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Airglide2

What's the difference between 1/4, 1/5, and 1/6 pen...?

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theres already another thread like this, use that one.

 

why would WG make the already complex pen (that isnt shown in game) even more complex?

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1 minute ago, Hanger_18 said:

theres already another thread like this, use that one.

 

why would WG make the already complex pen (that isnt shown in game) even more complex?

Show me.

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1/4 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/4 of its gun caliber.

1/5 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/5 of its gun caliber.

1/6 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/6 of its gun caliber

  • Cool 2

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44 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Show me.

 

2 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Where's the math?

 

:Smile_facepalm:

Figure it out for yourself, like literally everyone else has.  It's just simple, early elementary division.  Not hard.

 

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Just now, Kuckoo said:

 

 

:Smile_facepalm:

Figure it out for yourself, like literally everyone else has.  It's just simple, early elementary division.  Not hard.

 

I did when sung gave me the definition.  This other guy just gave a link to a post that had nothing to do with the description.

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27 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

1/4 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/4 of its gun caliber.

1/5 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/5 of its gun caliber.

1/6 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/6 of its gun caliber

Thank you.

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57 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

1/4 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/4 of its gun caliber.

1/5 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/5 of its gun caliber.

1/6 Pen means it penetrates armor up to 1/6 of its gun caliber

Incorrect. 1/4 means that it is blocked by any armor greater than or equal to 1/4 the shell caliber. Same for 1/5, same for 1/6.

What this means is that shells that you think may penetrate actually wont.

2 examples. US light crusiers are 152mm gunned. 152/6 is 25.4

If the guns penned 1/6 their caliber, that would mean that those guns should pen all the plating of tier 7 bbs naturally. They dont though, because the rule actuall reads that a plate 25mm and greater will stop it.

This applies harshly to the 114mm guns of the tier 9 and 10 british dds, because 114/6 is 19, meaning the plating of all the destroyers in T10 darings mm spread are unable to be penned without IFHE. Worse yet, daring CANNOT do damage with HE to ANY BBs in its matchmaking spread without IFHE. 

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54 minutes ago, Commissar_Carl said:

Incorrect. 1/4 means that it is blocked by any armor greater than or equal to 1/4 the shell caliber. Same for 1/5, same for 1/6.

What this means is that shells that you think may penetrate actually wont.

2 examples. US light crusiers are 152mm gunned. 152/6 is 25.4

If the guns penned 1/6 their caliber, that would mean that those guns should pen all the plating of tier 7 bbs naturally. They dont though, because the rule actuall reads that a plate 25mm and greater will stop it.

This applies harshly to the 114mm guns of the tier 9 and 10 british dds, because 114/6 is 19, meaning the plating of all the destroyers in T10 darings mm spread are unable to be penned without IFHE. Worse yet, daring CANNOT do damage with HE to ANY BBs in its matchmaking spread without IFHE. 

I guess it depends how you interpret “up to.” Most of the time people around where I live say “up to and including” in this case @0806sung was correct. I guess different people read it differently though. So it is they can will pen anything less than 1/4, 1/5, 1/6. 

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23 minutes ago, Commissar_Carl said:

Incorrect. 1/4 means that it is blocked by any armor greater than or equal to 1/4 the shell caliber. Same for 1/5, same for 1/6.

What this means is that shells that you think may penetrate actually wont.

2 examples. US light crusiers are 152mm gunned. 152/6 is 25.4

If the guns penned 1/6 their caliber, that would mean that those guns should pen all the plating of tier 7 bbs naturally. They dont though, because the rule actuall reads that a plate 25mm and greater will stop it.

This applies harshly to the 114mm guns of the tier 9 and 10 british dds, because 114/6 is 19, meaning the plating of all the destroyers in T10 darings mm spread are unable to be penned without IFHE. Worse yet, daring CANNOT do damage with HE to ANY BBs in its matchmaking spread without IFHE. 

Alright, now this makes sense.  So why not just have 1/5 pen baked into the ship?  That's 22.8 pen.  Coupled with IFHE (+6.84) that's 29.64.  Not enough to be overpowered but not enough to be underpowered, no?

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12 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

Alright, now this makes sense.  So why not just have 1/5 pen baked into the ship?  That's 22.8 pen.  Coupled with IFHE (+6.84) that's 29.64.  Not enough to be overpowered but not enough to be underpowered, no?

That is my hope. it allows the 4.5 inch guns to work against BB Superstructures and DD's on its own, but also allows them to beat cruiser plating if IFHE is taken. this means that it isn't dependent on IFHE to work, but that IFHE also provides a advantage that would hopefully make a person pause and consider if they want that over, say, RPF or other tier 3 skills. 

I think the odds are against this, but that would be ideal.

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1 minute ago, Commissar_Carl said:

That is my hope. it allows the 4.5 inch guns to work against BB Superstructures and DD's on its own, but also allows them to beat cruiser plating if IFHE is taken. this means that it isn't dependent on IFHE to work, but that IFHE also provides a advantage that would hopefully make a person pause and consider if they want that over, say, RPF or other tier 3 skills. 

I think the odds are against this, but that would be ideal.

What's your thinking of having the new Japanese Destroyers having 1/5 pen instead of 1/4?  If base 25mm pen plus IFHE that gives them 32.5mm pen.  I think that's to strong and overrules fundamentals of superiority.  But with 20mm base pen plus IFHE that's 26mm pen, again, not to overpowered but not to underpowered.

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47 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

What's your thinking of having the new Japanese Destroyers having 1/5 pen instead of 1/4?  If base 25mm pen plus IFHE that gives them 32.5mm pen.  I think that's to strong and overrules fundamentals of superiority.  But with 20mm base pen plus IFHE that's 26mm pen, again, not to overpowered but not to underpowered.

personally, I'd agree with you too. I don't drive in the IJN DD's so I can't speak with too much authority, but the 1/4 pen with IFHE allows you to turn off your brain and just vomit HE and get results on the whole range of targets in your spread. add that to the very high fire rate that they have and they seem rather powerful despite their maneuverability and speed being the pits. if it was 1/5 they'd be able to do something to all targets with HE and no IFHE, would have more effectiveness against light cruisers with IFHE. also, I feel like that would not be so powerful as to require the Akizuki's maneuverability to be nerfed. 

however, I must express my pessimism about WG's balance right now. I'm sure that the way that they buffed akizuki's guns was to say "hey, we already have a 1/4 pen rule. lets just dump that in instead of taking the 10 minutes to make a new 1/5 pen rule." I hope that they add in that sort of rule, but I don't think that they will. 

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8 minutes ago, Commissar_Carl said:

personally, I'd agree with you too. I don't drive in the IJN DD's so I can't speak with too much authority, but the 1/4 pen with IFHE allows you to turn off your brain and just vomit HE and get results on the whole range of targets in your spread. add that to the very high fire rate that they have and they seem rather powerful despite their maneuverability and speed being the pits. if it was 1/5 they'd be able to do something to all targets with HE and no IFHE, would have more effectiveness against light cruisers with IFHE. also, I feel like that would not be so powerful as to require the Akizuki's maneuverability to be nerfed. 

however, I must express my pessimism about WG's balance right now. I'm sure that the way that they buffed akizuki's guns was to say "hey, we already have a 1/4 pen rule. lets just dump that in instead of taking the 10 minutes to make a new 1/5 pen rule." I hope that they add in that sort of rule, but I don't think that they will. 

Well as I mentioned in another post, German BBs needed the 1/4 because that's half their firepower.  Wonky accuracy guns even if 380mm doesn't make up the terrible secondary pen.  German Cruisers needed them because even if their HE penned, the low damage and fire chance wouldn't make it worth their while.  British BBs I don't know why they gave them 1/4.  IJN DDs don't have the short comings of poor accuracy, fire chance, or reload speed so yeah, here's hoping 1/5 will be implemented.

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I'm starting to think that IFHE was a bad idea, something so important shouldn't be balanced around having a particular skill.

Edited by Lampshade_M1A2

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31 minutes ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

I'm starting to think that IFHE was a bad idea, something so important shouldn't be balanced around having a particular skill.

I'm fine with it because it, alongside CE, force a build conundrum.  The player has to make concessions.

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6 hours ago, Airglide2 said:

…and the problem with giving HE 1/5 pen?

Here is the wiki article on Gunnery and Armor Penetration. There are 7 videos on that page as well as all the text and pictures.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

 

On that page, is a sub-section for HE penetration.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#HE_penetration

 

So for 152mm German guns, they have 1/4 HE pen, so they pen 37 mm of armor.  152 / 4 = 38, so 38mm of armor shatters the HE shell and 37mm or lower is penetrated.

If the German 152mm also has IFHE, then it works like this. 152 / 4 =38.  38 * 1.3 = 49.4. IFHE is not rounded, so since 49.4 is larger than 49mm, a German 152mm HE shell with IFHE can pen 49mm of armor.

 

A regular 152mm gun has 1/6 HE pen, so it can pen 24mm of armor.  152 / 6 = 25.33. This is rounded down (25.51 would be rounded up) and would be 25mm armor that shatters the HE shell, so it can pen 24mm or lower of armor.

If the 152mm has IFHE, then it can pen 32mm of armor.  152 / 6 = 25.33 rounded to 25.  25 * 1.3 = 32.5. IFHE is not rounded, so 32.5 is bigger than 32mm and a 152mm gun with IFHE can pen 32mm or lower armor.

 

1/5 pen has not been used by WG. There is no rule that we know of to stop them from using 1/5 HE pen. Will they use 1/5 HE pen at some point? Who knows?

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