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Renato1280

Rant - ships not fighting

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I have been playing now in tier 4, 5, 6, and a little in 7 and I think there are many people that are affraid of losing their ships.

At lower levels, people give their best, until the last second or HP. But now, people prefer to lose everyone's time, just to not lose ship.

Is it so expensive to lose a ship? I mean, an imaginary ship as these? I think people that are still alive and lose the game should receive the coward ribbon. Lose credits and all. And people that died trying their best should receive a bravery ribbon and extra credits.

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Simple search through the last few weeks of posts will tell you teams have been crap lately, since it's summer and all the school kids who DGAF are playing en masse.

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Because this would work well for a CV............. 

Or a ship that won the flank outnumbered 3 to 1 but wasn’t able to get back to the other flank before the loss. 

But the DD that charged a BB in the first 5 minutes, died to concentrated gunfire and didn’t even land any damage gets a bravery award? 

There are too many flaws not addressed at all here.

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You can't force people to be brave. You can't also force people to throw their ships away pointlessly. Teams have come back from a 1BB vs 5BB T10 game because players work together to support that 1BB.

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13 minutes ago, Renato1280 said:

I have been playing now in tier 4, 5, 6, and a little in 7 and I think there are many people that are affraid of losing their ships.

At lower levels, people give their best, until the last second or HP. But now, people prefer to lose everyone's time, just to not lose ship.

Is it so expensive to lose a ship? I mean, an imaginary ship as these? I think people that are still alive and lose the game should receive the coward ribbon. Lose credits and all. And people that died trying their best should receive a bravery ribbon and extra credits.

You want a participation trophy (or ribbon in this case) cause you die quickly based on your 26% survival rate and 15k average damage?

At less than 900 battles you shouldn't be in T7 ships as you've still got a lot to learn of the various game mechanics.

So while game play is not close to optimal you are part of the issue as well.

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If I know I'll get focused down by half of the red team, I'll hold my fire because I am no use to the team swimming with the fishes. It pays to pay attention to your positioning.

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Is he wrong that at higher tiers the camping/hiding rate is higher?

 

NT

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31 minutes ago, Renato1280 said:

I have been playing now in tier 4, 5, 6, and a little in 7 and I think there are many people that are affraid of losing their ships.

At lower levels, people give their best, until the last second or HP. But now, people prefer to lose everyone's time, just to not lose ship.

Is it so expensive to lose a ship? I mean, an imaginary ship as these? I think people that are still alive and lose the game should receive the coward ribbon. Lose credits and all. And people that died trying their best should receive a bravery ribbon and extra credits.

People who died trying their best, failed to do their best BECAUSE THEY DIED!!!  People who survive and keep fighting hard to the very end are NOT (necessarily) cowards.  The best way to improve your chances of winning is to STAY ALIVE and continue being productive!!!  The instant you die is the instant you become irrelevant to the final outcome of any battle.  If you want to be relevant to the final outcome of a battle, STAY ALIVE and don't stop producing for the team!!!

You are so completely wrong here!!!

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You sir, are exactly where I was four months ago.  I blamed my teams loses on players that would not fight just like you.  The day I made my post about it I had begged the red team in chat to please not cap go shoot those worthless BBs that camped in our base until the heat was on and then ran.  LOL!

Thanks to some really nice folks here on the forum, I learned that the problem with my win rate was ME.  They taught me to pick ships that matched my play style, and to become proficient in them.  By that I mean do damage at least at that ships average, and to survive most battles.  If you are not there at the end you are not contributing.  Check out your stats on na.wows-numbers.com and go back from time to time to see your improvement.  

Go down at least to Tier 4 and get good there.  Then you can gradually move up as you learn better strategy.

Above all else, accept the fact that it is your responsibility to increase your win rate, not the players on the team with you.  Any thing else makes you a permanent potato, and nobody want to be one of those.  

Good luck and following seas to you!

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The objective of the game is to play it.

If someone just stays alive till the game ends, running away of all the fleet, just to have a higher percentage of survivability, they should be punished. Why? Because they do not let other people play with their boats which get blocked.

Just now, a DD stayed alive and just went to the corner and stayed there two minutes till the game end. Losing life time and energy of the team which were hunting him, but just did not know where he was, because of low detectability. 7 people losing time. There could be also other people losing their time watching or waiting to a ship to be released. Is this the way to play the game?

And before you say I did not play well, I killed 25 aircraft, sunk a boat. The other aircraft destroyed 4 aircraft and sunk noone.

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37 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

Because this would work well for a CV............. 

Or a ship that won the flank outnumbered 3 to 1 but wasn’t able to get back to the other flank before the loss. 

But the DD that charged a BB in the first 5 minutes, died to concentrated gunfire and didn’t even land any damage gets a bravery award? 

There are too many flaws not addressed at all here.

It would be far too easy to abuse what the OP is proposing.

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44 minutes ago, Renato1280 said:

I have been playing now in tier 4, 5, 6, and a little in 7 and I think there are many people that are affraid of losing their ships.

At lower levels, people give their best, until the last second or HP. But now, people prefer to lose everyone's time, just to not lose ship.

Is it so expensive to lose a ship? I mean, an imaginary ship as these? I think people that are still alive and lose the game should receive the coward ribbon. Lose credits and all. And people that died trying their best should receive a bravery ribbon and extra credits.

Letting what others do rile you will only cause stress, hypertension and remove the fun factor of the game. Yes, I know it is much easier said than done. 

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if i am being hunted down by 7 reds they are not hunting down my teammates i am doing a great job 

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082.gif

 

2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

People who died trying their best, failed to do their best BECAUSE THEY DIED!!!  People who survive and keep fighting hard to the very end are NOT (necessarily) cowards.  The best way to improve your chances of winning is to STAY ALIVE and continue being productive!!!  The instant you die is the instant you become irrelevant to the final outcome of any battle.  If you want to be relevant to the final outcome of a battle, STAY ALIVE and don't stop producing for the team!!!

You are so completely wrong here!!!

Except there is a fine line between "staying alive and productive", and what the op is talking about. I've had to bail and go dark for an extended period to stay alive and heal HP, majority of a team stay disengaged a while more than I like (I'm a more aggressive player) but in their rush toward us then the other team becomes disorganized and pick them apart. It can be frustrating to the more aggressive players, but even we can understand that dead = no longer helping and sometimes, that means not going full aggro. 

 

But there are teams that never engage, never challenge caps, none of that they play it like TDM and lose because objectives usually. Where at 10 minutes left, 5 ships lost to 0, 100-750, get to a point of ":etc_swear: it" and try and take a cap or lead a charge while the rest of the team continues just trying to survive, occasionally getting help so it's not as catastrophic losses. And usually ending up top of the team for it. Hell, I've had matches sunk in 5 minutes that even though the match lasted 14 more my BB that was sunk early was still top of the team. Couple weeks back, despite having DD's, still alive at health on my team, I had a series of BB matches where I was getting 50-80k spotting damage on top of regular damage, spotting the red DD's for the team, in matches where radar ships weren't present and my ship didn't even have hydro. 

 

The problem people like me are having, and likely the op, are not the ones who survive and actually fight to the end, not even fight hard, just fight. The problem is the ones where no one is fighting, no one is trying to play the objective, it's 7/12 players on the team afraid to get their damn paint scratched at all. 

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59 minutes ago, Renato1280 said:

At lower levels, people give their best, until the last second or HP. But now, people prefer to lose everyone's time, just to not lose ship.

Is it so expensive to lose a ship? I mean, an imaginary ship as these? I think people that are still alive and lose the game should receive the coward ribbon. Lose credits and all. And people that died trying their best should receive a bravery ribbon and extra credits.

sounded like tier 10 battle to me.

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You can't earn good rewards if you die early without doing anything.  This isn't Battlefield, Call of Duty where you can respawn and have another go.  In WoWS, you die, you either spectate the rest or head back to port and grab a different ship.  Your time playing the match is over, and that is a higher stakes game than the typical PVP game.  Even MMORPGs with PVP elements have respawns.  Not in WoWS.  You dead?  That's it, son.

 

I will say that when I was new, I did all the dumb things people on the boards complained about.  Eventually I realized I needed to do more damage, etc.  I needed caps.  I can't hit anything if I'm too far back, and from that point on I got more aggressive to get better shots.  And it was a slow slog from there.

 

You can only hope that someone else with the 40% WR (I was around there myself), playing very timidly, will connect the dots and get better, bolder.   Everybody starts out as a potato.

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24 minutes ago, Joe_918145 said:

You sir, are exactly where I was four months ago.  I blamed my teams loses on players that would not fight just like you.  The day I made my post about it I had begged the red team in chat to please not cap go shoot those worthless BBs that camped in our base until the heat was on and then ran.  LOL!

Thanks to some really nice folks here on the forum, I learned that the problem with my win rate was ME.  They taught me to pick ships that matched my play style, and to become proficient in them.  By that I mean do damage at least at that ships average, and to survive most battles.  If you are not there at the end you are not contributing.  Check out your stats on na.wows-numbers.com and go back from time to time to see your improvement.  

Go down at least to Tier 4 and get good there.  Then you can gradually move up as you learn better strategy.

Above all else, accept the fact that it is your responsibility to increase your win rate, not the players on the team with you.  Any thing else makes you a permanent potato, and nobody want to be one of those.  

Good luck and following seas to you!

You, sir, did not even understand what this post is all about. I am not complaining about my win rate. 

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22 minutes ago, Renato1280 said:

The objective of the game is to play it.

If someone just stays alive till the game ends, running away of all the fleet, just to have a higher percentage of survivability, they should be punished. Why? Because they do not let other people play with their boats which get blocked.

Just now, a DD stayed alive and just went to the corner and stayed there two minutes till the game end. Losing life time and energy of the team which were hunting him, but just did not know where he was, because of low detectability. 7 people losing time. There could be also other people losing their time watching or waiting to a ship to be released. Is this the way to play the game?

And before you say I did not play well, I killed 25 aircraft, sunk a boat. The other aircraft destroyed 4 aircraft and sunk noone.

No, the objective of the game is to WIN!!!  And dying does NOT help your team win (usually)!!!

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1 minute ago, Renato1280 said:

You, sir, did not even understand what this post is all about. I am not complaining about my win rate. 

My point is that there will always be people camping in the base or running to the margins.  They have their reasons, I don't understand them, but I realize that there will always be players that don't do what is expected.  Don't let it bother you, do the best you can to contribute to the team and don't worry about the other guys.

I was trying to help you not insult you.  Hopefully you will improve your play and we'll meet on the same team someday.  I can assure you I will be fighting not camping.  LOL!

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1 hour ago, Renato1280 said:

I have been playing now in tier 4, 5, 6, and a little in 7 and I think there are many people that are affraid of losing their ships.

At lower levels, people give their best, until the last second or HP. But now, people prefer to lose everyone's time, just to not lose ship.

Is it so expensive to lose a ship? I mean, an imaginary ship as these? I think people that are still alive and lose the game should receive the coward ribbon. Lose credits and all. And people that died trying their best should receive a bravery ribbon and extra credits.

Same old story.  Sub 30% survival rate suicidally aggressive player who hasn't grasped the fact that this game is not a die-every-5-minutes-rinse-and-repeat first person shooter.  There is nothing "brave" about your carelessness and extending yourself to the point of getting focused down by ships at a rate that you cannot return fire fast enough to trade damage evenly or better yet in your favor.  There is no reward that should come from being too aggressive and wasting your ship and sabotaging your team.

Countless posts blaming the passive players and each time you look up the OP's performance history and it's a horror show of under-performance.

Why do you not comprehend the fact that the snowball effect is the #1 leading cause of losses, not passive play?  The passive play almost always happens AFTER you and the other suicidal players derp themselves to the bottom of the ocean before 5 minutes and their only sensible option is to tactically retreat to avoid getting focus fired by 5+ ships.  So it only looks as though they were not supporting you but that's not the reality.  

Learn to take personal accountability for the health of your ship while still doing damage and you will one day find yourself becoming a valued asset to the team instead of bringing them down.

Let's take the Wyoming for example since it's your most played BB.  You average less than 20k in it.  20k damage is like three salvos.  That's less than 2 minutes of game time.  Not all matches last the full 20 minutes, so let's say the average is 15 minutes.  That means you are as good as afk for 13 of those 15 minutes.  Or completely not contributing for 86% of the entire match.

Please for the love of god and for the health of the player community I hope that reality hits you and you are ready to take responsibility.

If for even one split second or 1% chance you think anything I'm saying is wrong, prove it.  Show me the many 60+ percent win rate players (solo play) who have survival rates as low as yours.  The capacity to protect your ship's health is just as equally important as maximizing your damage.  And to have a survival rate as low as yours means you are completely ignoring half the fundamental success factor that makes winners in this game winners.

If there was some way to implant some sort of brainwashing mechanism to re-engineer suicidal player's minds at a mass scale, it would be amazing.  But unfortunately, you can't do that, but my words have had an effect on some who are capable of getting out of their own way if they are mature enough to take responsibility and actually give it a shot:

 

Spoiler

IY9uy98.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

People who died trying their best, failed to do their best BECAUSE THEY DIED!!!  People who survive and keep fighting hard to the very end are NOT (necessarily) cowards.  The best way to improve your chances of winning is to STAY ALIVE and continue being productive!!!  The instant you die is the instant you become irrelevant to the final outcome of any battle.  If you want to be relevant to the final outcome of a battle, STAY ALIVE and don't stop producing for the team!!!

You are so completely wrong here!!!

There  IS A Difference between Running,Hiding and Fighting/Being Productive  and all too many times lately I've seen four,five ships never moving far from the spawn point until the Red Team Comes After Them!    At Which Point It's Like A Cat/Hawk Diving into a Flock Of Pigeons :Smile_sad::Smile_facepalm:

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19 minutes ago, VGLance said:

Same old story.  Sub 30% survival rate suicidally aggressive player who hasn't grasped the fact that this game is not a die-every-5-minutes-rinse-and-repeat first person shooter.  There is nothing "brave" about your carelessness and extending yourself to the point of getting focused down by ships at a rate that you cannot return fire fast enough to trade damage evenly or better yet in your favor.  There is no reward that should come from being too aggressive and wasting your ship and sabotaging your team.

Countless posts blaming the passive players and each time you look up the OP's performance history and it's a horror show of under-performance.

Why do you not comprehend the fact that the snowball effect is the #1 leading cause of losses, not passive play?  The passive play almost always happens AFTER you and the other suicidal players derp themselves to the bottom of the ocean before 5 minutes and their only sensible option is to tactically retreat to avoid getting focus fired by 5+ ships.  So it only looks as though they were not supporting you but that's not the reality.  

Learn to take personal accountability for the health of your ship while still doing damage and you will one day find yourself becoming a valued asset to the team instead of bringing them down.

Let's take the Wyoming for example since it's your most played BB.  You average less than 20k in it.  20k damage is like three salvos.  That's less than 2 minutes of game time.  Not all matches last the full 20 minutes, so let's say the average is 15 minutes.  That means you are as good as afk for 13 of those 15 minutes.  Or completely not contributing for 86% of the entire match.

Please for the love of god and for the health of the player community I hope that reality hits you and you are ready to take responsibility.

If for even one split second or 1% chance you think anything I'm saying is wrong, prove it.  Show me the many 60+ percent win rate players (solo play) who have survival rates as low as yours.  The capacity to protect your ship's health is just as equally important as maximizing your damage.  And to have a survival rate as low as yours means you are completely ignoring half the fundamental success factor that makes winners in this game winners.

If there was some way to implant some sort of brainwashing mechanism to re-engineer suicidal player's minds at a mass scale, it would be amazing.  But unfortunately, you can't do that, but my words have had an effect on some who are capable of getting out of their own way if they are mature enough to take responsibility and actually give it a shot:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

IY9uy98.jpg

 

I agree with you on MOST of this post. The only real point i beg to differ on is your arbitrary use of 30% survival rate. Many players have decent to very good stats with low survival rates. Survival beyond the 5-10 min point in a match is important but survival at the 20 min mark is often the reason for a loss.  I personally am usually alive at the 7 min mark in a battle. But I often find that, what will essentially be a suicide, can change the course of a battle when you do have the potatoes sitting in back doing nothing on your team. Sometimes it does not work and you still loose. But often after a heroic slaughter of a higher tier BB in a damaged DD when all other DD's are dead can give the potatoes a little courage, and a win can be pulled out of a loss. Survival rate IMO is NOT a factor in what make's a "Good" player and implying that it is is wrong of you. Damage Dealt, Kills, supporting your team, surviving long enough to do these things  and win rate is what makes a good player. Being alive at the end of match IMO is not.

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1 hour ago, shadowsrmine said:

There  IS A Difference between Running,Hiding and Fighting/Being Productive  and all too many times lately I've seen four,five ships never moving far from the spawn point until the Red Team Comes After Them!    At Which Point It's Like A Cat/Hawk Diving into a Flock Of Pigeons :Smile_sad::Smile_facepalm:

Of course there is.  The problem is that the OP doesn't know the difference, or doesn't talk like he does.  The thing that you're missing is that the OP is equating "fighting" with being dead before the end of the battle, and IMO that's a sign of complete misunderstanding of what it really takes to win battles.  

To paraphrase, no one won a battle by dying for his team (unless you ram the last remaining enemy ship, while your team has at least one more).  Make the other poor, dumb (bleep) die for his team.

 

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