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AMajor

I want to talk to our BB Captains about Friendly smoke

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1) for us dd main captains, smoke is life.  If we chose to use that consumable to help you, it is a big deal.

2) If we use smoke to conceal you, it means that we think that your important to securing the cap, the flank, or whatever the objective is...so much so that we're willing to risk our lives to keep you alive

3) If you see us steaming towards you, please slow down.  We are fast, but some of you are fast too.  I hate having to burn a speed boost in order to give you smoke

4) Speaking of 3, if you have a dd near and you're getting hammered, please ask for smoke.  We get focused on killing other dds and we're not always paying attention to you

5) When we set smoke, PLEASE go into it.  So many of you just sail through it like it is nothing

6) Once you're in smoke, STOP FIRING!  The smoke is there for you to hide and heal.  If you're firing inside smoke, some of the red team can still see you

7) I know that it is tempting to camp in smoke and fire away once you've got your health back.  It can work, at least for a little while.  Please be aware that one of our favorite tactics as dd drivers is to spam torps into smoke.  Heal, take a few shots inside smoke, and then beet feet to the closest hard cover.

I just played a bunch of division games with two BB drivers.  I was their screen, AND when they go spotted, their guardian.  In the real world, the role of the dd is to screen the fleet.

Moral of this story, if your a BB driver division up with a dd driver if you can.  If not, help your dds as they contest the caps.  They will be more likely to help you later in the battle.  Ask for their help if you need it.  Not all DD drivers will respond, but some of us will if we can.  We want to win and keeping you "Heavys" alive as long as we can makes it more likely that we can.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, AMajor said:

Moral of this story, if your a BB driver division up with a dd driver if you can.  If not, help your dds as they contest the caps.  They will be more likely to help you later in the battle.  Ask for their help if you need it.  Not all DD drivers will respond, but some of us will if we can.  We want to win and keeping you "Heavys" alive as long as we can makes it more likely that we can.

You are spot on with the info you posted and as someone that plays BB i have noticed if the DD is in trouble in the cap i'll  push in and try and take some of the heat of the DD , a bigger target is easier to hit then a DD which allows the DD to fall back or move to behind a island, i might die doing that but I've taken a chunk of health of the ships there or killed one and the big bonus the teams DD is alive and go back to spamming torps.

A well written post that will give new players help/info and people that play BB a incite from the DD side, so thumbs up from me.

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most of this is pretty good!

two points I would like to make from the BB side of things to the erstwhile helpful DD.

1) BBs dont stop or accelerate on a dime. Sometimes our lives depend on being able to be mobile and angled. Sometimes it is death to us if you drop smoke 4km in front of us, we eventually get to the smoke, while slowing down so as to not run through it, only to discover there is 8 seconds left on the smoke cloud and we are soon to be stationary highly visible targets to half the enemy team. Assuming that the torp magnet has not already done its job. Personally Id rather avoid the smoke altogether in most cases.

2) before you drop smoke, at any time, take a second to consider how your smoke may affect your team indirectly. Ive seen many a DD drop smoke, be immediately radared and flee... leaving a nice smoke cloud for the enemy to use against your team. Similarly for preemptive smoke corridors... while it may seem useful, what it can (not always) do is completely conceal the enemy team potentially crossing broadside through a chokepoint that could be punished if we could see through the wall-o-smoke. Worse, we could be exactly the wrong distance behind it so that we are still fully visible but not the enemy. In such cases BBs tend to turn and flee when there's 3 or 4 invisible HE slingers ripping apart the superstructure, which leads to the highly mobile and concealed DD complaining about BB campers (when potentially we could have been supporting but were thwarted by friendly smoke. Also not a fan of torps popping out of smoke that could have been detected by a plane and dodged easier.

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3 hours ago, AMajor said:

1) for us dd main captains, smoke is life.  If we chose to use that consumable to help you, it is a big deal.

2) If we use smoke to conceal you, it means that we think that your important to securing the cap, the flank, or whatever the objective is...so much so that we're willing to risk our lives to keep you alive

3) If you see us steaming towards you, please slow down.  We are fast, but some of you are fast too.  I hate having to burn a speed boost in order to give you smoke

4) Speaking of 3, if you have a dd near and you're getting hammered, please ask for smoke.  We get focused on killing other dds and we're not always paying attention to you

5) When we set smoke, PLEASE go into it.  So many of you just sail through it like it is nothing

6) Once you're in smoke, STOP FIRING!  The smoke is there for you to hide and heal.  If you're firing inside smoke, some of the red team can still see you

7) I know that it is tempting to camp in smoke and fire away once you've got your health back.  It can work, at least for a little while.  Please be aware that one of our favorite tactics as dd drivers is to spam torps into smoke.  Heal, take a few shots inside smoke, and then beet feet to the closest hard cover.

I just played a bunch of division games with two BB drivers.  I was their screen, AND when they go spotted, their guardian.  In the real world, the role of the dd is to screen the fleet.

Moral of this story, if your a BB driver division up with a dd driver if you can.  If not, help your dds as they contest the caps.  They will be more likely to help you later in the battle.  Ask for their help if you need it.  Not all DD drivers will respond, but some of us will if we can.  We want to win and keeping you "Heavys" alive as long as we can makes it more likely that we can.

All that good information, and make no mistake, the information you presented is spot on correct, ... wasted on potatoes as thick as the average BB driver is. You'd have a better chance of explaining brain surgery to an eggplant.

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Dear DD,

1) Don't worry about me getting shot at, in my BB. It's not your job to worry about that. It's mine. In fact, it's my job to get shot at. I can take it, I've got the hit points, I've got the armor. Better they shoot at me, than our team's cruisers or destroyers. It's my job to draw and tank fire.

2) I'm flattered that you think I'm important and I do appreciate the effort. However, you are important as well, and I'm sure there are better things for you to do than run back and spend so much time and effort smoking up a battleship. Time better spent keeping enemy ships lit, capping points, laying torpedo ambushes or smoking up ships that are more fragile, have less HP and less range than us, more vulnerable ships like cruisers and the like.

3) You make a big point of wanting us to stop firing. What's our use then? If we're smoked up and not getting shot at we're not tanking fire for the team, if we hold our fire we're not doing damage, and if we're sitting in smoke we're not relocating to a better firing / tanking position / keeping angled. Your smoke makes us utterly useless.

4) In my experience as BB main if a DD smokes me, he'll do it so close and in such a way that I have to slam on the brakes and rudder hard-over to stay in the smoke, meaning I'm no longer angled properly against incoming fire. They still know I'm there, they're still shooting at me, but now I'm slow / stationary and not angled against a mobile enemy, who knows where I am and that I won't be dodging his fire.

5) Smoke screens are torpedo magnets. Torpedoes are not my friend, they dislike me on principle - probably they think I said something bad about their mother. So if I make use of your smoke screen I'm stationary and in a very obvious spot that draws all the torpedoes. Even if you scout ahead of the smoke screen to spot the torpedoes 'in time', we are slow to accelerate and slow to turn, we'd have a worse time trying to dodge those torpedoes than if we'd stayed mobile. At least when we're at speed, we can turn better.

6) If dropping smoke for us is such a big deal;

6 hours ago, AMajor said:

1) for us dd main captains, smoke is life.  If we chose to use that consumable to help you, it is a big deal.

2) If we use smoke to conceal you, it means that we think that your important to securing the cap, the flank, or whatever the objective is...so much so that we're willing to risk our lives to keep you alive

... ask if we want it before dropping it for us. Communicate. Coordinate. Don't just drop smoke for us and expect us to drop everything we were doing just so you don't feel you wasted your consumable.

Now there are times where a DD dropping smoke for a BB is a god-sent, lifesaver. But in my experience as BB main, 90% of the time a DD drops smoke for a BB it's useless, I've got things in hand regarding my own health (or it's too late and the smoke won't save me, or my consumables are on cooldown), I'm doing BB things for the team, and there's zero communication from the DD. He just assumes that I need the smoke, when I really don't.

Ask us if we want smoke. If we don't answer, use your own judgment. Personally? I'll answer 'no thanks' 90% of the time, because I don't want to be useless, stationary, unangled and holding my fire. I'm sure there are better things you can do as the stealthiest and fastest on the map with the most potent alpha strike.

Thank you for caring about me. Truly. But honestly, I could do without the guilt trip.

Sincerely, your BB.

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7 hours ago, AMajor said:

1) for us dd main captains, smoke is life.  If we chose to use that consumable to help you, it is a big deal.

2) If we use smoke to conceal you, it means that we think that your important to securing the cap, the flank, or whatever the objective is...so much so that we're willing to risk our lives to keep you alive

3) If you see us steaming towards you, please slow down.  We are fast, but some of you are fast too.  I hate having to burn a speed boost in order to give you smoke

4) Speaking of 3, if you have a dd near and you're getting hammered, please ask for smoke.  We get focused on killing other dds and we're not always paying attention to you

5) When we set smoke, PLEASE go into it.  So many of you just sail through it like it is nothing

6) Once you're in smoke, STOP FIRING!  The smoke is there for you to hide and heal.  If you're firing inside smoke, some of the red team can still see you

7) I know that it is tempting to camp in smoke and fire away once you've got your health back.  It can work, at least for a little while.  Please be aware that one of our favorite tactics as dd drivers is to spam torps into smoke.  Heal, take a few shots inside smoke, and then beet feet to the closest hard cover.

I just played a bunch of division games with two BB drivers.  I was their screen, AND when they go spotted, their guardian.  In the real world, the role of the dd is to screen the fleet.

Moral of this story, if your a BB driver division up with a dd driver if you can.  If not, help your dds as they contest the caps.  They will be more likely to help you later in the battle.  Ask for their help if you need it.  Not all DD drivers will respond, but some of us will if we can.  We want to win and keeping you "Heavys" alive as long as we can makes it more likely that we can.

 

 

This works up to T6-T7. Beyond that the ships will be blind and will be radared to death, especially when there are multiple radar ships, Missouri, ships with hydro, and radar cruisers being the short-term exceptions. Smoke is a bug-out card for ships when the brown stuff hits the fan if you avoid firing from inside the smoke. It is also a torpedo magnet. While it hides you, it also blinds your supports, who cannot see to fire through smoke. As far as cap contesting is concerned, don't go into a cap without assured support from at least two other ships within reasonable range (ie.; less than 8km) even if you are first ship in. I am a BB main. When my DDs smoke it up too soon, they ruin my fire control solution and cease to be usefull spotters. I can understand the survival reflex, not not the pop-smoke-to-hide with full health.

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The downside is when someone pulls their dd 30 feet off portside then dumps smoke as they cross your path. Meanwhile you plow through the ship and the smoke and both get sunk.

I had a guy in a Neptune use his smoke to protect me (in a bb) as i made a hard 180 turn across his bow... yes it was that close. Very nice of the guy, very nice indeed, just today as a matter of fact. But back to dds...

If you do drop smoke for us, don't stay inside of it. 'Cause now I'm totally blind. 

Otherwise - thanks! 

 

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As a DD, tier 10, I will usually lay a huge screen and then spot torps and ships for my team. I run Smoke gen mod and speed boost mod to further enhance this ability.

Will also announce where and when I pop smoke so any who want may take advantage. The key here is to continue to spot for team.

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I've had it both ways. I've been saved by smoke in my bb but I've also had a dd waste smoke on me as well. Remember that if we have been firing our detection doesn't just go down to 0 even with smoke. If an enemy is close enough they will still see us even with smoke.  Playing a dd I will try to smoke up cruisers if they need it and on occasion a bb if they need cover to turn or something. It's great that you actually try to help but like others have said try to ask first so you don't waste precious smoke.

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8 hours ago, AMajor said:

2) If we use smoke to conceal you, it means that we think that your important to securing the cap, the flank, or whatever the objective is...so much so that we're willing to risk our lives to keep you alive

even under smoke i'm usually still targeted. plus while in my GK it doesnt stop or start very well so if you place smoke before me it could be a wasted effort as i cant stop in time

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8 hours ago, AMajor said:

1) for us dd main captains, smoke is life.  If we chose to use that consumable to help you, it is a big deal.

2) If we use smoke to conceal you, it means that we think that your important to securing the cap, the flank, or whatever the objective is...so much so that we're willing to risk our lives to keep you alive

3) If you see us steaming towards you, please slow down.  We are fast, but some of you are fast too.  I hate having to burn a speed boost in order to give you smoke

4) Speaking of 3, if you have a dd near and you're getting hammered, please ask for smoke.  We get focused on killing other dds and we're not always paying attention to you

5) When we set smoke, PLEASE go into it.  So many of you just sail through it like it is nothing

6) Once you're in smoke, STOP FIRING!  The smoke is there for you to hide and heal.  If you're firing inside smoke, some of the red team can still see you

7) I know that it is tempting to camp in smoke and fire away once you've got your health back.  It can work, at least for a little while.  Please be aware that one of our favorite tactics as dd drivers is to spam torps into smoke.  Heal, take a few shots inside smoke, and then beet feet to the closest hard cover.

I just played a bunch of division games with two BB drivers.  I was their screen, AND when they go spotted, their guardian.  In the real world, the role of the dd is to screen the fleet.

Moral of this story, if your a BB driver division up with a dd driver if you can.  If not, help your dds as they contest the caps.  They will be more likely to help you later in the battle.  Ask for their help if you need it.  Not all DD drivers will respond, but some of us will if we can.  We want to win and keeping you "Heavys" alive as long as we can makes it more likely that we can.

 

 

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I agree a lot with Lert concerning this, however the times I find the smokes the most useful is late game where it can hide you and allow you to re-position without having to really worry about getting smacked for the rest of your hp

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If I am in a BB and a DD asks if I want smoke, 99.9999% of the time, I will say NO.  I want my primaries shooting and shooting often, I want to tank, I want to push, save your smoke for you.  Appreciate the help, but often I have seen BB's get smoked up and the DD is in smoke and no one is spotting anymore so no targets can get shot at.

 

Fantastic seeing someone trying to WORK WITH TEAM MATES.  But in the end I think, smoking BB's is NOT beneficial anymore(since the "invisi-fire" removal).

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I'm honestly more offended when a cruiser leaves my smoke to keep getting shot at by battleships.

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You guys bring up good points.  It is important to communicate and doubly important to spatially deploy smoke properly.  Let me give you an example,  I was in my Sims and my team was contesting a cap about mid-game.  One of our BBs (a Fuso) was getting hammered by two red BBs, one off her starboard side and one off her port.  She was bleeding HPs.  I maneuvered to her starboard side and started laying smoke when I got to her midships and kept going at full speed in a straight line.  That blocked the starboard BBs sight.  As I'm laying smoke, I let fly my "sea mine" torps against the port BB causing her to have to maneuver and loosing her lock on our BB.  Our BB healed up and then we took out the port-side BB first and the starboard side BB next.  We secured the Cap and our team ended up winning the game. 

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I am not even entirely sure why you would smoke up a BB, when it is better used on a cruiser.

Particularly, one with radar.

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On 8/5/2018 at 9:14 AM, Lert said:

Dear DD,

1) Don't worry about me getting shot at

UPDATE TO MY ORIGINAL POST:  When I ask for advice in forums, I read every response and try and absorb the information from the collective "mindhive" to improve my gameplay.  I took the information that you all gave me, I watched some vids from the "Masters" (Noster, Jingles, iChase, etc.), and now I have a better understanding about the role of using smoke to assist teammates.

What prompted this post in the first place is that I've been recently divisioning up with some of my clanmates who are BB mains.  They had never had a dd smoke them up when they had been in trouble before and it was enlightening to them as to how useful it is to take a breath and heal up before engaging again.  As you all pointed out above, communication is key, because we were divisioned together, that was easier.  In a purely Random game with strangers, my advice is less useful.  So, please allow me to amend my original post to state that when in Clan or Ranked battles ina BB, see points 1-7 above. 

And about Point 1 - not so much anymore.  We are all still adjusting to the new Radar environment in the game.  dd drivers have been hit especially hard because smoke was one of our main defenses to counter the fact that our armor is thin and our HPs are small.  Noster made a great video about smoke in the new radar environment from the dds perspective.  

 

One last point.  The reason that I care about keeping you BBs alive as long as possible is because late in close games, your survival is usually the difference between winning and losing.  If I'm still in a late game in my dd, it is likely that my HP is low so I'm moving from hard cover to hard cover because one AP shot from a BB or cruiser will likely take me out.  If I'm in my USN dd, I will tend to throw torps at close to 3/4 of their range to keep the red boats away, but my 9.2 km fish are slow and good BB and cruiser drivers can avoid them.  I do not have the gunpower to overwhelm them myself.  I need you to do your big gun thing thing, and if popping smoke for you and continuing to spot for you means that I die, so be it as long as we win the game.

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