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Idea to make BB players help the team .

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I would suggest a range NERF on BB guns, forcing them to move up and help. And increasing the ranges of CA guns to reach out and "touch" these snipers that

just sit on edges of maps so they cant just camp with impunity.

 

As contrary as this may sound,  with shorter ranges for BB and longer ranges for CA the game dynamic 

could change for the better!.

There are good BB players no doubt, but its so frustrating to see game after game of BB players hiding behind an Island at A cap( A cap always seems to be a BB magnet that wont let them leave!)

 tying to shoot across the map while we lose the other caps just because there is no need to move in order to get better shots.

Or another alternative would be to have such a bad dispersion that shooting at 2/3 range or more will basically be a waste of time forcing them to move up.

 

Either way something should be done to "Encourage" better BB play. Sound game design should always include a counter to any ships best advantage and the BB 

advantage in range really does not have an effective counter and it only encourages bad play habits.

Edited by Comrade_Ryanovski
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Have you ever considered it's possibly your fault you're losing instead of the bbs fault?

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We needed this, another I want sip type X  to fight the way I want them to thread. Not every BB is capable in close quarters. Yes, the German BB's revel in sub 10Km fighting even if they are not secondary speced with manual secondaries but other BB's melt away in that environment.

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10 minutes ago, Comrade_Ryanovski said:

 

I would suggest a range NERF on BB guns, forcing them to move up and help. And increasing the ranges of CA guns to reach out and "touch" these snipers that

just sit on edges of maps so they cant just camp with impunity.

 

As contrary as this may sound,  with shorter ranges for BB and longer ranges for CA the game dynamic 

could change for the better!.

There are good BB players no doubt, but its so frustrating to see game after game of BB players hiding behind an Island at A cap( A cap always seems to be a BB magnet that wont let them leave!)

 tying to shoot across the map while we lose the other caps just because there is no need to move in order to get better shots.

Or another alternative would be to have such a bad dispersion that shooting at 2/3 range or more will basically be a waste of time forcing them to move up.

 

Either way something should be done to "Encourage" better BB play. Sound game design should always include a counter to any ships best advantage and the BB 

advantage in range really does not have an effective counter and it only encourages bad play habits.

Ya know they're gonna open a can of whoopass on you for this. While I generally don't disagree with your intent that isn't an easy button solution.

I think Mass is a good example, so if they were to do what you suggest i'd imagine secondary buffs would be in order for battleships. See how that works out for you at closer range.

There's a ton of HE spam lately and a BB is wise to stand off a bit and use its range advantage until he quells those bastards. Tank a little, using your range is pretty smart play.

If anything, get rid of the silly overmatch mechanic and things would get interesting IMO.

 

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Unfortunately all T9-10 BBs have long rudder shift times and agility of a sea turtle on land. Except for secondary build KMS BBs, generally they don't so well in close range, especially if a DD gets the jump--few things excite a DD as catching a BB within 3km w/ torp salvos.

I've found the only way to make them move in is 1) clear out the red DDs and 2) provide support they can see.

Personally, T9-10 BBs need their max acquistion range capped at 14km. Then they have no choice but to push in if they want to see targets--however, defense needs a buff or defense needs a nerf before that would be viable.

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Ship X doesn't play right. Im'a play Ship X and crush my foe!

Wut? Now the class I just abandoned doesn't support my push? Whyyyyy?

Best solution: Div with players who want to win the map. Don't be upset when they don't push themselves into port, though.

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Within a class ships have totally different strengths.  You can't just wiggle your nose with a single strategy to make them all win.

 Frankly, this would be a boring game if that were the case.

Edited by Warped_1
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44 minutes ago, Comrade_Ryanovski said:

 

I would suggest a range NERF on BB guns, forcing them to move up and help. And increasing the ranges of CA guns to reach out and "touch" these snipers that

just sit on edges of maps so they cant just camp with impunity.

 

As contrary as this may sound,  with shorter ranges for BB and longer ranges for CA the game dynamic 

could change for the better!.

There are good BB players no doubt, but its so frustrating to see game after game of BB players hiding behind an Island at A cap( A cap always seems to be a BB magnet that wont let them leave!)

 tying to shoot across the map while we lose the other caps just because there is no need to move in order to get better shots.

Or another alternative would be to have such a bad dispersion that shooting at 2/3 range or more will basically be a waste of time forcing them to move up.

 

Either way something should be done to "Encourage" better BB play. Sound game design should always include a counter to any ships best advantage and the BB 

advantage in range really does not have an effective counter and it only encourages bad play habits.

First off. Most high tier cruisers can already sit at range and hit the "sniper" ships with HE. Second I feel as though you die to "sniping" battleships a lot due to mistakes and this is how your letting the anger and salt out.  That entire last pair of sentences are entirely false. There is an effective counter to longer range bbs, its called HE and fires.

I feel as though you die to long range or mid range battleships and this is how your getting the salt out.

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Now come up with a suggestion for how to make lousy cruiser and destroyer players help the team, as well. Trust me sunshine, there are just as many of those too.

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47 minutes ago, Xantek said:

You remember we have DD's in this game, right?

That's the reason why BBs don't move up. As soon as a DD is detected anywhere nearby, this is what happens;

 

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32 minutes ago, Panic512 said:

First off. Most high tier cruisers can already sit at range and hit the "sniper" ships with HE. Second I feel as though you die to "sniping" battleships a lot due to mistakes and this is how your letting the anger and salt out.  That entire last pair of sentences are entirely false. There is an effective counter to longer range bbs, its called HE and fires.

I feel as though you die to long range or mid range battleships and this is how your getting the salt out.

Truthfully  I think Too Many  Battleship Drivers  think they're better shots Than They Actually   Yeah  Some Are As Good As they Think They Are,    Most  AREN'T!:Smile_sad::Smile_facepalm:

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17 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

Truthfully  I think Too Many  Battleship Drivers  think they're better shots Than They Actually   Yeah  Some Are As Good As they Think They Are,    Most  AREN'T!:Smile_sad::Smile_facepalm:

Trust me I agree, most battleship players are not good shots at longer ranges.

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Restricting proxy spotting to the mini-map would be a lot more interesting.  It would force players to actually use the mini-map, reduce the ineffective and gaming-killing long-range pot shot “tactic”, and generally encourage movement toward the enemy.

It would be fun to play test some of these things.

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I( know I'm not which is partly why I push up whilst driving my Missouri  the other part is to supply radar and yes she goes down a lot and some of the other  BB  Drivers mock,make fun however  as a battleship she should support  and I have helped to win doing that:cap_old:

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6 minutes ago, MikeLWX said:

Restricting proxy spotting to the mini-map would be a lot more interesting.  It would force players to actually use the mini-map, reduce the ineffective and gaming-killing long-range pot shot “tactic”, and generally encourage movement toward the enemy.

It would be fun to play test some of these things.

mmmm this is a interesting idea

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Want BB players to push up a bit more?

- Lower base fire damage (the % HP they lose PER fire) 3% from 18% to 15% (allows a BB to survive roughly one more fire, slightly accommodates prevalence of IFHE that only 50% of pen damage can be repaired, and the general increase in alpha from it). I personally say 12%, but meet the cruiser/DD mains halfway.

- Lower torp damage 10-15%: Yes I would even include TB's, and overall a fairly small nerf, I'd lean on 10%, which is roughly 1000-2000 damage depending on torp. However we would also be unnerfing IJN's and giving them similar spotting ranges to the torps of the other nations (1.3/4 km).

-Reduce repair party CD: as is, even with premium consumable, it takes a good while to cool and use especially with all the HE flying and occasional torps. Being a little tankier for it means a little more encouragement to move up.

-Reduce Alpha of BB AP: A side from the fact A: this helps fix the AP vs DD issue without screwing DD's and B: helps with the BB's deleting cruisers. Closer in is better accuracy, and if your shots need to count and connect that little bit better, your gonna want to move in (and BB's should give something up with the other 2 classes giving up some damage).

 

BB damage reduction puts a bit more premium on scoring more solid hits - I'm not necessarily talking massive nerfs, at least enough that if a BB scores 3 citadels and 2 over pens currently to sink a full HP cruiser that post nerf it at least be 3 citadels and 2 full pens. Personally I'm fine with something a tad more extreme than that, but the other BB players would really riot (hell they'd riot over hat small nerf). Fires with IFHE currently is a blight on the game, has been since IFHE was introduced because fires alone, when 80% of the shells shattered, were still a bit sketchy. This, combined with repair party getting a shorter CD, means that they don't have to worry quite as much about the IFHE slinging cruiser/cruisers/UK BB's as fires deal a bit less damage, and that repair party is off CD faster helps just straight tanking it. Slight torp damage nerf means a little less fear from torp walls, even if IJN is unnerfed, so they can not be as worried about a DD that's stalking them (though, obviously still have to because eventually it may still score enough hits)

With, a side benefit that, with AP from BB's not as devastating against cruisers or DD's, they can also be a bit more aggressive and push yo clear enemy DD's and cruisers, which, helps in the BB's moving up that much more. 

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1 hour ago, SkaerKrow said:

Now come up with a suggestion for how to make lousy cruiser and destroyer players help the team, as well. Trust me sunshine, there are just as many of those too.

This right here.

 

More, what you want is easily accomplished: Just play the BB yourself.

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2 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

That's the reason why BBs don't move up. As soon as a DD is detected anywhere nearby, this is what happens;

 

:Smile_great:True True:Smile_amazed::Smile_ohmy:

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Might I suggest providing a battleship that is pushing up with proper screening to protect them from torpedo attack?   You act as though all battleships hide at the back of the map, I can tell you from personal experience that is NOT the case at all.

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I have seen short gun and Torp ranged  full HP DDs and CAs run far back away from the fight in early battle. Making BBs shorter ranged will not help either.

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OP - Did you come up with this strategy after you were sunk by any chance?

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