can experiment to your heart's content.  Better teams/clans want to win.  There might be a little room to experiment, but in the end it's more  about winning than experimenting.  Experiment in randoms.  Play to win in CBs.

 

As for looking for more variety, that could happen by possibly not sticking with tier 10 every single clan battles season.  It might be nice to change it up next season and see a tier 8 CBs season, for example.  I will say though that the tier I dread for CBs (or Ranked) is tier 9.  Not because there's inherently anything wrong with the tier, but because I just am not in the habit of keeping tier 9 ships.  I tend to sell most of them when I get the tier 10.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Side note: Please hit the space bar after commas.  Please.  And capitalization goes a long way to making a post more readable.

 

There's no need to change the CB rules to try different ships.  The thing to remember is that lots of players learn what the better ships are for the CBs meta and choose to play those ships.  Furthermore, those same players and other players learn what the better ships are and may choose to grind out those ships rather than the ones that are less preferable.  People are voting with their feet, so to say.  There are good reasons why you don't see certain ships in CBs.  And if a clan leader/caller decides that he doesn't want certain ships on a team, there are probably good reasons for that decision.  And in the end, you have to remember that clan battles are not randoms where you can experiment to your heart's content.  Better teams/clans want to win.  There might be a little room to experiment, but in the end it's more  about winning than experimenting.  Experiment in randoms.  Play to win in CBs.

 

As for looking for more variety, that could happen by possibly not sticking with tier 10 every single clan battles season.  It might be nice to change it up next season and see a tier 8 CBs season, for example.  I will say though that the tier I dread for CBs (or Ranked) is tier 9.  Not because there's inherently anything wrong with the tier, but because I just am not in the habit of keeping tier 9 ships.  I tend to sell most of them when I get the tier 10.

 

 

I type really fast, it's a bad habit.

Players learn what the better ships are for the CBs meta and that's it,it will remain a CB with zaos and hindies for years. a team mode like CB have gameplay and tactics that we hardly, if ever, see in randoms. this is my opinion but the way you wrote it, it seems the Clans are afraid of  variety, of a new meta, because it's new, it's not tested.

What kind of meta would CB have if zaos and hindies were not allowed? new tier 10 ships would take their place, what happens if gearing and other top choices for DDs in CBs are not allowed?suddenly the new meta will maybe "force" the players to adapt,experiment new ways to play.

OF COURSE, not all ships would pair up well with other ships, khab for example, can't exactly scout with her big detection range, even if the meta changes. but we still have other DDs to play.

Maybe it's soon to think about a new meta because we still have nations that lack proper lines like british DDs coming, italian cruisers and DDs, french DDs and maybe more. but i see no problem with a new meta,forced or not.

yes maybe changing the tiers for CB might help it,but i doubt WG would do that, since in theory, tier 10's are the end game, clan battles are "end game" too.

 

Edited by Cruxdei

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On 8/15/2018 at 6:48 PM, Crucis said:

  If your DD doesn't have the tools to do the job that's expected of you, it doesn't seem at all elitist to me to not want to see that DD being played in CBs. 

Yes, this. It's meritocracy - the ships that can meet the meta requirements get the job.

No doubt we will almost certainly see a surge of Darings in the next round of Clan Battles, simply because they're new, and enthusiastic captains will want to try them out in the school of hard knocks.

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On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:13 PM, Cruxdei said:

I type really fast, it's a bad habit.

Players learn what the better ships are for the CBs meta and that's it,it will remain a CB with zaos and hindies for years. a team mode like CB have gameplay and tactics that we hardly, if ever, see in randoms. this is my opinion but the way you wrote it, it seems the Clans are afraid of  variety, of a new meta, because it's new, it's not tested.

What kind of meta would CB have if zaos and hindies were not allowed? new tier 10 ships would take their place, what happens if gearing and other top choices for DDs in CBs are not allowed?suddenly the new meta will maybe "force" the players to adapt,experiment new ways to play.

OF COURSE, not all ships would pair up well with other ships, khab for example, can't exactly scout with her big detection range, even if the meta changes. but we still have other DDs to play.

Maybe it's soon to think about a new meta because we still have nations that lack proper lines like british DDs coming, italian cruisers and DDs, french DDs and maybe more. but i see no problem with a new meta,forced or not.

yes maybe changing the tiers for CB might help it,but i doubt WG would do that, since in theory, tier 10's are the end game, clan battles are "end game" too.

 

1. I do have a problem with forcing things to be different.  

2. The Khab really isn't a good CBs DD because it can't even come close to filling a CBs DD role.  The Khab may be typed as a DD, but it currently plays like a CL.

3. As for the other lines, only time will tell how they'll fit into CBs.  But frankly, they can't fit into the existing DD meta for CBs, I doubt that we'll see  many of them in CBs.  As for the Italian cruisers, we'll just have to see what they look like.  CBs cruisers aren't all Hindy's and Zaos.  There are also the radar cruisers, DM's and Moskvas. 

4. Changing tiers?  WG has allowed for CWs to occur at tiers lower than tier 10 in WoT.  So there's precedent for using a tier less than tier 10.

 

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45 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yes, this. It's meritocracy - the ships that can meet the meta requirements get the job.

No doubt we will almost certainly see a surge of Darings in the next round of Clan Battles, simply because they're new, and enthusiastic captains will want to try them out in the school of hard knocks.

I don't know if there'll be a "surge" of Darings.  There will be some.  But I think that their only having a single torp launcher will eventually reduce her value as a CBs DD in the eyes of the players, otherwise known as that school of hard knocks.  In fact, there's probably a decent comparison for tier 8 ranked, the Kidd.  The Kidd is an excellent gunboat at tier 8, but lacks torpedo firepower.  As such, my experience in tier 8 ranked has been that her lack of torpedo firepower makes her a less than top notch tier 8 ranked DD, because after you've eliminated the other team's DDs, a DD that lacks a full torpedo capability will find itself in a difficult situation.  On the flip side, the Akizuki, while also having only 1 launcher, happens to have the torp reload booster, which  gives the Aki the ability to function as if she had 2 launchers rather than the 1 she really has.  And as such, the Akizuki can be a  very effective tier 8 ranked DD even after all enemy DDs have been deleted.

Now, it is possible that people will be able to find a way to make DDs like the Daring and Harugomo effective in CBs.  I think that we'll just have to wait and see.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Crucis said:

 

 

 

I think we can both agree that unless something changes regarding the YY's power, the only change in DD meta next season will be the remaining Gearing captains who haven't grinded out YY who will finally get her. 

 

And then it will be YY for miles outside of the odd team that doesnt have one or B team derp teams. 

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5 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

I think we can both agree that unless something changes regarding the YY's power, the only change in DD meta next season will be the remaining Gearing captains who haven't grinded out YY who will finally get her. 

 

And then it will be YY for miles outside of the odd team that doesnt have one or B team derp teams. 

Not everyone has the YY or will.  And the Gearing does have the upside that her torps can hit DDs, which the YY's DWT's can't.  OTOH, the YY's DWTs are harder for enemy heavies to detect.  All in all, they're fairly similar.  Sort of like the difference between milk chocolate and dark chocolate.

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5 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

I think we can both agree that unless something changes regarding the YY's power, the only change in DD meta next season will be the remaining Gearing captains who haven't grinded out YY who will finally get her. 

 

And then it will be YY for miles outside of the odd team that doesnt have one or B team derp teams. 

On Gadjah ATM, will skip HY, grind CM, then YY. If you are a DD captain, you seem to require a YY now. Gearing is slowly being replaced, and there are some comps that don't even use a DD now but run a Wooster instead. They can control a cap just as well in the right spots, and offer a lot of utility. 

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