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zubalkabir

13.8 km gun range on Daring. Why?

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I was browsing through the Wiki entries for British DDs and noticed Daring at tier X has 13.8 km range on its guns.  But with shell velocity of 746 m/s you are not likely to hit anything beyond maybe 10 km.  The guns can have a reload time below 2 seconds if you optimize for that, so I guess you could just spam rounds downrange until you get some hits.  But engagement range for DDs tends to be below 10 km most of the time anyway, so all this accomplishes is to effectively give enemy BBs and CAs/CLs hanging outside the cap free 13.8 km radar without having to burn a consumable.

Edit:  Well, I suppose your target would spot you anyway, since you are unlikely to fire at something outside your range.   But even if you kill the target with one or two salvos, you are still going to be spotted for quite a while.

Edited by zubalkabir

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spec IFHE, pop smoke, spam he at everything in range, sit back and watch those dmg numbers rack up. Even AP should give some interesting results, given its high arc will be effective vs bb/ca superstructures.
a very well known WG approach, begun with Perth, and many since.

 

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1 hour ago, DarthZeppelin said:

spec IFHE, pop smoke, spam he at everything in range, sit back and watch those dmg numbers rack up. Even AP should give some interesting results, given its high arc will be effective vs bb/ca superstructures.
a very well known WG approach, begun with Perth, and many since.

 

Dzepp, I've been an advocate for quite a while for DDs that have floaty shells using their AP at range vs BBs, because those same floaty arcs seem to bring those AP shells down onto softer armor, causing more penetrations than you can get out of HE.  Not so sure about IFHE-enhanced HE, but regardless, it's nice when you feel lucky to get maybe 1 or 2 penetrating hits with HE to suddenly start getting multiple AP pens and start doing 1500 or more damage with your DD's floaty AP volleys.

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1 hour ago, zubalkabir said:

I was browsing through the Wiki entries for British DDs and noticed Daring at tier X has 13.8 km range on its guns.  But with shell velocity of 746 m/s you are not likely to hit anything beyond maybe 10 km.  The guns can have a reload time below 2 seconds if you optimize for that, so I guess you could just spam rounds downrange until you get some hits.  But engagement range for DDs tends to be below 10 km most of the time anyway, so all this accomplishes is to effectively give enemy BBs and CAs/CLs hanging outside the cap free 13.8 km radar without having to burn a consumable.

Edit:  Well, I suppose your target would spot you anyway, since you are unlikely to fire at something.   But even if you kill the target with one or two salvos, you are still going to be spotted for quite a while.

A big downside to having that much range is that getting out of gun range during the gun bloom time period becomes that much more difficult.  And even more so when you're  talking about an RN DD with low speed and no speed boost.

(Gawd, how I hate molasses slow gunboat DDs.)

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Dzepp, I've been an advocate for quite a while for DDs that have floaty shells using their AP at range vs BBs, because those same floaty arcs seem to bring those AP shells down onto softer armor, causing more penetrations than you can get out of HE.  Not so sure about IFHE-enhanced HE, but regardless, it's nice when you feel lucky to get maybe 1 or 2 penetrating hits with HE to suddenly start getting multiple AP pens and start doing 1500 or more damage with your DD's floaty AP volleys.

I plagiarized Flamu's video on Daring, for that tac. But being a Perth/Aigle and Minotaur fan myself.. it fits.

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1 minute ago, DarthZeppelin said:

I plagiarized Flamu's video on Daring, for that tac. But being a Perth/Aigle and Minotaur fan myself.. it fits.

I use that tactic with USN DD guns (and high tier PA DDs that are really just ISN DDs with DWTs).  It can also work with the Akizuki or the Atlanta.  Pretty much any ship with slow, floaty DD gun shells.  The thing is that a lot of DD players almost never use their AP, particularly against BBs.  Oh, maybe some RU DD players do, and occasionally some German DD players.  But AP gets overlooked a lot with other nations' DDs.

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The Daring's shell flight time isn't as bad as I'd thought it might be, the MV is low but it has a heavy shell.

For comparison, flight times to 10km:

Khabarovsk - 5.53s
Worcester - 6.58s
Blyskawica - 6.86s
Z-52 - 6.75s
Cleveland - 7.06s
Akizuki - 7.32s
Daring - 7.89s
Shimakaze 7.97s
Gearing - 9.25s

Daring isn't terrible, but is trying to leverage a ship with inferior flight times to the rather famed Cleveland really worth it? Daring has 244,800 HE DPM, Worcester has 344,256 HE DPM and better arcs, and with IFHE penetrates battleship hulls which Daring doesn't. I think playing as a HE spammer at range will be ultimately unproductive.

As for the 'why' WG allegedly calculate main battery range based on height of the main director, which could be high on Daring (she's rather tall) but, then again she has very good stealth so...

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A few things.

1) with the change making any sudden spotting gap kill gun bloom immediately (easy with RNDD smoke in many cases), it's not as laborious as it was with the fixed 20 second window.

2) the slow shell time is sometimes less relevant when you catch larger ships in compromised positions (tactical beaching, torp dodging BBs slowing aggressively, that Yamato that sits in reverse at 23km from your BBs sniping in the open).  Having the range gives you options that allow you to switch targets quickly with your fast rotating guns can reach but torps can't.  RNDDs are opportunistic, the range allows some additional opportunities.

3) the ship is slow.  Effective range on escaping targets is less than advertised range (they will move past the shell).  13.8 makes it comfortable to shoot out to say 12.5 even when the slow shell time when able.  That means no reason to take any range mods or skills.  If it was say 10.8, you'd be hard pressed to shell anything past 10 running from you and that is the range it stars to get restrictive.

 

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On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:56 PM, mofton said:

As for the 'why' WG allegedly calculate main battery range based on height of the main director, which could be high on Daring (she's rather tall) but, then again she has very good stealth so...

Tech plays a pretty big role in that. Daring is very new(and UK FCS was very good), so she has a longer range than most ships would with her profile.

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2 hours ago, Aetreus said:

Tech plays a pretty big role in that. Daring is very new(and UK FCS was very good), so she has a longer range than most ships would with her profile.

I guess it's a moot point as the range has been reduced down to 12.8km anyway.

Apparently a technological downgrade, re-assessment of height, or just WG being WG.

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12 minutes ago, mofton said:

I guess it's a moot point as the range has been reduced down to 12.8km anyway.

Apparently a technological downgrade, re-assessment of height, or just WG being WG.

Yeah, ships get shuffled around for balance reasons all the time. UK BB originally had longer ranges as well IIRC.

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2 hours ago, Aetreus said:

Yeah, ships get shuffled around for balance reasons all the time. UK BB originally had longer ranges as well IIRC.

I think Conq did, maybe not the others.

 

The more numbers get fudged around the more I pay less attention to the core 'formula' ships like Colorado, Pensacola and now Haida/Cossack in particular are much more balance than 'history'.

 

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