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Avrova1904

Destroyers are really hard to play for me

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I am trying with japanese destroyers. Sometimes is really hard to stand even 3 minutes, the problem comes when I am spotted, then, my game is almost finished. I noticed that the very little mistake is enough reason to finish the game. I find myself better with battleships since I can stand more time and don't require so many skills. I guess that to have some success with destroyers a practice of more than 1 year is a must. I am having trouble mainly with higher tier japanese destroyers. Up to Tier V I enjoy the game and I can even contribute in a possitive way. That's the reason I am thinking about sticking to Tier V destroyers.

I am now with Hatsuharu and no idea how to play this ship. 6 torpedos with 10.0 km but 5.9 knots, would be better to desmount the upgrade and play it with 6.0 km torpedos and 63 knots?

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You have to stay out of detection radius and anticipate their movements when you throw torps.

Remember, they can see your torps from around 1.8 km, so they will move based on that information.

Try throwing a set along the white guide and then throwing another 30-45 degrees ahead/behind that (based on what you think the target will do). Also pay attention to what they are doing (if they're backing up, they can go forward and faster than they back up).

Avoid using your guns unless you are sure that your target and their backup will be distracted from others. Stop firing when you want to evade, and head out of detection radius.

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I gave DD's a try. They were very unforgiving. Because of their stealth DD's become priority targets for the other team.

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DD play isn't for everyone.  Always be aware of the location of the opposing team, your concealment range and what ships, if any, have radar.  IJN torps have a higher spotting distance than other nations.  I don't know what the Hatsuharu's is off-hand, but I would guess 1.6k or something.  if you mouse over the torps, it should tell you.   This means that a target has greater amount of time to react before possibly getting hit.  Of course, with captain skills like Vigilance and consumables like hydro or float planes, that makes things more difficult at times.  It may be worth trying the USN or KMS Destroyer lines to see how you fare with them.  

Patience is key... if you want to be a ninja torp boat, you have to be patient and watch how the battle develops.  Too often a player will charge in early and be sent back to port quickly for it.  Nothing happens overnight.. give them some time and you will be rewarded.  :Smile_honoring:

B

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I don't mean to offend, but you couldn't have picked a worse DD to start with than Hatsuharu. She is very unforgiving, basically a Fubuki that  gave up a torpedo launcher for a bit better concealment. My opinion is to leave her for now and grind the Fubuki instead if you are after IJN DDs. Then, once you got a better grasp of the class give her another shot. It is also very helpful to have a 10 point captain with Concealment Expert in most DDs you will play.

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8 minutes ago, Avrova1904 said:

I am trying with japanese destroyers. Sometimes is really hard to stand even 3 minutes, the problem comes when I am spotted, then, my game is almost finished. I noticed that the very little mistake is enough reason to finish the game. I find myself better with battleships since I can stand more time and don't require so many skills. I guess that to have some success with destroyers a practice of more than 1 year is a must. I am having trouble mainly with higher tier japanese destroyers. Up to Tier V I enjoy the game and I can even contribute in a possitive way. That's the reason I am thinking about sticking to Tier V destroyers.

I am now with Hatsuharu and no idea how to play this ship. 6 torpedos with 10.0 km but 5.9 knots, would be better to desmount the upgrade and play it with 6.0 km torpedos and 63 knots?

IJN DDs .....with a few exceptions, could be the hardest to play. The torps have poor concealment which gives your target more time to react, though the guns hit hard, they reload slowly and the turrets turn like they are stuck in molasses. The biggest redeeming feature is that they generally have the best concealment..... so using the shorter range torps is not recommended. You can use the torpedo acceleration skill for your captain to speed up your torps to 64 kts and still have an 8 km range.

The IJN line takes skill and patience to play, DON'T be seen.

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first, DO NOT use 6 km torps. They are completely useless for you since you have no guns (to speak of) and rely on torps to do damage and using 6km torps requires you to close to suicidal range to use them, not good for your health.

For general tips, mid tier dds are the toughest, especially if you don't have 10 pt captain. Try to focus on torping BBs from stealth and spotting for your team. Contest caps if it's safe, and don't overextend. You should have small detection advantage over most gunboat dds (unless they have concealment expert and you don't), so you can avoid them and just spot them for your team to kill. Also, use your smoke as mostly defensive tool to escape, not to shoot from, as your guns are just not that good, and smokes are torp magnets. 

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In all destroyers, and especially Japanese, I find myself watching the minimap very nearly as much as the ship itself or my targets.  I am not amazing with them, by any stretch of the imagination, but I get the best results when I'm keenly aware of my sightlines, limiting lines of approach and effective ranges.

Even though the map is not of absolutely reliable resolution, it gives you vital information in the employment of your destroyer.  Spotting ranges, engagement ranges, geographic features and the positions of enemy units.

The second key is knowing your weapons.  If your torpedoes have a 10km maximum range and you're firing at a target 8km distant which is moving away from you at 30kts, your torpedoes have a 0% chance.  If you're significantly distant from your target, and they are bow-in and closing your position, you have only a slightly better chance of success.  For maximum effect and best probability of success your ideal position is off the target's port or starboard bow, travelling parallel to their course.  That gives you the most opportunities to launch (later on you'll be able to use ships with Torpedo Reload Booster, allowing multiple salvos in the water at once) and the greatest likelihood that one or more of your torpedoes will connect.

Your guns are also very capable in IJN DDs.  Oftentimes people will ignore them almost completely, but they are actually (usually) hard hitting.  Hatsuharu's aren't fantastic, no, but they will easily finish an enemy DD or cruiser on low health.  They are not rapid-firing weapons, but they are accurate and have very good ballistics.  One of my Kamikaze Kraken games had 4 gun kills.  Don't be afraid to use them when the opportunity presents itself to focus a target while avoiding counter fire from other units.

-R

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6 hours ago, Avrova1904 said:

I am trying with japanese destroyers. Sometimes is really hard to stand even 3 minutes, the problem comes when I am spotted, then, my game is almost finished. I noticed that the very little mistake is enough reason to finish the game. I find myself better with battleships since I can stand more time and don't require so many skills. I guess that to have some success with destroyers a practice of more than 1 year is a must. I am having trouble mainly with higher tier japanese destroyers. Up to Tier V I enjoy the game and I can even contribute in a possitive way. That's the reason I am thinking about sticking to Tier V destroyers.

I am now with Hatsuharu and no idea how to play this ship. 6 torpedos with 10.0 km but 5.9 knots, would be better to desmount the upgrade and play it with 6.0 km torpedos and 63 knots?

If it was easy, it wouldn't be "fun 'n engaging" … If you want to relax and read a book while you play, go with a BB :)

Try the German jousting DDs T2 and T4 - lots of fun along with derski until you want to move up to higher tiers IJN

Yes, you die often and when things go bad they go bad very quickly with very little hope of recovery. 

To those who are about to die - I salute you o7

Edited by Commander_367
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41 minutes ago, Mister_Rawr said:

 

Your guns are also very capable in IJN DDs.  Oftentimes people will ignore them almost completely, but they are actually (usually) hard hitting.  Hatsuharu's aren't fantastic, no, but they will easily finish an enemy DD or cruiser on low health.  They are not rapid-firing weapons, but they are accurate and have very good ballistics.  One of my Kamikaze Kraken games had 4 gun kills.  Don't be afraid to use them when the opportunity presents itself to focus a target while avoiding counter fire from other units.

-R

I'm not so sure that I'd say that IJN (torp boat) DD guns are "very capable".  That's a bit broad for my taste.  Their guns do hit hard and have good shell arcs.  But their turrets turn slowly and their reload times aren't great.  Not as bad (the reload times, that is) as I seem to remember them (rightly or wrongly).  But when I think about the quality of guns, I factor in all these points, and thus, I can't say that IJN torp boat DD guns are "very capable".  They're more "situational", I'd say.  That might be the best way to put it.  They can be good for finishing off very close to dead ships.  They can be nice if you're in a situation where an enemy BBs main guns are aimed the other way (presumably engaging one of your team's BBs) and there are no other enemy ships nearby so that you can feel fairly comfortable opening fire.

But I will also often hold my fire if I get spotted by an enemy, as long as I feel that I have a good chance of breaking contact and escaping back into stealth.  The last thing I want to do in that situation is increase my concealment range by firing my guns.  OTOH, if I don't see escape as an option, then I'll open fire and do what damage I can before I go down.

Overall, I think that the key is situational awareness.  Understand when a good time to use or not use your guns is.  And maintain good situational awareness to recognize when one of those times presents itself.

Edited by Crucis
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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Not as bad as I seem to remember them (rightly or wrongly).

I usually chalk this up to having more experience with the game ballistics in general.

4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

But I will also often hold my fire if I get spotted by an enemy, as long as I feel that I have a good chance of breaking contact and escaping back into stealth.  The last thing I want to do in that situation is increase my concealment range by firing my guns.  OTOH, if I don't see escape as an option, then I'll open fire and do what damage I can before I go down.

Absolutely agree, being spotted is not and should not be a cue to open fire unless you're having one of those "whites of their eyes" last stand moments.  Choosing where and when to be spotted can also be used to an advantage in faster destroyers.  Or the slower ones too, I guess, but there's a heap more risk involved there.

-R

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13 minutes ago, Mister_Rawr said:

I usually chalk this up to having more experience with the game ballistics in general.

Absolutely agree, being spotted is not and should not be a cue to open fire unless you're having one of those "whites of their eyes" last stand moments.  Choosing where and when to be spotted can also be used to an advantage in faster destroyers.  Or the slower ones too, I guess, but there's a heap more risk involved there.

-R

Yep. lots of good advice in this thread ...

The good news is he will have a choice of gunboats and stealth torpedo with the IJN line soon all the way up to T10, so he won't have to choose or start over from scratch

DDs aren't the nightmare some make it out to be, even with radar :)

OK, maybe the occasional Bad Dream?

Edited by Commander_367

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1 hour ago, kgh52 said:

I gave DD's a try. They were very unforgiving. Because of their stealth DD's become priority targets for the other team.

^^^this^^^

Even when I play BB, if a DD is in range, I'm going for it.  And I don't even need to shoot accurately because it's a shotgun crap shoot anyway if he's maneuvering.  When the whole team does this...it's all about volume of fire....someone is going to connect.  If detection can be maintained and multiple enemy ships are in range...those DDs die quickly.

On the flip side, I hate it when I'm playing a radar cruiser and my team fails to put guns on a cap.  I know folks lament the radar.  But you really do need to have good team coordination to make it effective.  On the flip flip side, a good DD player knows this and can risk radar detection knowing the enemy has limited fire opportunity.  It's the game within the game...forcing the enemy to pop radar at a bad moment (for the enemy) to get it on cool down, and provide more opportunities. 

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

I don't mean to offend, but you couldn't have picked a worse DD to start with than Hatsuharu. She is very unforgiving, basically a Fubuki that  gave up a torpedo launcher for a bit better concealment. My opinion is to leave her for now and grind the Fubuki instead if you are after IJN DDs. Then, once you got a better grasp of the class give her another shot. It is also very helpful to have a 10 point captain with Concealment Expert in most DDs you will play.

I actually have unreal stats in the new Hatsuharu when I was play it. The trick with her is always keeping a set of torps up unless you have a good ambush on a BB.

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1 hour ago, Avrova1904 said:

Sometimes is really hard to stand even 3 minutes, the problem comes when I am spotted, then, my game is almost finished. I noticed that the very little mistake is enough reason to finish the game. I find myself better with battleships since I can stand more time and don't require so many skills

You have discovered one of the truths of DD playing; DDs require skill while any old potato can play a BB. FYI, it does NOT get better at higher tiers, where radar, hydro, and more devastating guns await you.

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I am now thinking about coming back to earlier destroyers to learn the basics. I did enjoy low tier destroyers and I am not bad at all with them. I miss the times of playing Umikaze, Wakatake and Isokaze, no radars, slow ships and unexperienced enemy players. I find Hatsuharu hard to play with just two 2x3 torpedo launchers, but I understood is better to keep torpedos with 10 km range, I will need to practice more with this ship. The concealment issue is something that is happening to me when I am close to an island and I find a destroyer or cruiser, if I find a cruiser unexpectedly, this is a 100% dead.

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And I don't want to be a troll in any way, I want to talk seriously, but I am pretty sure destroyers are the hardest ships to play, if not, explain me why so many people playing destroyers are deleted in a matter of 2/3 minutes, I had games where I was the only destroyer alive and the rest were dead, I go even further, most destroyer players are deleted in the first 5 minutes and are usually the first type of ships to end first. Probably this kind of ship requires a skilled player and a slower learning curve in comparison with the rest of the ships.

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Stick with the longer range on your torpedoes. As others have said, the trick is to remain unseen, making use of your torpedoes. Not always an easy task, and now more challenging than ever. IJN guns are (imo) very accurate, but I recommend using them only when you are reasonably sure your volley will finish off your target. Because once you fire, your detection range expands out to your gun range for 20 seconds, which can be plenty of time for the red team to put lots of holes in your ship. Adrenaline Rush skill will help a little, but not enough, imo. And Adrenaline Rush does nothing about the abysmally slow turret traverse. Picking a fight with pretty much any other DD head to head in a Hatsuharu will generally not have good results.

Having said all that, landing torpedoes is a challenge that requires a great deal of intuition and the ability to coalesce what you see, what is on the mini-map, and what your instincts are telling you into a firing solution in only seconds. And even when you do that, quite often you will fire torpedoes into an area where a spotter plane or hydroacoustic search will allow the red team to see them well in advance of their being a real threat. While I know many disagree, claiming that playing a DD is as simple as launching a wall of torpedoes and waiting for the next kill, I believe success in a DD, particularly a torpedo boat, to be the greatest challenge I have had in this game.

Respects,

Am

Edited by Amracil

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Dear OP... go watch you tube destroyer play commentary.  They'll be a a lot you can pick up from it, also find the top DD games  (for the current game version) at warship replays and watch them.

DD Are likely the hardest class to play.  You really do want to know what all the other ships in the game have or a least a good appreciation so study ships all ships.   Know what they can do so you can take advantage of it when they are allies, and when they are enemies.   Pay attention to everything going on around you.  Pay attention to terrain.  Know which island you can to get to fastest to get behind and shelter from the steel rain is a good thing.  (never stay such places... you don't want to be there when the bus arrives!).   Your armor for that ship is not being shot at if you can help it., yet as fragile as thay are, DD's and the sacrifices they make can be the difference between winning a match and loosing it.

 

 Just had my first 6 kill Kraken last night in a tier IX Yugumo.  I watched my own replay a couple times over to self check  (good DD players do this) and yep, I got lucky and half the opposing team got unlucky, and got lazy and that's why they got sunk.  Ok course my own team left something to be desired or I wouldn't have bagged 6 kills!.  One thing to always remember is to get a kraken both teams kinda have ta stink!  It's one of those inconvenient truths you hear about that no one likes to really talk about.  It's taken me all of two years of play to get this good.  So be aware it may take awhile.   BUt once you do get there, it'll be a nice feeling.  Enjoy!

Just remember that Destroyer drivers don't have lives, they have half lives so make the best of it while ya got it and go make some havoc and chaos!

 

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A thing to note about IJN Torps: You have to pray your target is a potato, or have some very solid luck in predicting their movements.

Never launch torps at maximum range, unless the gap between you and your target is closing.

Hatsuharu is a finicky boat to play, but also offers some interesting play as well. The upgraded hull loses a gun bringing her down to 4 guns as opposed to 5 guns of the stock hull. Torpedoes gain range but loses speed. Sticking with stock hull, you're stuck with stock torpedoes, but you have that 5th gun. Both hulls, when played properly, can do some serious damage.

Stick with Hatsuharu or free experience your way past her. Shiratsuyu and Akizuki are currently the bread and butter of the line anyway. Forget the smoke, and play Shiratsuyu with TBR. I personally don't like that style of play, but Shira is a very aggressive torpedo boat with or without TBR, more so with. Even Kagero and Yugumo can't compare.

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5 minutes ago, Avrova1904 said:

And I don't want to be a troll in any way, I want to talk seriously, but I am pretty sure destroyers are the hardest ships to play, if not, explain me why so many people playing destroyers are deleted in a matter of 2/3 minutes, I had games where I was the only destroyer alive and the rest were dead, I go even further, most destroyer players are deleted in the first 5 minutes and are usually the first type of ships to end first. Probably this kind of ship requires a skilled player and a slower learning curve in comparison with the rest of the ships.

Most see the DD's primary role as Capping. This is why so many die in the first 5 minutes of a match. A DD's main role IMO is spotting, IJN dd's more so than KM or Russian.  Good DD play is patience, rushing into a cap is death usually. Always have a way out of any situation. Do not get tunnel vision on some big fat juicy BB. That is when the enemy DD or CA will surprise you and your in trouble.  

The IJN torps being big and easily spotted makes the "surprise attack" harder with them. KM has the stealth torps but shorter range and lower damage. US is the middle ground on the torps and Russian are short legged but hit fairly hard.  No one will argue that the IJN at low to mid tiers have the worst guns.(poor ROF, Poor traverse speed) USN and Russian Guns are about equal save the arcs, USN has high arcs the longer the range. KM have good guns, but their HE is weak.IJN are the Stealth masters. With USN next followed closely by KM and Russian have the worst stealth. Each nations DD's are Different and playstyle can be Drastically different. (IJN VS Russian for example)

As others have suggested, watch some you tube video's on DD play. Each Nation has a different playstyle. Finding out which one is right for you is the key. 

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As others have mentioned, patience is the key with DD play. This can be incredibly frustrating, especially when red ships turn broadside to you and all you  really want to do is blaze your guns. The Hatsuharu is part of the more gun-oriented IJN line, and may be less enjoyable because IJN guns aren't that great (Akizuki at T8 aside). 

  • US: a brawler that can bully caps. Torpedoes are decent but can have long reloads. Will get out-spotted by IJN DDs. Choose US DDs if you want to beat up on other DDs.
  • Japanese: generally rely on stealth and torpedoes. The torpedoes are spotted from space, so you have to plan carefully. The line splits between more torpedo-focused and more gun focused at T6. Choose IJN DDs if you want to be sneaky and torp BBs.
  • Russian: speedy gunboats. Pretty much the only DD line in which you forgo taking Concealment at Tier 10. Your captain skills focus on gun range and ROF. Choose Russian DDs if you want to pew-pew and annoy other ships at a distance, and aren't as concerned with capping. You will get complaints for not rushing into caps, but since you are spotted from 8km+ you have to get used to ignoring the whining.
  • German: lots of folks consider these to be the most balanced. They are pretty good at most things, and tend to have short torpedo cool downs. Not as stealthy as IJN, as fast as Russian, or as much a brawler as US DDs. Higher tiers have access to hydro, which allow you to contest caps.
  • Pan-Asia: generally torp-focused. The big thing with these DDs is that the torps are deep water torps (DWT), which cannot damage other DDs. As such, these DDs aren't for cap bullying. You can swap out smoke generator with radar starting at TIer 8.

The UK line is just coming out, so I can't say much about them. 

I have Tier 9/10 for each of the countries. I've enjoyed the IJN DDs the most because I like sneaking around and spotting for my team. The German DDs have been the toughest for me, mostly because the guns can be wonky. 

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1 hour ago, Avrova1904 said:

And I don't want to be a troll in any way, I want to talk seriously, but I am pretty sure destroyers are the hardest ships to play, if not, explain me why so many people playing destroyers are deleted in a matter of 2/3 minutes, I had games where I was the only destroyer alive and the rest were dead, I go even further, most destroyer players are deleted in the first 5 minutes and are usually the first type of ships to end first. Probably this kind of ship requires a skilled player and a slower learning curve in comparison with the rest of the ships.

OK, I'll give it a shot.  DDs can be difficult to play, but they're not, for the most part, THAT difficult to play.

Some DD players just aren't that good or they have bad DD game play instincts. Some DD players just cannot grasp that playing stealthy DD requires patience and caution.  But some players just are not patience or cautious.  Some are overly aggressive and their game play instincts lean towards aggressiveness rather than caution.  But IMO that's the wrong way to play a DD if you want to survive as long as possible and have an impact on the battle as long as possible.  These aggressive instincts can include things like instinctively opening fire with your guns the instant you're spotted, rather than trying to break contact and get unspotted.  Instantly opening fire only makes it more difficult to break contact and get unspotted.

Some DD players seem to think that they absolutely have to fight to the death for that cap early in the game, when what they should really do is engage the enemy DD on cap if you have some sort of advantage or not engage that enemy DD but keep him spotted if that's possible so that friendly heavies can engage him and/or drop torps on that enemy DD.  Or find a safe spot and sit on the cap without being spotted to keep the enemy from taking the cap. 

In short, early in a battle, taking a cap is NOT worth losing your ship over.  Your team can always come back later and take the cap from the enemy.  Sometimes, it's smarter to make sure that the enemy can't take the cap than it is to take it yourself in the face of difficult odds.  And it can be the better strategic decision to just keep the cap uncaptured while your team is engaging the enemy team's ships that are in the vicinity of said cap to either sink them or force them to retreat from the cap, at which time you can then take the cap without any opposition.

A lot of good DD play isn't about doing damage.  A lot of it's about doing the little things like spotting enemy ships and torpedoes, contending for caps, counter DD play (even when not near a cap), screening your team's heavies, sometimes laying smoke for friendly cruisers who can make use of it.  Of course, many of these things don't show up on the after action report.  But if they can contribute to a win, then they're worth doing.

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4 hours ago, Avrova1904 said:

I am trying with japanese destroyers. Sometimes is really hard to stand even 3 minutes, the problem comes when I am spotted, then, my game is almost finished. I noticed that the very little mistake is enough reason to finish the game. I find myself better with battleships since I can stand more time and don't require so many skills. I guess that to have some success with destroyers a practice of more than 1 year is a must. I am having trouble mainly with higher tier japanese destroyers. Up to Tier V I enjoy the game and I can even contribute in a possitive way. That's the reason I am thinking about sticking to Tier V destroyers.

I am now with Hatsuharu and no idea how to play this ship. 6 torpedos with 10.0 km but 5.9 knots, would be better to desmount the upgrade and play it with 6.0 km torpedos and 63 knots?

DD's are a hard class to do well at. It requires a lot of awareness and knowledge of the map that you are on. Unfortunately, the getting spotted and immeadiately getting killed is not gonna change as you go up the tiers. Japanese dds are more of the stay away from your detect and throw torps every time they are ready. Think to use them more for crowd control and forcing the enemy away from areas, if that means they take a torp or two then they will have less hit points to do so with.

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