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IgorSV94

Instead of complaining of your own teammates, make a difference yourself.

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Lately (maybe I just started paying attention now) I've been seeing a lot of posts of people complaining how dumb their Teammates are.

What if I told you you can make a big impact in a game? Sure, there will be many games you will lose, don't matter how great of a player you are, this is, after all, a team game. There will be many frustrating teammates. But despite all of that, you can still make a huge difference. Why do you think the top-tier clans have usually a certain requirement for win rate for you to join them? Because a good player can effectively change the course of a game. Different types of ships have more effect than others. (e.g a good CV player can have consistent win rate of 70%+! However even them will lose some games). Being good is not about how many ships you killed or about how much damage you inflicted. It's about a multitude of things that involve damage dealt and ships killed but also when it is time to go dark, to go for a cap and, sometimes, when not to shoot. There are many players better than me, I'm sure they can go more in-depth in this, but of one thing I am sure. YOU can make a difference. Instead of making angry forums posts about MM or how your teammates made 1789 mistakes take some time after each battle to analyze what you could've done better. Just 1 minute it is enough, and you will start seeing things much more clearer.

Ps: 90% of the time it is NOT worth to repair a single fire on your ship!

EDIT: Grammar

Edited by IgorSV94
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I agree with most of what you say, but there are moments where teammates do things contrary not  just to optimal gameplay but common sense and logic. This is enough to make most snap.

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12 minutes ago, IgorSV94 said:

Lately (maybe I just started paying attention now) I've been seeing a lot of posts of people complaining how dumb their Teammates are.

What if I told you you can make a big impact in a game? Sure, there will be many games you will lose, don't matter how great of a player you are, this is, after all, a team game. There will be many frustrating teammates. But despite all of that, you can still make a huge difference. Why do you think the top-tier clans have usually a certain requirement for win rate for you to join them? Because a good player can effectively change the course of a game. Different types of ships have more effect than others. (e.g a good CV player can have consistent win rate of 70%+! However even them will lose some games). Being good is not about how many ships you killed or about how much damage you inflicted. It's about a multitude of things that involve damage dealt and ships killed but also when it is time to go dark, to go for a cap and, sometimes, when not to shoot. There are many players better than me, I'm sure they can go more in-depth in this, but of one thing I am sure. YOU can make a difference. Instead of making angry forums posts about MM or how your teammates made 1789 mistakes take some time after each battle to analyze what you could've done better. Just 1 minute it is enough, and you will start seeing things much more clearer.

Ps: 90% of the time it is NOT worth to repair a single fire on your ship!

EDIT: Grammar

It's disgusting how many tier 10 players repair one for on their Bbs.  It's like they had an automatic fire extinguisher from wot.  These are the same guys that proceed to eat a torp, flood down and die from full hp, and get on the forums and complain how fires and flooding are too powerful.  

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While the sentiment is nice the reality is that, aside from everyone making bad plays from time to time, outright bad players can't change.  They lack the ability to recognize that they in fact don't know what they're doing despite thinking otherwise.

 

It's well documented and I'd love to see someone lose their sanity to produce a study on it in this game.  I've never seen more clear cut examples of it anywhere else.

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The OP gets an upvote from me for posting reasonable and thoughtful comments about team play in this game.  His point is that being a skilled player does not give anyone a free ticket to be an abusive or selfish player.  In short, worry about your own play and quit blaming everyone else for losses.  What a mature concept!  

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4 minutes ago, Business6 said:

While the sentiment is nice the reality is that, aside from everyone making bad plays from time to time, outright bad players can't change.  They lack the ability to recognize that they in fact don't know what they're doing despite thinking otherwise.

 

It's well documented and I'd love to see someone lose their sanity to produce a study on it in this game.  I've never seen more clear cut examples of it anywhere else.

Perhaps an anthropological paper can be written on wows.  Emphasis on personal accountability, and perception. 

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24 minutes ago, IgorSV94 said:

Ps: 90% of the time it is NOT worth to repair a single fire on your battleship!

FTFY.

On other classes, the percentage goes way down.

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I don't get it.

The WR WTR and the Stats that mean something {What ever they are} are directly linked to the "Bad" players without them you would all suck. 

Every Stat has a low end and a high end. Those of you that have a 50% would end up on the bottom of the Charts, if the System were adjusted with the less than 50% players removed.

I will admit there are some damn good players out there. I am not one of them.

But give it a rest stop shaming those who don't measure up to "your" stats, only you care.

The "Bad" Players certainly don't.

Count me in the Bad column. 

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46 minutes ago, IgorSV94 said:

Lately (maybe I just started paying attention now) I've been seeing a lot of posts of people complaining how dumb their Teammates are.

What if I told you you can make a big impact in a game? Sure, there will be many games you will lose, don't matter how great of a player you are, this is, after all, a team game. There will be many frustrating teammates. But despite all of that, you can still make a huge difference. Why do you think the top-tier clans have usually a certain requirement for win rate for you to join them? Because a good player can effectively change the course of a game. Different types of ships have more effect than others. (e.g a good CV player can have consistent win rate of 70%+! However even them will lose some games). Being good is not about how many ships you killed or about how much damage you inflicted. It's about a multitude of things that involve damage dealt and ships killed but also when it is time to go dark, to go for a cap and, sometimes, when not to shoot. There are many players better than me, I'm sure they can go more in-depth in this, but of one thing I am sure. YOU can make a difference. Instead of making angry forums posts about MM or how your teammates made 1789 mistakes take some time after each battle to analyze what you could've done better. Just 1 minute it is enough, and you will start seeing things much more clearer.

Ps: 90% of the time it is NOT worth to repair a single fire on your ship!

EDIT: Grammar

The problem is there's many instances where no matter how well you do yourself, if your teammates sit in the corner eating glue there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Those games where all your dds die early because they played like radar and the enemy team didn't exist, you watch multiple cruisers sail broadside and get deleted, see multiple battleships sit 20 km from the action sniping when they wouldn't be able to reliably hit targets 8km from them.  Speaking from the entirety of my clan where we all have had many 200k + damage, 5 kill games that go unrewarded in a loss because teammates play poorly and throw the game.  These instances of salt (IMO) are due to the community being a cocktail of players that don't care about winning or playing well, players being unable to play well because they don't understand the game, hyper competitive guys that aren't good at the time, and hyper competitive guys that are good all being forced to play in the same games.  This is inevitably going to lead to salt, whether spoken in game or not.  I don't have a problem with people having their own goals by playing, but people have to understand that their fun will likely come at the expense of someone else's in this system of everyone playing in one game mode.  The only outlet for the competitive guys is having to be in a clan and play clan wars at specific hours, and that frankly isn't enough.  Imagine if CSGO only had a casual mode, and all the competitive guys had to play there.

Edited by RedRushian
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5 minutes ago, _Lord_Scott_ said:

I don't get it.

The WR WTR and the Stats that mean something {What ever they are} are directly linked to the "Bad" players without them you would all suck. 

Every Stat has a low end and a high end. Those of you that have a 50% would end up on the bottom of the Charts, if the System were adjusted with the less than 50% players removed.

I will admit there are some damn good players out there. I am not one of them.

But give it a rest stop shaming those who don't measure up to "your" stats, only you care.

The "Bad" Players certainly don't.

Count me in the Bad column. 

I didnt meant to "shame" anyone, sorry if it came across like that.

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A CV that can support a team with only enemy intel can only do so much if the team does not use that info to their advantage. Will I blame the team? Yes because they have the best info they got but won't use it. So it can't be helped. The more the team does not use my info, the harder I will play because my team is too scared to take point. So my Ryujo will take point for them while they hide behind islands.

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1 hour ago, IgorSV94 said:

Lately (maybe I just started paying attention now) I've been seeing a lot of posts of people complaining how dumb their Teammates are.

What if I told you you can make a big impact in a game? Sure, there will be many games you will lose, don't matter how great of a player you are, this is, after all, a team game. There will be many frustrating teammates. But despite all of that, you can still make a huge difference. Why do you think the top-tier clans have usually a certain requirement for win rate for you to join them? Because a good player can effectively change the course of a game. Different types of ships have more effect than others. (e.g a good CV player can have consistent win rate of 70%+! However even them will lose some games). Being good is not about how many ships you killed or about how much damage you inflicted. It's about a multitude of things that involve damage dealt and ships killed but also when it is time to go dark, to go for a cap and, sometimes, when not to shoot. There are many players better than me, I'm sure they can go more in-depth in this, but of one thing I am sure. YOU can make a difference. Instead of making angry forums posts about MM or how your teammates made 1789 mistakes take some time after each battle to analyze what you could've done better. Just 1 minute it is enough, and you will start seeing things much more clearer.

Ps: 90% of the time it is NOT worth to repair a single fire on your ship!

EDIT: Grammar

Had a match this morning in my Chung Mu.  127k damage, three kills, one solo cap.  10 of the 12 players melted in 10 minutes and yet I was accused of not playing to win but playing selfishly.

The reality is that losers become chronic losers the more they master the art of rationalization.  They will always find a way to discount their poor performance and assign cause of negative outcomes on anyone or anything but themselves.

A person either has the capacity to be objective and take personal responsibility or they don't.  And how the mental flow chart is processed in the game is exactly how they think outside the game because the environment doesn't have any impact whatsoever on a person's deductive reasoning skills.  No different than IQ.  A person's IQ doesn't change based on the activity they are engaged in.  So you can imagine just how much they sabotage their lives in careers and relationships by being so self-destructive in their thinking.

If a player doesn't care about winning or even just carrying their weight, that's fine.  But they waive their right and credibility to blame others.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  If a player cares enough to voice their opinion on who is to blame for a loss, then they are lying about claiming "it's just a game" or they're just playing for "fun."

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1 hour ago, _Lord_Scott_ said:

I don't get it.

The WR WTR and the Stats that mean something {What ever they are} are directly linked to the "Bad" players without them you would all suck. 

Every Stat has a low end and a high end. Those of you that have a 50% would end up on the bottom of the Charts, if the System were adjusted with the less than 50% players removed.

I will admit there are some damn good players out there. I am not one of them.

But give it a rest stop shaming those who don't measure up to "your" stats, only you care.

The "Bad" Players certainly don't.

Count me in the Bad column. 

While I agree there's far too much emphasis on stats in general without any stats bad players would still be bad because it isn't about stats but decision making.  I don't see how you could gain any sense of pride by aligning yourself with players that don't care about contributing or improving their play.

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3 minutes ago, Business6 said:

While I agree there's far too much emphasis on stats in general without any stats bad players would still be bad because it isn't about stats but decision making.  I don't see how you could gain any sense of pride by aligning yourself with players that don't care about contributing or improving their play.

I stand with those who don't Care About Stats.

If it is only the "Bad" players that are called out by Stats.

Decisions are made by some of the greatest minds and prove to be "Bad" as an after thought.

Making Decisions at the time at large is a point of view.

Just because your experience tells you a different answer even you had to learn at some point .

I see it here every day in this forum the I am better than so in so my stats are Blah Blah Blah.

I see it as "We" are all players enjoying our piece of the game.

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2 minutes ago, _Lord_Scott_ said:

I stand with those who don't Care About Stats.

If it is only the "Bad" players that are called out by Stats.

Decisions are made by some of the greatest minds and prove to be "Bad" as an after thought.

Making Decisions at the time at large is a point of view.

Just because your experience tells you a different answer even you had to learn at some point .

I see it here every day in this forum the I am better than so in so my stats are Blah Blah Blah.

I see it as "We" are all players enjoying our piece of the game.

But people aren't always learning, i see the same people doing the same thing to get themselves killed literally immediately after it got them killed last match.   You see players peak out at a certain level of performance in their stats which shows they've stopped trying to progress as a player.  Unless you are saying stats like win rate are misleading (and i don't know how you would accomplish that in a rational argument) your misguided view is exactly the reason why "better" players are annoyed at "worse" players.  If you look at two players and one has a 44% win rate over 4000 solo games and the other has 56% with comparable ship selection, that's not something you can shrug at and claim perspective.  It's not a coincidence all the top clans in clan battles are full of people with high average damage outputs and win rates.  It's a completely obtuse answer in response to information.  Sure you look at the information differently if someone is using divs to buoy their win rate and are playing a lot of overpowered ships. It's happened to me many times that some random guy tells me I'm an idiot and costing the team games, but when i look at the stats the person criticizing has a sub-50% wr and puts less damage out that his ship has health on average on every boat.  A person like that has lost all ability to view themselves objectively.  When being angry at people for pulling stats into arguments, it's better to look at them first to see if they even know what they're talking about.  There are plenty of morons out there that are no good at the game themselves that like to throw accusations out there to make themselves feel better.

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2 hours ago, RedRushian said:

The problem is there's many instances where no matter how well you do yourself, if your teammates sit in the corner eating glue there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.  Those games where all your dds die early because they played like radar and the enemy team didn't exist, you watch multiple cruisers sail broadside and get deleted, see multiple battleships sit 20 km from the action sniping when they wouldn't be able to reliably hit targets 8km from them.  Speaking from the entirety of my clan where we all have had many 200k + damage, 5 kill games that go unrewarded in a loss because teammates play poorly and throw the game.  These instances of salt (IMO) are due to the community being a cocktail of players that don't care about winning or playing well, players being unable to play well because they don't understand the game, hyper competitive guys that aren't good at the time, and hyper competitive guys that are good all being forced to play in the same games.  This is inevitably going to lead to salt, whether spoken in game or not.  I don't have a problem with people having their own goals by playing, but people have to understand that their fun will likely come at the expense of someone else's in this system of everyone playing in one game mode.  The only outlet for the competitive guys is having to be in a clan and play clan wars at specific hours, and that frankly isn't enough.  Imagine if CSGO only had a casual mode, and all the competitive guys had to play there.

And, this is the F2P paradox:  how do you do two completely different things at the same time.....?  This is an arcade F2P FPS....teams are optional.  They aren't required for anything but clan wars.    Everything else is a voluntary activity.

You stats aren't team oriented.  What "you" do is "what you earn..."  For good or ill.   The Quasi-team mantra is where the "friction" starts to get a bit hot.  You are 100% dependent on the other eleven (11) players...  So, as the OP's title says you must make a difference and that, is where the paradox gets really screwy.  The better players get bored and play down and the newer and less experienced players have "no choice" but to grind up......or, stay at tiers 1-4.  At Tier 5 we are seeing greater numbers of "very experienced" players AND Division of elite players playing down...........because the T10 matches have stopped being fun, competitive or even logical with the Radar & HE spam meta's.    "It's too tough to make money" one very experienced CPT said the other day....  They are frustrated with the radar meta screwing up upper level play.....

So, here we are, in a mature game maturation cycle and WG used the Cruiser split to introduce a revenue generating exploit (radar) to boost sales and, if you know anything about mature small niche markets, they are looking for some "Blue Ocean" space to expand their "value proposition" into............in our case, the 1950's and early 1960's....  There is no where else to go or do in the WW1 / WW2 eras.....  usually, when this happens the population fragments and the game becomes an "us" versus "them" player base because the good players always "want more" and can't find it and the lesser players just get tired of the grind and constant lower level farming and leave.......  There are several games in this cycle right now and the one I am most familiar with is MWO.......they are just about done.  Exact same game cycle....

So, do you best and once there are no more average players left, your best just doesn't seem fun anymore.....  I pray WG reads gaming history and doesn't repeat it.

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Break my back for the undeserving?  No thanks.  I'll help those who help themselves; I won't waste time on leeches.

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4 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

And, this is the F2P paradox:  how do you do two completely different things at the same time.....?  This is an arcade F2P FPS....teams are optional.  They aren't required for anything but clan wars.    Everything else is a voluntary activity.

You stats aren't team oriented.  What "you" do is "what you earn..."  For good or ill.   The Quasi-team mantra is where the "friction" starts to get a bit hot.  You are 100% dependent on the other eleven (11) players...  So, as the OP's title says you must make a difference and that, is where the paradox gets really screwy.  The better players get bored and play down and the newer and less experienced players have "no choice" but to grind up......or, stay at tiers 1-4.  At Tier 5 we are seeing greater numbers of "very experienced" players AND Division of elite players playing down...........because the T10 matches have stopped being fun, competitive or even logical with the Radar & HE spam meta's.    "It's too tough to make money" one very experienced CPT said the other day....  They are frustrated with the radar meta screwing up upper level play.....

So, here we are, in a mature game maturation cycle and WG used the Cruiser split to introduce a revenue generating exploit (radar) to boost sales and, if you know anything about mature small niche markets, they are looking for some "Blue Ocean" space to expand their "value proposition" into............in our case, the 1950's and early 1960's....  There is no where else to go or do in the WW1 / WW2 eras.....  usually, when this happens the population fragments and the game becomes an "us" versus "them" player base because the good players always "want more" and can't find it and the lesser players just get tired of the grind and constant lower level farming and leave.......  There are several games in this cycle right now and the one I am most familiar with is MWO.......they are just about done.  Exact same game cycle....

So, do you best and once there are no more average players left, your best just doesn't seem fun anymore.....  I pray WG reads gaming history and doesn't repeat it.

Teams aren't optional, you have to have one no matter which game mode you choose to play.  There is no "solo" mode here.  If you want to play this game at any point in time, you will HAVE to be paired with a random group of people with varying skill levels and differing goals to your own. Fact.  Your stats are your contribution to the team effort.  Competitive guys like contributing a lot to a win and getting a win.  When your teammates have no interest in, or understanding of, how to win. That creates conflict.  Radar is NOT an exploit, it is a mechanic essential to team play.  The problem is there is no restriction on how much of it can exist on a team, but even that is not a huge problem IMO because a skilled player can deal with it by having a high game IQ.  People have problems making money because they aren't good enough to contribute significantly in matches, which is what is used to determine how much money you make.  If you bring a 100k hp GK to a t10 match and can only average getting 50k out of it you were a 50k hp detriment to your team, and shouldn't be rolling in money for that.

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3 hours ago, _Lord_Scott_ said:

I don't get it.

The WR WTR and the Stats that mean something {What ever they are} are directly linked to the "Bad" players without them you would all suck. 

Every Stat has a low end and a high end. Those of you that have a 50% would end up on the bottom of the Charts, if the System were adjusted with the less than 50% players removed.

I will admit there are some damn good players out there. I am not one of them.

But give it a rest stop shaming those who don't measure up to "your" stats, only you care.

The "Bad" Players certainly don't.

Count me in the Bad column. 

This is wrong and I disagree with this mentality because it removes the causation of performing well from the good players and puts it in the lap of the bad players. I am not good because other people held a meeting and voted to elevate me, I am good because I worked for it. You pull out the bottom 50% and I will still be good and not because my voting base would still be there.

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First off, what you said is correct most of the time.  People do try to "fit in" most of the time,  But, no inferences can be drawn because of that behavior.....  I know a lot of players from other games in WoWs and they have zero interest in anything "team".  They play solo in random and everywhere else and do not belong to any clan nor will they.  This is a FPS......  I'm in a clan and we don't play as a "team".......we just play in the same match (divisional) and sometimes coordinate what we do.....sometimes.  Mostly, we're not serious at all....  We play for fun!  And, what we find fun is sometimes another players nightmare....  We try everything and test what works and what doesn't..... 

So, you are correct in most of what you said but, teams are completely optional: even when, you have 11 other ships next to you.........  What they do is their business and what you do is yours: sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.....

 

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3 hours ago, Business6 said:

While the sentiment is nice the reality is that, aside from everyone making bad plays from time to time, outright bad players can't change.  They lack the ability to recognize that they in fact don't know what they're doing despite thinking otherwise.

 

It's well documented and I'd love to see someone lose their sanity to produce a study on it in this game.  I've never seen more clear cut examples of it anywhere else.

No doubt many of us, you particularly, have more than a few Kraken's, Confederate's, High Caliber's and combination of those for losses that speak to the truth of that.  I mean, I know some can change but yeah, Dunning–Kruger is one hell of an effect. 

This game is best for people who have respect for what they don't know everything, respect for not even knowing how much they don't know, and who enjoy always learning something new. 

Edited by lemekillmister

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1 minute ago, lemekillmister said:

No doubt many of us, you particularly, have more than a few Kraken's, Confederate's, High Caliber's and combination of those for losses that speak to the truth of that.  I mean, I know some can change but yeah, Dunning–Kruger is one hell of an effect. 

Cognitive bias at its finest.

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21 minutes ago, bfk_ferlyfe said:

Cognitive bias at its finest.

It's possible to earn those ribbons and still make a critical mistake that loses a match anyway; I'd never argue otherwise. However; I think it is rational to expect in the majority of those cases, those players pulled more than their own weight. Would you argue otherwise? 

Edited by lemekillmister
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15 minutes ago, RedRushian said:

Teams aren't optional, you have to have one no matter which game mode you choose to play. 

Teams aren't optional, but team play is.  People daily bring examples to the forum.  If you can farm enough damage, you can keep playing, even if you lose.  There is no punishment for not wanting to be/able to be good.

Even in Rank, selfish gameplay is rewarded.  Farm enough damage, and all it takes to rank out is time.

The only game mode that has a hard force on team play is clans.

Wargaming wouldn't have it any other way. 

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4 hours ago, IgorSV94 said:

Lately (maybe I just started paying attention now) I've been seeing a lot of posts of people complaining how dumb their Teammates are.

What if I told you you can make a big impact in a game? Sure, there will be many games you will lose, don't matter how great of a player you are, this is, after all, a team game. There will be many frustrating teammates. But despite all of that, you can still make a huge difference. Why do you think the top-tier clans have usually a certain requirement for win rate for you to join them? Because a good player can effectively change the course of a game. Different types of ships have more effect than others. (e.g a good CV player can have consistent win rate of 70%+! However even them will lose some games). Being good is not about how many ships you killed or about how much damage you inflicted. It's about a multitude of things that involve damage dealt and ships killed but also when it is time to go dark, to go for a cap and, sometimes, when not to shoot. There are many players better than me, I'm sure they can go more in-depth in this, but of one thing I am sure. YOU can make a difference. Instead of making angry forums posts about MM or how your teammates made 1789 mistakes take some time after each battle to analyze what you could've done better. Just 1 minute it is enough, and you will start seeing things much more clearer.

Ps: 90% of the time it is NOT worth to repair a single fire on your ship!

EDIT: Grammar

When 4 to 6 team mates derp out early for 1 kill. No. Your impact wont do sqaut. Fighting 11 vs 6 is a loss.

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