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jags_domain

French nerf

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I like the reload booster for t10 but please leave the t8 alone! T8 French is strong but its not even close to OP. Nerfing it is a bad ideas especially 2 sec!

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If you have feedback for the current PTS, you can post your thoughts in the PTS feedback thread here: 

 

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Yeah, I was playing Martel on PTS and it barely felt like a thing. They need to add a soundeffect while the reload booster is consumbable is active.

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The reload booster is a buff.  Now cruisers can't brawl with you and you are guaranteed citadels if they show you broadside (assuming you can shoot) because they can't make a turn within the 5-6 seconds your reload booster makes your reload.  It makes the ship more than a long range HE spammer while nerfing the long range HE spam a little bit (I say a little because you can still use the reload booster to get those fires set faster on a ship that just damage controlled and fire damage is a big part of your damage).  The CM is probably my favorite cruiser in the game and I personally think the change makes it more OP than before (not that it was OP, but now it might be a little).

Edited by mrh308

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I hate when people use binary answer to these changes. Everything has to be a buff or a nerf... This, to me, is a typical balance change that is neither a buff nor a nerf, because it is obvious WG is trying to change the role of those ships. Yes, part of the change is a nerf (the reload is longer than before), but there's also a part of it that's a buff (new consumable). From the OP's very short post, I'm going to assume that he thinks the buff doesn't counterweight the nerf. But it really is not important because the balance change is aiming at changing the role or the uniqueness of those ships, probably because they were too similar to other lines and they brought nothing new or interesting in terms of gameplay (you can agree or disagree with this analysis, but to me, that's WG's point of view and why they want to do this change).

That said, I'm not saying the current change is balanced or not. I honestly have no idea and this is why WG tests things out before release. This is why it's going to be on the PTS. It's also why, if it ends up being underwhelming, they will actually buff the ships to appropriate level. But my point is to look at those changes for what they are: actual gameplay changes and not a buff or a nerf. The ships will now handle differently and be able to perform new duties (burst damage) that they were not able to do before. They may not be able to perform the same way they did before however, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as new ways to use the ships were introduced.

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I see alot of players saying this or that ship is OP. I contest that a ship is OP only if most players have spent the time to get good with it. I watched a player testing the new British DDs and he didn't like them almost calling them bad. All the while doing 150k damage and sinking 4 ships... Hmm methinks it's more to do with the playwr and not the ship. 

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7 minutes ago, Sped_Gax said:

I see alot of players saying this or that ship is OP. I contest that a ship is OP only if most players have spent the time to get good with it. I watched a player testing the new British DDs and he didn't like them almost calling them bad. All the while doing 150k damage and sinking 4 ships... Hmm methinks it's more to do with the playwr and not the ship. 

The difference between an overperforming ship and a overpowered ship is the players who use it. 

The Flint is overperforming because it has, almost exclusively, unicum players using it.  The ship does not bring up the players stats, the players bring up the ship stats.  

The Belfast is overpowered because it is very effective in all hands.  The ship takes a good player and makes them great, and takes a bad player and makes them good.  The ship brings up the players stats, not vice versa.  

There is a very fine line between the two, and you have to look at delta from averages compared to just raw numbers.  That's the information WG has access to, that we do not, and that's what they base a vast majority of their buffs and nerfs on.  It's why people who claimed the Conqueror was OP were annoyed, we can't see the stats as compared to the rest of the ships, and WG deemed it was performing exactly how they expected.  

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

I like the reload booster for t10 but please leave the t8 alone! T8 French is strong but its not even close to OP. Nerfing it is a bad ideas especially 2 sec!

Tested Charles Martel in PTS. I have it in the game already.

The nerf feels significant and the buff feels useless. it allows you to fire just 3 salvos in 15 seconds. Very situational.

Does not feel worth the increased reload time. MHO

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I think 12 seconds is a little excessive, it brings the overall rof below myoko.The Martel exists to spam shells like the Brit bbs. It has next to no other use. A 1 or 0.5 second reload increase would probably bring the overall the dpm over the entirety of the match a little below what it is now, in return for the ability to burst Dds and stack fires or citadels a few times per battle

Edited by Q___________Q

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2 hours ago, HorrorRoach said:

Yeah, I was playing Martel on PTS and it barely felt like a thing. They need to add a soundeffect while the reload booster is consumbable is active.

Just to clarify you mean you did not notice the 2 sec? Or you did like the reload booster.

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1 hour ago, garfield001 said:

I hate when people use binary answer to these changes. Everything has to be a buff or a nerf... This, to me, is a typical balance change that is neither a buff nor a nerf, because it is obvious WG is trying to change the role of those ships. Yes, part of the change is a nerf (the reload is longer than before), but there's also a part of it that's a buff (new consumable). From the OP's very short post, I'm going to assume that he thinks the buff doesn't counterweight the nerf. But it really is not important because the balance change is aiming at changing the role or the uniqueness of those ships, probably because they were too similar to other lines and they brought nothing new or interesting in terms of gameplay (you can agree or disagree with this analysis, but to me, that's WG's point of view and why they want to do this change).

That said, I'm not saying the current change is balanced or not. I honestly have no idea and this is why WG tests things out before release. This is why it's going to be on the PTS. It's also why, if it ends up being underwhelming, they will actually buff the ships to appropriate level. But my point is to look at those changes for what they are: actual gameplay changes and not a buff or a nerf. The ships will now handle differently and be able to perform new duties (burst damage) that they were not able to do before. They may not be able to perform the same way they did before however, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as new ways to use the ships were introduced.

Great analysis of the situation.  I get fought up in the nerf buff thing and not a larger pic. Wil think differently next time.

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Not to mention tier 8s almost always see tier 10s these days!:cap_old:

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Played it on the PTS. The booster is going to be good for brawling, finishing damaged enemies before they can go into concealment, stacking fires at the beginning of the match, and kill stealing/securing. 

Martel  definitely didn't need a buff like this. St Louis maybe did but so do all the orphan T9 cruisers except Kron. Henri is excellent and does not need a buff. 

I like the reload booster idea but it needs to be on low DPM ships that get less love from the playerbase. And why is it on the French line when "cue balling" is a US practice and players have been calling for it since forever, and T6-7 US cruisers are low DPM ships that could use it? *sigh*

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2 hours ago, BladedPheonix said:

Not to mention tier 8s almost always see tier 10s these days!:cap_old:

That’s actually a bonus for the Charles Martel - more fire damage as the base HP of the BBs are higher, and more XP for the same effort...

9 hours ago, barbaroja_Ar said:

Tested Charles Martel in PTS. I have it in the game already.

The nerf feels significant and the buff feels useless. it allows you to fire just 3 salvos in 15 seconds. Very situational.

Does not feel worth the increased reload time. MHO

This is what I am worried about...

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Cruisers aren't meant to be competitive ships until Tier 10. They simply fixed the CM.

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Charles Martel and Saint Louis are good as they currently are. I even kept Martel because she's just so good at what she's supposed to do. 

 

According to Flamu, Henri has been given this gimmick because she's not popular. Well maybe it's bad for the dev that Henri isn't really popular but personnally, as an Henri player, I'm quite happy not to face a lot of Henri. BB will melt like ice and cruiser get citadeled if they don't pay attention. I don't know if this consummable will make her more popular but it will most likely make her a bit more competitive 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Charles Martel and Saint Louis are good as they currently are. I even kept Martel because she's just so good at what she's supposed to do. 

 

According to Flamu, Henri has been given this gimmick because she's not popular. Well maybe it's bad for the dev that Henri isn't really popular but personnally, as an Henri player, I'm quite happy not to face a lot of Henri. BB will melt like ice and cruiser get citadeled if they don't pay attention. I don't know if this consummable will make her more popular but it will most likely make her a bit more competitive 

 

 

Not to mention cruisers with her gun caliber can citadel perfectly broadside battleships.

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Well, It's what La Glass needed, that's for sure. La Glass has a ridiculously poor reload for Tier VI 152 mm guns

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On 8/4/2018 at 8:14 PM, UltimateNewbie said:

That’s actually a bonus for the Charles Martel - more fire damage as the base HP of the BBs are higher, and more XP for the same effort...

This is what I am worried about...

true. but if you decide to keep that ship and have researched everything, the EXP is a bit irelivant. unless of course your trying to knock out special missions during events/campaigns.:fish_aqua:

 

I really wish WG would add a captain EXP boost option just like they have in WOT & WOWP. though TBH we already have so many ways to level up captains at a good rate already.:cap_hmm:

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Seems a bit weird that the CM and SL get the reload booster with a duration of 15 seconds and a 180 second cooldown timer (tier I version, 120 seconds for tier II), yet the Jean Bart (BB) coming out soon is fitted with one that lasts 30 seconds and is usable again after 120 seconds (again tier I, 80 seconds for tier II)...:cap_wander:

CM & SL are getting roughly a 10% net nerf if you factor in the booster against the increased rate of fire, though that assumes you're constantly firing anyway.

Edited by Bonfor

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4 hours ago, Bonfor said:

Seems a bit weird that the CM and SL get the reload booster with a duration of 15 seconds and a 180 second cooldown timer (tier I version, 120 seconds for tier II), yet the Jean Bart (BB) coming out soon is fitted with one that lasts 30 seconds and is usable again after 120 seconds (again tier I, 80 seconds for tier II)...:cap_wander:

CM & SL are getting roughly a 10% net nerf if you factor in the booster against the increased rate of fire, though that assumes you're constantly firing anyway.

I think that is because of the base reload of battleship guns is a lot longer, so even when halved it still takes longer to get salvos off compared to a heavy cruiser. Hence, the longer active period. 

Also, JB is a T8 that has been uptiered to T9; whereas current Charles Martel is an over performing T8.5 - a straight buff in the form of the module without a reload nerf would make it even more op. 

Edited by UltimateNewbie

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As mentioned, Martel was definitely overperforming compared to all the other T8 cruisers, so honestly it should have eaten a nerf regardless. Whether this one is too much is debatable. I do agree the reload booster is just a dumb concept all around though, for any ship. Jean Bart magically getting a better reload than cruisers  in any circumstance is just ridiculous.

 

On 8/4/2018 at 11:25 AM, Q___________Q said:

I think 12 seconds is a little excessive, it brings the overall rof below myoko.The Martel exists to spam shells like the Brit bbs. It has next to no other use. A 1 or 0.5 second reload increase would probably bring the overall the dpm over the entirety of the match a little below what it is now, in return for the ability to burst Dds and stack fires or citadels a few times per battle

How exactly does your math work? Even with the nerf to a 12 second reload, CM still puts more shells downrange than a Myoko: 10 guns * 14 second reload results in 42.9 shells per minute, as opposed to 9 guns * 12 second reload... which is 45 shells per minute. And this is ignoring that CM can turn its turrets nearly twice as fast as Myoko, so it gets those guns on target far faster as well. Also that CM's actual equivalent tier IJN cruiser is the Mogami, which mounts the same type and number of guns as Myoko (if mounting the 203s)... but has a 15 second reload and thus only puts 40 shells downrange per minute.

Edited by NozTheWhiteDawn

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