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bigbearbeear

Narai: Killing the King

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Been playing Narai and is generally ok but I find myself struggling a little if I peel off to try and kill the Lexinton CV named King.  It has a destroyer and cruiser escort and what felt like a endless supply of torpedo and dive bombers; all of which will focus on you if you approach its exit route.

What's your strategy for dealing with King?  I tried a variety of cruisers without good results, maybe use a battleship?

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On 8/2/2018 at 3:03 PM, bigbearbeear said:

Been playing Narai and is generally ok but I find myself struggling a little if I peel off to try and kill the Lexinton CV named King.  It has a destroyer and cruiser escort and what felt like a endless supply of torpedo and dive bombers; all of which will focus on you if you approach its exit route.

What's your strategy for dealing with King?  I tried a variety of cruisers without good results, maybe use a battleship?

That route is the hardest one out of the 3 general routes.  You're dodging, you're weaving, you're shooting.  Everything else is straight forward and easy compared to this.  Route 1 is what I do.  I sail up to the mouth of the channel at around D9 and await.  I don't enter the channel because you'll get shot at by the fort further south and other ships spawning in the region of H10 and below.  Approach, ambush the Nicholas when it comes out, and then work Lexington over.  Take out the Phoenix if you can with some AP if you can because she takes a toll on you, as well as sometimes send torpedoes your way.  But just remember, Lexington is the primary target, and if it's looking bad, try to put Lexington down before you die.

 

How you fight here depends on the ship you bring to this fight.  If you do take a big, fast BB like Scharnhorst, Gneisenau here, do understand that the further into the region of D10 you go into, your room to maneuver drastically shrinks and you may get beached by the island at C10 or losing your speed by running into the border.

 

Route 2 is an alternate branch, something I have not done but thought about.  The point is to ambush the Lexington at B10 as it tries to sail to A10.  I'm thinking a torpedo heavy ship can do good work in an ambush.  However, I'd expect Phoenix and Nicholas to come out and find you as they enter D9 and go westward to attack your team transports.  You'll also still be spotted by the planes Lexington sends.

Edit:  Route 3 is another possibility, described in my later post here.

 

EjcsLoJ.jpg

You need to be moving to the objective area to intercept the CV.  Don't be sitting there trying to camp a spot in C5 or something, and fire at the enemy ships in the middle.  Time is ticking and you need to be in position for when Lexington moves north to kill it ASAP before the bombers take their toll in the team and transports.

You need to preserve your HP as much as possible because you're going to need it.  This is absolutely paramount if you are taking a ship that has no Repair Party access.  Atlanta's great for this job, but if she's taking needless damage before getting to Lexington, she's got an even tougher job.  By all means, take some potshots to help the middle team as you travel the route, but don't make yourself an enticing target, especially for the Missouri as it exits the channel from F8.  Sometimes Missouri will take note of you if you make yourself known and fire shells at you.  If you are in a Cruiser, this is bad.

 

There's lots of good ships for this route.

Fiji does well here as the RN CL AP does wonders against Nicholas, Phoenix, and the CV in these short ranges.  You also got Repair Party.  You also got torps as a weapon of opportunity.

Atlanta for her AA, torpedoes, fast firing guns.  However, no Repair Party.  You'll be maneuvering heavily here, so those lightning fast traversing guns will be immensely useful.

Helena for firepower, so-so AA with Defensive Fire (better than Boise / NdJ).  No Repair Party.

Boise / NdJ for firepower.  Their AA is actually very sub-par but they at least have Defensive Fire and most of all, Repair Party.

 

The fast sailing BBs like Gneisenau, Scharnhorst are good choices.  Secondary Spec makes them work the targets very quickly in these short ranges, as well as torpedoes.  AA Gneisenau is also a valid choice as you'll be swatting lots of planes.

 

I have not tried a DD for this route myself, though I've seen one or two pull it off with such ships.  Leningrad and Mahan were the ones used in such a job.  The DD is also fast enough to sail with the middle group and then peel off northeast to catch the CV after Missouri is dealt with (I've had Division DDs do this).

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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50 minutes ago, bigbearbeear said:

Been playing Narai and is generally ok but I find myself struggling a little if I peel off to try and kill the Lexinton CV named King.  It has a destroyer and cruiser escort and what felt like a endless supply of torpedo and dive bombers; all of which will focus on you if you approach its exit route.

What's your strategy for dealing with King?  I tried a variety of cruisers without good results, maybe use a battleship?

 

best chance to take it out is when it first appears. before it heads to the north of the map. good teams delete it before it leaves the area.

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28 minutes ago, SinisterSe7en said:

best chance to take it out is when it first appears. before it heads to the north of the map. good teams delete it before it leaves the area.

I've only managed this partially, I was in the Ashitaka and going up the middle and King was spotted.  I managed an "over the hill" shot salvo and managed to wipe out half its hp but it moved before my guns reload and was soon out of my line of sight unfortunately.

How does a good team kill it?  Rush the middle and unload everything at it?  I suppose with 2 or 3 BBs driven by good captains you can nail it quickly.  My Ashitaka alone only managed 1 good salvo.

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50 minutes ago, bigbearbeear said:

I've only managed this partially, I was in the Ashitaka and going up the middle and King was spotted.  I managed an "over the hill" shot salvo and managed to wipe out half its hp but it moved before my guns reload and was soon out of my line of sight unfortunately.

How does a good team kill it?  Rush the middle and unload everything at it?  I suppose with 2 or 3 BBs driven by good captains you can nail it quickly.  My Ashitaka alone only managed 1 good salvo.

:Smile_great:If you have enuff friends to divison up with and can bring in at least two Atlantas  with good drivers it's easy enuff:Smile_honoring:

Edited by shadowsrmine

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34 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Route 1 is what I do.  I sail up to the mouth of the channel at around D9 and await.  I don't enter the channel because you'll get shot at by the fort further south and other ships spawning in the region of H10 and below.  Approach, ambush the Nicholas when it comes out, and then work Lexington over.  Take out the Phoenix if you can with some AP if you can because she takes a toll on you, as well as sometimes send torpedoes your way.  But just remember, Lexington is the primary target, and if it's looking bad, try to put Lexington down before you die.

Route 2 is an alternate branch, something I have not done but thought about.  The point is to ambush the Lexington at B10 as it tries to sail to A10.  I'm thinking a torpedo heavy ship can do good work in an ambush.  However, I'd expect Phoenix and Nicholas to come out and find you as they enter D9 and go westward to attack your team transports.  You'll also still be spotted by the planes Lexington sends.

 

Good post man, appreciate it.  Route 2 was what I had been using and yes, the Nicholas will appear and spot you immediately.  The Phoenix will follow it, and then the Lexington will send ALL its planes at you.  Not a very fun situation, especially when you're alone because everyone else went to kill and farm the transport.

I'll try Route 1 next time, will also try a Fiji.  Mine has a perm camo on it and I used it successfully if I went the transport side but I'll try Route 1 and see what happens.

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Personally I've found that waiting until the transports are at E5 is a good time.  MO is the biggest issue in the Op and if she's not taken out quickly, worst case scenario she takes out two of your cruisers AND a transport by ramming.  You want her dealt with first before even thinking about King.  If you can take MO out quickly enough, you'll be primed to nip King before she starts to move N, and it takes her a small amount of time to get behind the main island.  Further more, if you move quickly enough the Nicholas will push from inside the base rather than going all the way around the N side of the island.  This makes it much easier to protect your transports and keep them safe since she's not going to come from the N and flank torp them.  The other plus is that if King does manage to get behind the island, it won't be much of a problem to get her and it will just be her and Phoenix.  Once you get a clear line on King again, Phoenix sits broadside for AGES before she finally moves to intercept you, so she should be a 1-3 salvo (depending on Mistress RNG's mood) kill leaving King easy prey.

 

59 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

wt2GOID.jpg

 

You are showing an issue I am seeing a lot of, BB after transports.  NO BB should go anywhere towards the transports, and instead should be focusing on protecting yours, tanking/dealing with MO, and ideally taking point into the base.  It appears to have taken your team a good while to deal with MO, something that would gone a LOT smoother had your CO been with the convoy instead of chasing transports.

 

Most of the 5 star's I've gotten involved going after King AFTER MO was dealt with, though in a couple of them one or two used the tactic you use.  However, they went down the C line, not the B line.

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Must be doing better than me. 4 attempts 4 flat out fail teams. Cant even kill half the ships before everyone dies because they keep going broadside to the AI or ramming torpedoes. Makes the harder raptor rescue look noob friendly.

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I had an earlier run today showcasing the need to have good HP before battling Lexington and her escorts.

 

We had an Atlanta that was sailing with and supporting the middle group.  When the Missouri was finally dealt with, Atlanta said he was going to try to get the CV.  But I noted he was in bad shape already with half his HP gone.  He sailed from E7 towards D8 to intercept the CV but ran into both Phoenix and Nicholas around the corner.  With only half his HP he didn't live long against that short ranged fight.  I had to turn my Scharnhorst around from inside the bay to plug the gap and keep Nicholas and Phoenix from wrecking our transports.  We had to deal with Lexington's bombers for the rest of the run, AA wasn't good enough.

 

Anyways, you need to get to the fight with the CV and her escorts and be as in high HP as you can.  You will take damage and even with an AA Boat, you will take some bomb / torpedo bomber hits, on top of the hits Nicholas and Phoenix will land on you.  This also includes their surface launched torps.  You go to this fight battered, you'll need to pull off some very savvy play to come out with the enemy CV dead.

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1 hour ago, SinisterSe7en said:

 

best chance to take it out is when it first appears. before it heads to the north of the map. good teams delete it before it leaves the area.

Yep, unless your team is chicken you can normally kill it before it makes it behind the islands.

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8 minutes ago, Volron said:

You are showing an issue I am seeing a lot of, BB after transports.  NO BB should go anywhere towards the transports, and instead should be focusing on protecting yours, tanking/dealing with MO, and ideally taking point into the base.  It appears to have taken your team a good while to deal with MO, something that would gone a LOT smoother had your CO been with the convoy instead of chasing transports.

 

Most of the 5 star's I've gotten involved going after King AFTER MO was dealt with, though in a couple of them one or two used the tactic you use.  However, they went down the C line, not the B line.

Brother, if you only knew how much I've been seeing 3 ships of the team trying to race and kill the transports themselves, leaving everything else to go to hell.  One match today they were even arguing with each other about kill stealing transports.

P5Vlsj4.jpg

I'm at a point right now where I am highly reluctant to do the south enemy transport route even though I'm closest to it.  I fear that if I go that way, more ships will follow me and stripping the middle group of much needed firepower.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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The last 5* game I had on Narai, I was using the King George V while firing AP. Those broadsides at close range made quick work of the cruisers (at least 3 one-shot kills). When the King was spotted I took off a third of his hp with one salvo, then chased him down around the island after dealing with the enemy Missouri. I shot him again, reduced him to under 50% hp, smacked his cruiser escort out of the way with another salvo, then finished him off with multiple citadel penetrations at close range. The mobility, firepower and versatility of the KGV does quite well, even though the AA is lacking.

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14 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Brother, if you only knew how much I've been seeing 3 ships of the team trying to race and kill the transports themselves, leaving everything else to go to hell.  One match today they were even arguing with each other about kill stealing transports.

P5Vlsj4.jpg

I'm at a point right now where I am highly reluctant to do the south enemy transport route even though I'm closest to it.  I fear that if I go that way, more ships will follow me and stripping the middle group of much needed firepower.

We would be millionaires for every dime a match that had 2+ ships chasing transports. :Smile_hiding:

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So, fooling around with this operation some more in dealing with the CV route up north is a 3rd way of doing it.

EjcsLoJ.jpg

Route 3.  You basically stay and fight with the middle group until Missouri is dealt with then peel off, go for the CV and her escorts.  Be ready to fight Phoenix and / or Nicholas where you see the red "3" in this image, i.e. be ready to do Torpedo Beats.  Usually Nicholas and Phoenix will sail that direction then turn south to attack your transports if nothing stops them after Lexington gets to around D10.

 

This route is good if your ship is fast.  Even the fast sailing BBs like Gneisenau, Scharnhorst can pull this off.  A very nice point with this is that it's another ship supporting the middle effort, at least until Missouri is destroyed and it's time to go after the CV.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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19 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

EjcsLoJ.jpg

Route 3.  You basically stay and fight with the middle group until Missouri is dealt with then peel off, go for the CV and her escorts.  Be ready to fight Phoenix and / or Nicholas where you see the red "3" in this image, i.e. be ready to do Torpedo Beats.  Usually Nicholas and Phoenix will sail that direction then turn south to attack your transports if nothing stops them after Lexington gets to around D10.

I've been using this route 3 also, so far ok for sinking King but surviving after that is another matter.  I've found good success with Atlanta, Fiji, Scharhorst, Lyon and Hood is ok too but I usually end up eating torps from the Phoenix after killing King when driving BBs.

New Orleans is not bad too, its AP shells can sink the Phoenix with a single salvo if timed right, and if you spec for AA and put on AA signal, does an ok job of shooting down some fighters (some will get through so you'll be bombed and have to dodge torps).

I have also changed the loadout for my Atlanta and New Orleans, focusing on AA and used AA signals, seems to work much better.  I have noticed that most of my sinking is due to torps from planes or combined with torps from other bot ships.  With a heavy AA focus you can kill lots of planes, making it much easier to dodge torps and bombs.

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Having your own CV on the team can help matter a little. BBs following the liberty ships can get shots at it at some points if its lit up. Additionally torp bombing kings escorts after she sinks can help anyone who goes after her get back safe.

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On 8/2/2018 at 3:03 PM, bigbearbeear said:

Been playing Narai and is generally ok but I find myself struggling a little if I peel off to try and kill the Lexinton CV named King.  It has a destroyer and cruiser escort and what felt like a endless supply of torpedo and dive bombers; all of which will focus on you if you approach its exit route.

What's your strategy for dealing with King?  I tried a variety of cruisers without good results, maybe use a battleship?

Done it in Lyon, Atlanta, KGV. Someone needs to put hits on it as it exits the harbor. In Atlanta it was easier than I thought with manual AA + AA spec + DFAA. The major problem with killing the CV is that whatever ship(s) do it are out of the battle for so long. 

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I find that it is rather doable to kill King right in the harbor if you have 2-3 decent shot BBs that are in the right position to fire upon it the moment is gets spotted while stationary. King gets spotted around 16km so any BB within that range should be able to land hits on King as it tries to make its escape and gets killed off early without having the need to send a ship around the large island and just deal with the King escorts as they try to scurry around.

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Done it in Lyon, Atlanta, KGV. Someone needs to put hits on it as it exits the harbor. In Atlanta it was easier than I thought with manual AA + AA spec + DFAA. The major problem with killing the CV is that whatever ship(s) do it are out of the battle for so long. 

Even then, for a good number of those doing it, it's a 1-way ticket.  But no matter what they gotta ensure Lexington goes down.  Very important to make life easier for the team in the harbor, especially if the team is composed of poor AA ships.

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After torping the MO with my Scharn I fired over the small land mass and took off half of King's health. Then launched a spotter and finished her. First five star win since the buff. Also, we had two cruisers chasing the transports but my fellow Battleship captains all entered the bay and held on long enough to get the five stars. 

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