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Darkmouse24

When the Red Team has no radar

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Looking at the teams I see the red team has no radar so I play very aggressively knowing the only way I'll get spotted is if an enemy dd gets close then I can just smoke up and hydro.

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I've never been that lucky in recent memory... my Z-52 or Gearing would be so much fun in that match! 

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Thing of beauty ain't it. I've found I can have the same effect when I make sure the red's radar ships are dead although that can be harder said than done early on. Good job

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DDs were OP but instead of radar, maybe they should have nerfed smoke first.  The whole smoke+Radar/hydro combo is OP: see Belfast, Z-52, etc. If smoke were nerfed, hard, then radar wouldn’t be so necessary. Maybe this deserves its own thread...

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On 8/5/2018 at 5:36 PM, Florendo19 said:

Thing of beauty ain't it. I've found I can have the same effect when I make sure the red's radar ships are dead although that can be harder said than done early on. Good job

Yep, my own high score happened when the DM died early on, then a bunch of BBs needed to get around a mountain broadside to me...

Edited by n00bot

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On 8/9/2018 at 3:21 PM, n00bot said:

DDs were OP but instead of radar, maybe they should have nerfed smoke first.  The whole smoke+Radar/hydro combo is OP: see Belfast, Z-52, etc. If smoke were nerfed, hard, then radar wouldn’t be so necessary. Maybe this deserves its own thread...

Yes, lets nerf the thing that make DD what they are. Smoke/hydro was never OP. All that does it make it really hard for players to potato and eat torps while they are in their own smoke.

Smoke/radar is a Belfast/ Flint problem. Which oddly enough aren't even destroyers.

If it's not one thing it's yet another dozen other things about DD that someone somewhere wants to nerf. Radar is unnecessary in so far as it was impilmented poorly and balanced badly for what it does at the push of a button.

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FACT: I will guarantee that at least half the players on your team wouldn't realize there was no red radar if they weren't told so. :fish_palm:

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On 8/16/2018 at 5:01 AM, Vekta408 said:

Yes, lets nerf the thing that make DD what they are. Smoke/hydro was never OP. All that does it make it really hard for players to potato and eat torps while they are in their own smoke.

Smoke/radar is a Belfast/ Flint problem. Which oddly enough aren't even destroyers.

If it's not one thing it's yet another dozen other things about DD that someone somewhere wants to nerf. Radar is unnecessary in so far as it was impilmented poorly and balanced badly for what it does at the push of a button.

with experience extending back to cbt, long before either hydro or radar were introduced, as well as about 2000 battles at tier 10 (almost half of which are in dd's) i have extensive experience playing this game both in a radar-rich environment and a radar-devoid environment, and from both the stealth-reliant side and the stealth-hating side... when there is no radar dd's are overpowered which adds up to meaning that for so long as players like you refuse to permit stealth to be examined and balanced, broken mechanics like radar are necessary to even the playing field for everyone not in a dd.

 

the biggest problem here is that dd drivers like yourself can't even see how sticking up for this broken stealth mechanic is not only limiting yourself, but its hurting you.  and make no mistake, the stealth mechanics in this game are broken.  its a simplistic all-or-nothing, detected or not detected system.  it forces the devs into a corner when it comes to balancing dd's.  by refusing to let stealth be fixed or changed, you limit the ways you can be balanced.  can't buff you because when you are undetected you can run the table.  can't nerf you either though, because when you are detected you're helpless.  this reliance on stealth, born of the refusal to let it be changed by players like yourself, is the biggest thing holding dd's back and its the biggest reason dd play has such a high skill floor.

 

its also the reason broken mechanics like radar were introduced.  stealth is broken, and something needed to be introduced to counter it because if a dd can maintain stealth he is literally untouchable by the enemy.  but players like yourself refused to let the stealth mechanics be examined and balanced.  that, much as how your refusal to let stealth be fixed has pigeon-holed dd's balancing options, forced the devs to introduce radar.  one broken mechanics to counter another broken mechanic because players like yourself refused to let the root cause be looked at.

 

dd's can't be nerfed because players like you refuse to let the stealth mechanics be touched... but dd's also can't be buffed because players like you refuse to let the stealth mechanics be touched.  but, more importantly, because of players like you and your refusal to let stealth be touched, other ships have to be buffed.  first, back in cbt it was with better turn radiuses to help them avoid torps launched by dd's they couldn't see to shoot back at.  after that it was with things like the nerfs to shima's torp detection ranges.  then it was with things like making awareness a baseline skill everyone got to let them know when a dd was nearby but undetected.  finally, since none of those fixes were enough to counteract the broken nature of this game's stealth mechanics, the only thing the devs could do was introduce a broken mechanic like radar to give every non-stealth dependent ship (which is basically 75% of the ships available to players) a chance against an otherwise untouchable destroyer that can cap and attack with impunity so long as they can maintain stealth (which is very easily accomplished in a game environment devoid of any stealth-countering mechanics like radar)... you are your own worst enemy and you don't even realize it.

Edited by Shadeylark

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1 hour ago, Shadeylark said:

with experience extending back to cbt, long before either hydro or radar were introduced, as well as about 2000 battles at tier 10 (almost half of which are in dd's) i have extensive experience playing this game both in a radar-rich environment and a radar-devoid environment, and from both the stealth-reliant side and the stealth-hating side... when there is no radar dd's are overpowered which adds up to meaning that for so long as players like you refuse to permit stealth to be examined and balanced, broken mechanics like radar are necessary to even the playing field for everyone not in a dd.

 

the biggest problem here is that dd drivers like yourself can't even see how sticking up for this broken stealth mechanic is not only limiting yourself, but its hurting you.  and make no mistake, the stealth mechanics in this game are broken.  its a simplistic all-or-nothing, detected or not detected system.  it forces the devs into a corner when it comes to balancing dd's.  by refusing to let stealth be fixed or changed, you limit the ways you can be balanced.  can't buff you because when you are undetected you can run the table.  can't nerf you either though, because when you are detected you're helpless.  this reliance on stealth, born of the refusal to let it be changed by players like yourself, is the biggest thing holding dd's back and its the biggest reason dd play has such a high skill floor.

 

its also the reason broken mechanics like radar were introduced.  stealth is broken, and something needed to be introduced to counter it because if a dd can maintain stealth he is literally untouchable by the enemy.  but players like yourself refused to let the stealth mechanics be examined and balanced.  that, much as how your refusal to let stealth be fixed has pigeon-holed dd's balancing options, forced the devs to introduce radar.  one broken mechanics to counter another broken mechanic because players like yourself refused to let the root cause be looked at.

 

dd's can't be nerfed because players like you refuse to let the stealth mechanics be touched... but dd's also can't be buffed because players like you refuse to let the stealth mechanics be touched.  but, more importantly, because of players like you and your refusal to let stealth be touched, other ships have to be buffed.  first, back in cbt it was with better turn radiuses to help them avoid torps launched by dd's they couldn't see to shoot back at.  after that it was with things like the nerfs to shima's torp detection ranges.  then it was with things like making awareness a baseline skill everyone got to let them know when a dd was nearby but undetected.  finally, since none of those fixes were enough to counteract the broken nature of this game's stealth mechanics, the only thing the devs could do was introduce a broken mechanic like radar to give every non-stealth dependent ship (which is basically 75% of the ships available to players) a chance against an otherwise untouchable destroyer that can cap and attack with impunity so long as they can maintain stealth (which is very easily accomplished in a game environment devoid of any stealth-countering mechanics like radar)... you are your own worst enemy and you don't even realize it.

#1 I don't care what CBT experience you have, or how many tier 10 battles you played. I've seen new players in tier 5 that have more sense than some guy with a CBT flag and 1000's of tier 10 battles. Means nothing.

#2 If you have aaallllll this experience you should know that radar is just 1 of many things in this game that detect DD and make it a chore to land torps or whatever. Look at the IJN line. Sucks for them right. But they're limiting themselves. Mk....sure.

#3 Beating on the one thing DD play is centered around without looking at every other nonsense mechanic will just make some other class the next problem for you to say " CBT experience, X amount of T10 games"  *insert "you kind of players" comment here *

#4 You want to touch stealth mechanics? Fine...touch everything else that supposedly cause all the things you wall of text me about instead of going on and on about "players like you".

 

You really want to throw numbers around? Well according to some number no one cares about I got 6,836 battles to your 6,313 battles.  But ya know what...

shrugging-shoulders.jpg

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15 hours ago, Vekta408 said:

#1 I don't care what CBT experience you have, or how many tier 10 battles you played. I've seen new players in tier 5 that have more sense than some guy with a CBT flag and 1000's of tier 10 battles. Means nothing.

#2 If you have aaallllll this experience you should know that radar is just 1 of many things in this game that detect DD and make it a chore to land torps or whatever. Look at the IJN line. Sucks for them right. But they're limiting themselves. Mk....sure.

#3 Beating on the one thing DD play is centered around without looking at every other nonsense mechanic will just make some other class the next problem for you to say " CBT experience, X amount of T10 games"  *insert "you kind of players" comment here *

#4 You want to touch stealth mechanics? Fine...touch everything else that supposedly cause all the things you wall of text me about instead of going on and on about "players like you".

 

You really want to throw numbers around? Well according to some number no one cares about I got 6,836 battles to your 6,313 battles.  But ya know what...

shrugging-shoulders.jpg

Excellent use of words to not present any actual counterargument.

 

Nothing in anything you said there refutes my core points that 1) stealth is a broken mechanic that makes dds gods when undetected and helpless when detected, 2) because stealth is broken and dds are built around stealth dds can't be buffed or nerfed, 3) even tho dds can't be balanced because of their reliance on a broken mechanic, other ships can be, 4) radar and hydro are the only counters to stealth that don't rely on the dd [edited]up and wandering into detection range.

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1 hour ago, Shadeylark said:

Excellent use of words to not present any actual counterargument.

 

Nothing in anything you said there refutes my core points that 1) stealth is a broken mechanic that makes dds gods when undetected and helpless when detected, 2) because stealth is broken and dds are built around stealth dds can't be buffed or nerfed, 3) even tho dds can't be balanced because of their reliance on a broken mechanic, other ships can be, 4) radar and hydro are the only counters to stealth that don't rely on the dd [edited]up and wandering into detection range.

neither did yours

All you did was talk about how much CBT and 1000's of T10 game experience you have and then went on about " because of players like you". "Can't buff you-can't nerf you blah blah blah"

All that wall of text you posted was just you justify your games played count by talking about stuff you don't like and the people that may or may not agree with you. I could start talking about how HE is a broken mechanic and then proceed to tell people about my so called "Experience" and games played. I never said one thing about not touching stealth mechanics. Don't put words into my mouth. You lost credibility when you posedt things like "untouchable destroyers". This isn't CBT anymore, radar is staying in the game as it is for the foreseeable future and turn radius isn't changing either.

You want a counter argument. Then stop telling me about your CBT days, 1000's of t10 games and how stuff was before. Don't care and means nothing. The game is what it is now. If you got something better than 4 paragraphs of " stealth is broken, and something needed to be introduced to counter it" and " problem here is that dd drivers like yourself" then post it.

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No, he's right. DD have always been game-winners when they're able to move around without fear of being detected. This is why, when there are only one or two ships left per side, if one side has a destroyer alive and the other does not, the side with the DD usually wins, barring a huge point disparity and the inability to overcome it before running out of time. A DD that has only to contend with battleships and cruisers that can't radar it is essentially invulnerable. He will only ever be detected if he chooses to be. There is absolutely no way for the battleships and non-radar cruisers to counter it. How is this balanced?

Radar is there to force destroyers to consider a threat that can deprive them of their single biggest defense at potentially any moment, because they can't simply smoke up and run away if they make a mistake, overextend, and get caught out. They get punished for it, as they should. Smart DD drivers understand where radar ships are likely to go and position to avoid getting caught out by predictable radar plays. It's not an insurmountable obstacle. Baiting radars is hilarious, and really not that difficult. Occasionally, you get lit up by some random radar that you didn't expect to be there, even if you've got good situational awareness and intuition based on the information the minimap provides you, and you die because of it. It happens. So do detonations.

But I'll tell you what, of all the problems destroyers face, the worst isn't radar. You can play around that. The biggest problem, by far, is how much damage battleship AP does to DDs, especially when it double-dips.

--Helms

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14 hours ago, k9kid12 said:

DDs shouldnt get this kind of free reign over a much. This is exactly why we need more radar.

Why? if you see a screen shot of a bb doing 200k+ damage thats just normal so why is it so bad if a dd does have good games .... lols

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15 hours ago, k9kid12 said:

DDs shouldnt get this kind of free reign over a much. This is exactly why we need more radar.

/sarcasm

A DD gets the #1 xp slot?  HERESY!

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On 8/20/2018 at 4:58 PM, Sventex said:

/sarcasm

A DD gets the #1 xp slot?  HERESY!

Too bad I didn't take screenshots of my ranked battle in my YeuYang that I did 200k damage in or my other one with 150k and a confederate

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On 8/20/2018 at 1:56 AM, k9kid12 said:

DDs shouldnt get this kind of free reign over a much. This is exactly why we need more radar.

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