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BearlyHereBear

CV Captains believe they can win without the team

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I'm so sick of CV players letting the team get killed while they try to get kills.  They use fighters to escort their bombers and torp planes instead of protecting the fleet.  Don't they realize their fighters improve exponentially with our AA underneath them?

Yesterday enemy CV got a Kracken while our CV lucked into sinking one boat.  My GK got hit 8 times without so much as one group of fighters overhead.

Rant over but not finished.

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It could be a lack of experience on the CV's part.

But then, we only have your side of the argument to go by, so, hard to know what really happened, yes?

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It's hard to believe there is any selfish play in a random battle. 

I think we need a replay to check this.

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Get rid of strafe and a carrier won’t have to worry about its bombers so much...

...oh, but wait...

...the biggest CV screwing ever should happen before too long; and when the changes bomb completely I doubt anyone will have to worry about CVs anymore afterwards.

Some older players will hate the new controls and not play; and new players won’t go much beyond trying things out because a new batch of elites will just ruin the reworked system like they did the old one.

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22 minutes ago, BearlyHereBear said:

I'm so sick of CV players letting the team get killed while they try to get kills.  They use fighters to escort their bombers and torp planes instead of protecting the fleet.  Don't they realize their fighters improve exponentially with our AA underneath them?

Yesterday enemy CV got a Kracken while our CV lucked into sinking one boat.  My GK got hit 8 times without so much as one group of fighters overhead.

Rant over but not finished.

Believe me, CV players are just as sick of whiny BB players crying for protection......cant be everywhere.

BTW, decent CV players know far more about this game than you think, they also have FAR more to do.....perhaps you got a CV player that has failed his way to the top....or he just got owned by the other CV. I would rather fly cover for a DD or spot than protect a BB who should have enough AA to cover themselves.

[edited] to WG about how CV's work (and losing AA to HE/Fire damage) and what CV's get XP for. There is minimal benefit to a CV player for shooting down planes beyond annoying the other CV player, because we certainly dont get any thanks for providing fighter cover.

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It depends on the skill of the player. With how I play, I will always protect my torpedo bombers first, then myself, then the fleet. Once I am able to gauge how the enemy CV Player plays, only then can I defend the fleet or focus on my torpedo bombers. Ryujo's single fighter squad can only do so much alone. USN's single fighter squad can only do so much. Never expect to get air support. If you ask for it and you point out where you need it on a map, I will tell you whether or not I can. If you only scream for AA and not tell me where, how would you expect me to help?

Besides, I have won battles by myself because I am willing to cap and engage the enemy in close quarters combat. You will not find many players that play like myself. A CV can do anything and everything, most of them won't do that.

Edited by Vangm94
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Yeah, without a replay I have no way of judging whether the complaint is warranted.  Entirely likely OP sat as far back behind his CAs and CLs as possible while sniping at ships 20km away in his GK.  Equally likely he didn't... but without a replay, well who knows.

There are problems with the CV system, and most likely you're experiencing one of the more dramatic:  They're thrashed and trashed so often that only a few players stick with them long enough to get any good whatsoever.  Those that do end up being significantly better than their peers.

Hopefully the mechanics rework Coming SoonTM reinvigorates the population and we start to see more balance as everyone gets to relearn the new system.

-R

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3 minutes ago, Mister_Rawr said:

Yeah, without a replay I have no way of judging whether the complaint is warranted.  Entirely likely OP sat as far back behind his CAs and CLs as possible while sniping at ships 20km away in his GK.  Equally likely he didn't... but without a replay, well who knows.

There are problems with the CV system, and most likely you're experiencing one of the more dramatic:  They're thrashed and trashed so often that only a few players stick with them long enough to get any good whatsoever.  Those that do end up being significantly better than their peers.

Hopefully the mechanics rework Coming SoonTM reinvigorates the population and we start to see more balance as everyone gets to relearn the new system.

-R

It's debatable on whether or not the new CV system is gonna reinvigorate the population. It will just cause a whole new set of issues just like how it currently is. I am willing to try it. The main things I have noticed with high tier CVs are that they almost only snipe each other nowadays. AA has grown so much that they can't attack ships so they resorted to sniping each other. I only say this because all four battles I had with Essex and Lexington, I was sniped at by the enemy CV while I attacked the fleet and lost a lot of planes. It can't be helped I guess. I ended up selling my rebought Essex and Lexington because of how little I could do and how much AA there is. I will stick with Ryujo like I always have.

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I used one example but the problem is widespread.  I don't play CV much, but when I do, my fighters are always dedicated to defense of the fleet and I always select the option with the most fighters.

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10 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

CV players are just as sick of whiny BB players crying for protection......cant be everywhere.

Not talking about CV players who can't be everywhere; talking about CV players who can't be ANYWHERE!

11 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

decent CV players know far more about this game than you think, they also have FAR more to do

What a crock ... after all, YOU chose the ship, YOU chose the consequences.

13 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

There is minimal benefit to a CV player for shooting down planes beyond annoying the other CV player, because we certainly dont get any thanks for providing fighter cover.

What you're saying is that there is a minimal benefit to winning games over losing them.

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1 minute ago, BearlyHereBear said:

I used one example but the problem is widespread.  I don't play CV much, but when I do, my fighters are always dedicated to defense of the fleet and I always select the option with the most fighters.

I would do that when USN still had their fighters. I was okay with defending the fleet with Lexington. I can defend the fleet with Ryujo AS but I would prefer to attack than defend.

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Just now, BearlyHereBear said:

Unfortunately, preferring to attack than defend is the issue.

Depends on the player. I scout with my dive bombers, with how they scout, I scan the entire map. If I can see that the enemy fighters are on the east and their bombers are  on the west, I might be willing to break defending my bombers so that I can attack theirs. If I can get the enemy to chase my dive bombers, I will gladly attack their bombers. It depends on the situation and how the player plays. My tactics are in my signature. 

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4 minutes ago, BearlyHereBear said:

Unfortunately, preferring to attack than defend is the issue.

Preferring to attack than defend on average wins more games and saves more teammates. Before the T4-T5 CV changes, Zuihou was running all over Bogue despite the latter frequently fielding two fighter squadrons when even a single one could defeat the Zuihou's lone squadron. Because what in fighter power she made up for in strike power, and that strike power is what carries games. Players complain all the time about how CVs should be spotting more, but even when playing DDs those same players don't do anything with the spotting information I provide.

If you want proof of this, just check my Zuihou stats. They've barely changed since the removal of manual attacks, I haven't played her much. I had a hard time maintaining air control against AS Bogues, but more often than not a single good strike would be a better contribution to my team than all the spotting and plane kills an AS Bogue could provide to its team.

If you want even more proof, check my Bogue stats. Notice how abnormally high they are? That's because I took the 1-1-0 setup and learned how to fight better.

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7 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

Preferring to attack than defend on average wins more games and saves more teammates. Before the T4-T5 CV changes, Zuihou was running all over Bogue despite the latter frequently fielding two fighter squadrons when even a single one could defeat the Zuihou's lone squadron. Because what in fighter power she made up for in strike power, and that strike power is what carries games. Players complain all the time about how CVs should be spotting more, but even when playing DDs those same players don't do anything with the spotting information I provide.

If you want proof of this, just check my Zuihou stats. They've barely changed since the removal of manual attacks, I haven't played her much. I had a hard time maintaining air control against AS Bogues, but more often than not a single good strike would be a better contribution to my team than all the spotting and plane kills an AS Bogue could provide to its team.

If you want even more proof, check my Bogue stats. Notice how abnormally high they are? That's because I took the 1-1-0 setup and learned how to fight better.

I will bring more poof. Problem is I have a lot. It's up to the player to decide on how they play. This is how I play.

 

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49 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

Believe me, CV players are just as sick of whiny BB players crying for protection......cant be everywhere.

BTW, decent CV players know far more about this game than you think, they also have FAR more to do.....perhaps you got a CV player that has failed his way to the top....or he just got owned by the other CV. I would rather fly cover for a DD or spot than protect a BB who should have enough AA to cover themselves.

[edited] to WG about how CV's work (and losing AA to HE/Fire damage) and what CV's get XP for. There is minimal benefit to a CV player for shooting down planes beyond annoying the other CV player, because we certainly dont get any thanks for providing fighter cover.

I agree completely. If you are alone as a cruiser or battleship and die by a cv its generically your fault. Cv's planes dont go the speed of light and armt able to cover an entire match. Meanwhile yes there can be bad cv's it just goes to show as why cant cruisers provide air cover. Blaming an entire class of people isnt how this works. Besides carrier fighters dont have unlimited ammo and often run dry.

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53 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

Believe me, CV players are just as sick of whiny BB players crying for protection......cant be everywhere.

BTW, decent CV players know far more about this game than you think, they also have FAR more to do.....perhaps you got a CV player that has failed his way to the top....or he just got owned by the other CV. I would rather fly cover for a DD or spot than protect a BB who should have enough AA to cover themselves.

[edited] to WG about how CV's work (and losing AA to HE/Fire damage) and what CV's get XP for. There is minimal benefit to a CV player for shooting down planes beyond annoying the other CV player, because we certainly dont get any thanks for providing fighter cover.

Cough Cough, DD need cover too.

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1 minute ago, Nachoo31 said:

Cough Cough, DD need cover too.

If you ask, I will speak. If you expect, I won't come.

Hey, hey, hey, hey

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D6, B3, F9

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Honestly if they are the better CV player and they are playing a tier 9 or 10 CV they actually can win without the team more often than not.  I don't mind if they escort their attack planes but there needs to be some air coverage for DDs on both sides of the map even if its just a random dive bomber.  I typically keep my fighters near my TBs since everyone goes for the TBs and send my DBs to scout the other side when needed.  I mainly play tier 6 cvs (when I play cvs at all) because I'm not really into ultra multitasking, but the cvs with multiple fighters have no excuse for not providing some air coverage.  If its late that's acceptable it happens.  But when the fighters literally take the same flight plan as the planes making attack runs you know the CV doesn't know what to do.

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1 minute ago, mrh308 said:

Honestly if they are the better CV player and they are playing a tier 9 or 10 CV they actually can win without the team more often than not.  I don't mind if they escort their attack planes but there needs to be some air coverage for DDs on both sides of the map even if its just a random dive bomber.  I typically keep my fighters near my TBs since everyone goes for the TBs and send my DBs to scout the other side when needed.  I mainly play tier 6 cvs (when I play cvs at all) because I'm not really into ultra multitasking, but the cvs with multiple fighters have no excuse for not providing some air coverage.  If its late that's acceptable it happens.  But when the fighters literally take the same flight plan as the planes making attack runs you know the CV doesn't know what to do.

That's where managing more 8 squads becomes impossible (for me). So I find it understandable to just stick fighters with the bombers. I can play Ryujo extremely dangerously because I found the best way to play her. Once I play Hiryu, everything falls apart because of that one extra plane. I can sorta do fine in Kaga but not much compared to Ryujo.

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4 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

If you ask, I will speak. If you expect, I won't come.

Hey, hey, hey, hey

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I do the same. However if its a montana / wocester thats across that map that is asking for support. Nahhh

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Just now, JessieTheKitty said:

I do the same. However if its a montana / wocester thats across that map that is asking for support. Nahhh

I can't use multiple planes like Taiho and I can only do so much with a limited amount of planes with Essex and Lexington so I finally gave up with them. That and because I only got sniped when I last played.

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1 hour ago, BearlyHereBear said:

I'm so sick of CV players letting the team get killed while they try to get kills.  They use fighters to escort their bombers and torp planes instead of protecting the fleet.  Don't they realize their fighters improve exponentially with our AA underneath them?

Yesterday enemy CV got a Kracken while our CV lucked into sinking one boat.  My GK got hit 8 times without so much as one group of fighters overhead.

Rant over but not finished.

 

Or maybe you should be staying near some other friendly ships with strong AA.

I don't blame carriers one damned bit for covering their bombers with their fighters!  Without their fighters, their bombers will be raw meat for enemy fighters.

Regardless, the reality is that a carrier can only have its planes in very limited number of places at any one time.  But surface ship captains don't care about this.  They only care if the carriers planes are over THEIR ship when the enemy bombers are nearby.  They don't care about their team mates on the other side of the map who might also "need" air cover.

Frankly, I don't like CVs in this game.  But I have played them on occasion and I know full well that there are limitations on what carriers can do.  So, sorry, but I don't have that much sympathy for you here.  You should be worrying more about doing whatever you can to defend your ship yourself, and that usually means travelling with friends and NOT travelling  alone.

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3 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

I can't use multiple planes like Taiho and I can only do so much with a limited amount of planes with Essex and Lexington so I finally gave up with them. That and because I only got sniped when I last played.

This is part of the problem, I haven't figured out how to defend against the 3 fighter squadrons of the Taiho in my Essex, unless I get off a lucky strafe I spend half the game trying to take down his fighters while his planes attack with impunity or my attack planes get shredded by his 3rd set of fighters.

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