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Norsehound

What's a good brawler?

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I ground my way to the Gneissenau hoping to enjoy that mean secondary battery, heavy battleship guns, torpedoes, and high health... but the ship seems to die sooner than I anticipated. Anyone have a good recommendation for a ship that likes to fight really close range and can tank a lot of damage? Or is the Gneissenau it and I just need to gring everything out?

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Face it, Brawler in high tier battle, tend to sink lot, I mean lot, to stay alive you still had to camping snipe, and seach lone or 2 ship wtihout support from enemies ship shooting at you, then you can safety full speed toward, but not in start of game where whole enemies shooting at you, while rest of your teammate stay back and camping snipe. 

Best is go with main fleet, check how many enemy  had good chance to shoot you, so go on, if 2 or 3, I will more likely full speed and head on to try use Secondary, but not always work, if there is smart player with faster ship outrun you and knew you had a good secondary, then you will likely had a chance to get sink before use that secondary gun on him, and might draw you to trap where more enemy gang up on you if there still more left.

I knew this because I had done so many time in massachusetts

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First, temper your expectations. What do you think a 'good brawler' is? Any ships is going to get its face pushed in if you just steam into the enemy team, no matter how good at brawling it is. A good brawler is simply a ship that gives you a toolbox to use in a 1-on-1 situation with a similar enemy ship. Bismarck has heavy secondaries and turtleback armor, with mediocre guns. Massachusetts lacks Bismarck's survivability but compensates with an even more potent secondary battery - on paper. There's also Tirpitz, same secondary battery and turtleback armor as Bismarck, plus torpedoes. However, these secondary batteries don't start really making themselves count until you spend a lot of captain points and sacrifice upgrade slots to buff them.

But no matter what ship you're driving, if you push it into too many enemies or don't drive it defensively enough, it's not going to excel at brawling.

Brawling is 70% player skill, 30% the ship.

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Being a good brawler doesn’t mean you want to charge your way to the front and kick the door in within the first five minutes. That way will have you eat torps, get set on fire, eat more torps, have your torpedo tubes get destroyed and take a heavy AP salvo from the other BB you want to brawl then die with little more fanfare than a fart.

You pick your brawls you effect the direction of the game with your mere presence close enough to, but not at, the front to keep the enemy cruisers from closely supporting their DDs allowing your cruisers and DDs to cap and kill their DDs. This sets off a domino effect of their cruisers abandoning and running. Leaving that slow AF Colorado to face you alone. This is when you close slightly angled nose in tanking his AP, blazing secondaries until you get a shot at his citadel and can let torps go.  

You might not have consistent high damage games like you might have with other BB lines, but you can cause a win or loss if you put yourself in the right spot. More than any other BB line imo because most ships will run away from you. The massive damage games come to you every so often if your guns find good dispersion.

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You do need captain 19 point, it's help way lot for brawling, you need to had those Preventative maintenance, Adrenaline Rush, Expert markman (I'm petty sure it's help secondary, not just main gun) Firing Training, Advanced Firing Training, Basics of Survivability, Surivivability Expert, Fire Prevention, Inertia Fues for He Shell with Demonlition cover up weakness, Concealment (as long not fire gun, you could sneak up to get in secondary range and full power of firepower but stay alive so they don't shoot you right away) Manual Fire Control for Secondary is a question, it's good, help hit ship more often but only you set manual, one at a time target, without it, secondary fire at will on both side. If you do not had lot of those skill, you better off camping and snipe it. 

Edited by Humility925

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The trick to brawling is knowing when you can brawl, sadly. Some matches there will be no opportunities.

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It took me some time to learn brawling in a Gneisenau.  The main thing is to use cover to 1) only engage part of the enemy at a time and 2) get closer.  Use your maneuverability to weave through islands, hiding one of your broadsides, until you can pop out on a cruiser or two at close range.  Brawling does not mean charging at the enemy team with abandon.  It does not mean going 1v3.  It means using your maneuverability to get in close and isolating a ship or two, which you can crush in close quarters.

Edited by n00bot
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3 minutes ago, Rpkscout1 said:

I love brawling in the Tirpitz and Colorado (as weird as it may sound).

Tirpitz is a brawler ship but Colorado are not, secondary had short range, 5 km for Colorado making not a good brawler.

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Even the Bismarck has trouble wading into a group and expecting to survive very long. Gneisenau is not a bad ship for that, but you have to pick your battles carefully. First of all, carry premium repair and any fire mitigating skills or flags you can. You have to surprise them close and personal to make the torps work. Any long rush is going to get you burned to a crisp. Think more like a cruiser or even DD and hide for as long as possible. Open water is death to brawlers. 

All that said, my favourite brawlers are the Normandie or Lyon with secondaries. But the slow turrets are still a challenge.

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10 minutes ago, Humility925 said:

Tirpitz is a brawler ship but Colorado are not, secondary had short range, 5 km for Colorado making not a good brawler.

There again, it depends on what you define to be a brawler.

My definition of a brawler is that it has to be able to bow tank nicely and have good sized guns.

Your definition is that it has to have long-ranged secondaries.

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I use the alsace as my primary battleship for brawling and just ha big fun in it. I run the unique French captain on it with 19pts. A fully skilled captain is not necessary, 14pts will suffice just fine.

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Most of time battle happen in 7km to 22km, even you could get that Colorado to 7km (with Captain skill and upgrade) that's is min and max at same time, lot of time enemy keep turning and moving away from 7km, unlikely Colorado couldn't chase faster DD or CA, and much harder to get out of torp way, longer range, more chance to get torp out of way. 

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Scharnhorst.....IF you can get in close enough. And I mean like under 5k if you are brawling another BB. You have very fast potent torps.  Most BBs do not.  Tirpitz is a tough kill cause she has the big guns and torps. 

Edited by dmckay

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The one thing I hate about this game is how secondaries are treated.  Go in to fast you get HE rekted, stay back and snipe with the others, you end up taking lots of HE damage over the course of the game and still by the time you can push up your secondaries have been burned off.......

 

Why is it I can't knock out a DDs torps for the entire game, or any other weapon system other then AA? 

 

Its dumb!

 

I can't count the times I have fought a long battle and finally get to push in my Mass/Tirp over to get into secondary range and realize there all gone....

 

I also think this plays into people going yolo in these ships because they want to fight with there full secondaries and if they wait it out its not happening. 

Edited by Slumlord_Cheeto

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1 hour ago, Humility925 said:

Face it, Brawler in high tier battle, tend to sink lot, I mean lot, to stay alive you still had to camping snipe, and seach lone or 2 ship wtihout support from enemies ship shooting at you, then you can safety full speed toward, but not in start of game where whole enemies shooting at you, while rest of your teammate stay back and camping snipe. 

Best is go with main fleet, check how many enemy  had good chance to shoot you, so go on, if 2 or 3, I will more likely full speed and head on to try use Secondary, but not always work, if there is smart player with faster ship outrun you and knew you had a good secondary, then you will likely had a chance to get sink before use that secondary gun on him, and might draw you to trap where more enemy gang up on you if there still more left.

I knew this because I had done so many time in massachusetts

This.

Brawling is effectively dead. My first T10 was the GK which was an excellent brawler (rudder shift full secondary build, you can Google IFHE tests with its secondaries it's hilarious), brawling hasn't been viable for many many months, at least in randoms, maybe it still is in PVE.

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4 minutes ago, w4spl3g said:

This.

Brawling is effectively dead. My first T10 was the GK which was an excellent brawler (rudder shift full secondary build, you can Google IFHE tests with its secondaries it's hilarious), brawling hasn't been viable for many many months, at least in randoms, maybe it still is in PVE.

With all the high DPM they added to tier 10, you have to sneak up, or catch someone not paying attention.

With the GK, you are sneaking up on no one, and not paying attention gets you dead too quickly for a brawl to happen.

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2 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I ground my way to the Gneissenau hoping to enjoy that mean secondary battery, heavy battleship guns, torpedoes, and high health... but the ship seems to die sooner than I anticipated. Anyone have a good recommendation for a ship that likes to fight really close range and can tank a lot of damage? Or is the Gneissenau it and I just need to gring everything out?

Just because it's a brawler, doesn't mean it should beat a DD into battle. You still have to play smart. You are not a camper of course, but you still will get some hits while you are distant.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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58 minutes ago, w4spl3g said:

This.

Brawling is effectively dead. My first T10 was the GK which was an excellent brawler (rudder shift full secondary build, you can Google IFHE tests with its secondaries it's hilarious), brawling hasn't been viable for many many months, at least in randoms, maybe it still is in PVE.

My Massachusetts with its 92k average damage and it’s ability to regularly place in the Top 3 even on tier 10 gamaes disagrees with your assessment of brawling.

Brawling does not meet charging in off the bat.   It’s about learning when and where you can push in close and savage people... and when you can’t.

Its a learned skill.   Even the best brawler (Massachusetts) won’t deliver for you unless you put it in a good position to do what it does best without getting focus fired.  Brawling takes a lot of practice to learn.

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1 hour ago, Rpkscout1 said:

There again, it depends on what you define to be a brawler.

My definition of a brawler is that it has to be able to bow tank nicely and have good sized guns.

Your definition is that it has to have long-ranged secondaries.

Bow tanking has nothing to do with brawling.   Brawlers require agility.   Yiu’re Going to be moving fast and maneuvering a lot.

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I like Tirpitz and the MASS for brawling.  Though the MASS secondary's even at 11K are not that great in my  opinion.  The BB-59 was pushed as a USA BB brawler, the German BBs Bismarck and T are  a little better.  The T is best with torps.

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1 hour ago, w4spl3g said:

This.

Brawling is effectively dead. My first T10 was the GK which was an excellent brawler (rudder shift full secondary build, you can Google IFHE tests with its secondaries it's hilarious), brawling hasn't been viable for many many months, at least in randoms, maybe it still is in PVE.

Brawling is NOT Dead, lol I brawl a lot, including few hours ag got onto some great brawls. I am not saying charge the entire enemy team all at once, but most of the time enemy fleet does split up into much smaller groups. Often you can brawl with those successfully.

Konig, Bayern, Warspite, Gneisenau, Normandie, Lyon, Bismarck, Yamato, and Richelieu are all able to brawl well.

I do not have these, but Massachusetts, Scharnhorst, and Tirpitz  are also great at brawling.

For that matter pretty much any BB and some cruisers can brawl if you know how to do it and when. And of course gunboat DDs get into knife fight brawls a lot lol.

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Yep, you had to be agility and maneuvering as need to be in right time to move, Bow toward to enemies, little bit left or right to let secondary shooting, but stop and go rear or 1/4 speed if there sneaking DD going to torp, sometime it's just too late, sometime you had chance to maneuvering, but worse case, maneuvering wrong time, like try to turn away from few or more enemies who hadn't shoot you yet, but waiting till while you turning to boardside, while that gave more firepower but more weakness to enemies gun like citadel hit, but shouldn't move on without nearly by support of plane spotting or CA who had a radors if you are aware of dd in that area in the first place

if you are see a smoke area, don't go near because of DD,, sure secondary make dd sink good chance, but good chance dd will torp you 4 or 5 hit in close range, you had no chance to maneuvering, BB may had a great secondary range but isn't good agility and maneuvering, it's snail as slow, torp often faster to hit before got out of way. stay away from dd, unless dd already fire torp, that gave you 1 min cooldown, but still better off not chase dd, but rather turn and let's your ship's rear secondary shoot dd while you try get away from dd. not closer. It's just secondary keep dd at bay, make harder for dd to use torp on your bb. 

Secondary isn't be all, you still had to use main gun and camping snipe, but bb with good secondary willing to be close and help good chance sink ship, but aware of number of enemies even if they are good aim, then you do need to bow toward them ensure not get citadel hit. But not always full speed, sometime 1/4 speed or going rear help while bow toward enemies who are good aim, but it's less power for secondary, but use font main gun, rear gun for other ship or try to fleeing, not use all main gun same time on single ship, sometime that may be not wise. 

I think key is aware of enemies who close each other, and are there sneaking dd who spot you easy, that is you need to watch out and you can't use secondary gun like that, your ship get sink fast, unless you had main teammate back you up and support you, but how often that happen in random? not much.

Edit: Oh, never go drive in middle of enemies, they all shoot at your boardside and lot of citadel hit. 

Edited by Humility925

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