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Snargfargle

I've got a decision to make regarding a Cruiser

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I have some Premium time from a  supercontainer and should be able to grind out my first tier X Cruiser in the next week. Also, the Go Navy event will allow me to clad it in a nice Premium camo. However, I'm not really sure which one it should be, the Des Moines or the Worcester.

I'd always had my eye on a Des Moines but now I hear that the rate of fire has been nerfed. From experience playing DDs lately, I can see that the Worcester's rate of fire is something to behold. Has the Worcester become toe "go to" tier X cruiser in the USN line or is the Des Moines still a good ship to aspire to?  

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The Des Moines is a tried and true, known quantity. Worcester is still very new, and I'm sure not everything about her is known that could be known.

 

For your consideration: 

 If Zoup has it right, this is not a ship for those who like to go off on their own and fight their own private war - co-operation is optimal. Correlation with your own style and modes of play is advised.

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I dont have either but fight them pretty regularly. From the perspective of which I consider the greater threat it would be the Sauce. Sure the DM is deadly but the ROF & subsequent fires from the Sauce make me think its the greater threat & the one I will shoot at 1st all things being equal. 

If I were in your shoes I would get the Worcester. 

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1) DM was not nerfed, and i havent heard any news about a potential nerf

2) TX cruisers are balanced, DM and wooster do have different playstyle, so it will depend on your preference

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I would say the DM is more versatile overall because it can cause massive cumulative damage to BBs with AP on broadside. You can also beat any other cruiser in the game in a mid range dual. The worcester's greatest flaw is its inability to citadel cruisers except at close range. If you like stealth-radaring Dds and then evaporating them with your guns, go for Worcester. If you like doing hilarious AP damage to BBs and cruisers, go for the DM. Both ships are great fire starters

Edited by neworleanssaintsfan
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1 minute ago, neworleanssaintsfan said:

I would say the DM is more versatile overall because it can cause massive cumulative damage to BBs with AP on broadside. You can also beat any other cruiser in the game in a mid range dual. The worcester's greatest flaw is its inability to citadel cruisers except at close range. If you like stealth-radaring Dds and then evaporating them with your guns, go for Worcester. If you like doing hilarious AP damage to BBs and cruisers, go for the DM. Both ships are great fire starters

Anyone who proclaims to be a Saints fan speaks nothing but wisdom. I was going to say DM as well due to its versatility and ability to be more readily available to adapt the changing situations. The Worcester is scary until it has to leave its island.

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DM would be my choice from what you propose (I have both).

TBH if I was going for only one T10 cruiser, Hindenburg would be my number one choice

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I have both and prefer (and succeed more with) Des Moines.

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I am thinking I will get the Wooster and the Camo about the same time I get the Salem and Adm.Halsey.

I already got the DM with a 19 pt captain and looking to buy the perm Camo. it looks better than the Eagle Token Freebie.

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I have the Worcester, nice ship, needs to use islands for armor, incredible acceleration as she will bypass Fletchers from the starting line (so far the only one DD that was running parallel and started next to me, where I noticed them).  Make sure your captain has at least 14 points (I run: priority target, last stand, surviveability expert, IFHE and Reduced detection).  IFHE is a must with the Worcester as the projectiles are too light and will bounce or shatter 4/5 of the time at long distance, but will deal damage 3/4 the time with IFHE.  Nicest feature, but is also a pain to get used to, are her ballistics as the shells try to ignore gravity, a.k.a. lots of hang time...

Would prefer that WG/WoWs gave us the spotter plane even without additional firing range (I hate the radar in any ship).

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Probably DM because of that juicy AP pen. 

The Sauce is for sure a fun boat, and is very competitive, but for your first one I'd go with the tried and true DM.

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Des Moines easily. Sure, Worcester might have the "scary" rate of fire but it can never actually use it in a one on one fight with any other cruiser or above for fear of getting demolished. Des Moines actually has scary firepower. Those US AP angles are something that you just don't get on Worcester, literally. Besides, if someone looks my way in a Des Moines, I won't instantly explode from lack of actually being able to take a hit.

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Worcester is more fun than DM in a lot of ways. I try and play it more open water than island camping. However, DM is fun too.

Despite what you're reading, Worcester can do amazing damage with AP if you get the opportunity to use AP on broadside ships, even battleships. 

It's really a desicion on play style but both are great. I would just rack up as much free experience as possible with whatever one you pick so you can grab the other one sooner. 

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Go with the DM with spotter planes...two of them....no one will expect the hilarity when you rain death on them behind islands.

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Des Moines. She's a truly fearsome ship. Worcester is just disgusting at tier 10, and we already have enough of that as is.

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I would vote DM between the two.  It rewards you extremely well for good play and positioning vs any class of ship.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

I have some Premium time from a  supercontainer and should be able to grind out my first tier X Cruiser in the next week. Also, the Go Navy event will allow me to clad it in a nice Premium camo. However, I'm not really sure which one it should be, the Des Moines or the Worcester.

I'd always had my eye on a Des Moines but now I hear that the rate of fire has been nerfed. From experience playing DDs lately, I can see that the Worcester's rate of fire is something to behold. Has the Worcester become toe "go to" tier X cruiser in the USN line or is the Des Moines still a good ship to aspire to?  

 

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The Des Moines is a tried and true, known quantity. Worcester is still very new, and I'm sure not everything about her is known that could be known.

 

For your consideration: 

 If Zoup has it right, this is not a ship for those who like to go off on their own and fight their own private war - co-operation is optimal. Correlation with your own style and modes of play is advised.

I have both of them  and both can be and  often are Hammered Hard anytime seen,   However whilst the Des Moines guns are heavier hence no need for IFHE  once  the Wocester does get IFHE she becomes a beast.   Mind I'm still learning to get the most out of her.   OTH  I believe it was  @TheMightyJingles   that had an extended range build for the Des Moines that I tried and while it was a blast and different I am not the person to consistent results out of that kinda thing(not even with the Missouri so thats me not his build)  Good Luck Snarf hope you enjoy whichever you choose

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

Thanks! Des Moines it is.

Oh! Good luck with the new ship, hope I never see it on the wrong team!

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I have both.

When I first got the Worcester it really made me appreciate the DM's super heavy AP and 27mm bow, which allows for at least a little bit of bow-in tankiness. There were encounters at close range in the Worcester where I felt that had I been in my DM, I would have easily prevailed.

Now I'm trying to play both ships equally but I'm finding the Worcester is pulling ahead... it crushes DDs, the hydro is useful, rudder shift is good enough that propulsion mod is a solid pick, and I'm not having too many issues getting into positions to put the ridiculous DPM to good use. A straight up gun-fight at close range isn't ideal but it's pretty eye opening how fast you can burn a target down if kiting away with all guns on target. 

For now at least, I'm putting up better games in the Worcester than the DM.

 

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At least to me, The Worcester out performs the Des Moines in every meaningful statistic. WR, Destruction ratio, XP per game, damage per game, and its not really close. It needs a 19 point captain and IFHE...but I chase Des Moines away in this thing, they don't chase me. the withering fire rate has a psychological effect on any target that is targeted.. 

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4 hours ago, neworleanssaintsfan said:

I would say the DM is more versatile overall because it can cause massive cumulative damage to BBs with AP on broadside. You can also beat any other cruiser in the game in a mid range dual. The worcester's greatest flaw is its inability to citadel cruisers except at close range. If you like stealth-radaring Dds and then evaporating them with your guns, go for Worcester. If you like doing hilarious AP damage to BBs and cruisers, go for the DM. Both ships are great fire starters

DM is pretty good at killing DDs as well. 5.5s reloaded is merciless against them.

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6 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I have some Premium time from a  supercontainer and should be able to grind out my first tier X Cruiser in the next week. Also, the Go Navy event will allow me to clad it in a nice Premium camo. However, I'm not really sure which one it should be, the Des Moines or the Worcester.

I'd always had my eye on a Des Moines but now I hear that the rate of fire has been nerfed. From experience playing DDs lately, I can see that the Worcester's rate of fire is something to behold. Has the Worcester become toe "go to" tier X cruiser in the USN line or is the Des Moines still a good ship to aspire to?  

Whoever told you that DM's rate of fire was nerfed, you need to grab them by the collar and slap the spit out of their mouths several times.  They have zero idea what they're talking about and giving you false information.  If they were a Unicum player telling you that, you need to give five extra slaps to the face for that misinformation.

 

DM or Worcester?

Both are pretty close but the differences are crucial.  I had talked about it a while back:

DM has a bow that can bounce 380mm AP.  In the past that wasn't too big a deal as the only 15" armed BBs DM saw were Bismarck, Tirpitz, and the rare Roma.  But now we got Richelieu, Alsace, Gascogne, and upcoming Jean Bart that are also 380mm armed Battleships.  So the 27mm bow has become more and more important.  Worcester isn't tanking sh*t.  She'll get overmatched by even 380mm AP, even through the bow.

 

DM with her 203mm auto-loaders is nice.  Worcester shoots faster but DM has 5.5 second reload (without MBM3 nor AR running) and slings around 203mm shells.  You don't need IFHE.  Your AP is also very strong and can make even Battleships quickly pay for mistakes if they don't respect you.  Cruisers even in short range have to respect DM's power.  Give her any sides for her AP and she'll make them pay dearly.  Try to be angled, she just pumps 203mm HE to melt faces.  Worcester in a desperate gunfight isn't going to put anyone down quickly that isn't a DD or low HP.  Her guns need tremendous amount of time to do their work.  Worcester guns are DPM oriented, they do not put Cruiser or Battleship threats down instantly.

 

The most d_mning thing about Worcester's guns is this WiP video Flamu had on Worcester.  This segment shows the major problems Worcester has in putting a Non-DD down quickly.

 

You let any of the Tier X Cruisers catch a broadside Minotaur like that with their AP, the Minotaur is dead.  DM's super AP would demolish her quickly.  Flamu gets EIGHT CITADELS against an initially stationary, broadside Minotaur at under 5km and cannot put it down before the Minotaur gets off a suicidal torpedo salvo that kills Flamu.

 

Worcester's guns are great in dealing damage over time.  They're great in the psychological impact on people when they realize they are getting hit by a constant stream of Non-DD HE shells.  Even Battleships start panicking if they can't fire back at Worcester.  People will LEAVE the area outright.  But if the circumstance comes down where a Non-DD comes to say "Hi!" and you can't just disappear, Worcester is in big trouble.  She can last a decent amount of time but her guns won't put someone down quickly.

 

Both DM & Worcester are outstanding Division Cruisers.  Respectably stealthy, good AA, good firepower, good consumables.  DM is a bit sturdier (for a USN Cruiser) and the guns are rock solid reliable.  The advantage Worcester has for the Division is her super stealth combined with her radar.  She can support Division / Team DDs much more aggressively than I can with DM, and I risk my DM a lot to help friendly DDs.  The 8.6km max AA range is insane, outstripping even DM's awesome AA.

 

If you play a Support Cruiser role heavily, IMO Worcester with her concealment, insane consumables access is the better USN Cruiser between the 2.  But DM doesn't fold to typical DD & Cruiser encounters in such jobs and her firepower can deal with even other Cruisers she sees trying to do the same.

 

Also, something I forgot to mention earlier.  DM can be bow on and present 6 of her 9 powerful, fast shooting 203mm guns.  Worcester has to show a lot of sides to get off more guns.  If she's bow on, she can fire only 4 of her 12 152mm guns.  Show more sides and she's more vulnerable to more hits more damage.

 

Another thing both share is the need for teams that don't quickly fold.  They can't do their best work if a collapse is underway.  Hindenburg, Zao for example can do well despite a collapse.  Not Worcester and DM.  It gets a lot harder.

 

Sorry, another edit.  There is one thing Worcester does extremely well, better than Des Moines, is intercepting an isolated, flanking DD.  If the DD has no Cruiser or Battleship support in the area, you can take Cleveland and Worcester straight to the suspected DD area.  When the DD spots you, pop Radar and rip them apart.  Will even happily do this against Khabarovsk, because even they won't like encountering Worcester when they detect them at about 9.5km.  The concealment difference between their concealment and radar ranges lets them do this extremely well.  Radar Minotaur can do the same.  Radar Edinburgh can do this trick also.  It's harder for DM to do this as well because there's a good sized gap between DM's detection and Radar ranges.  It's big enough that a DD can realize what's going on, do a 180, and be out of Radar range.  DM can pop Radar and still spot nothing.  Again, it's important that the enemy DD you're intercepting doesn't have Cruiser or BB backup nearby.  You do not want to be dealing with DD guns and torps, while some Moskva or BB is shooting at you from the sides at reasonable ranges.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I've had a few occasions to bow tank fight my Des Moines vs a Worcester.   (fighting nose to nose) sure he had a better rate of fire, but his AP bounced or did minimal damage while I could citadel him even with him pointing straight at me, so the actual damage being done was heavily in my favor.

If you want a fire starter, go with Worcester, but know that you have armor that as far as I can tell is on par with the Dianne's armor (tier 5 British cruiser that uses it's citadel to protect it's paint job).  It's hard to hit a Worcester without getting a citadel hit mixed in when using a Des Moines firing AP.

A Des Moines is not super tankey either, but you can bounce shells when pointed straight at things...

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