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KiyoSenkan

Proposed Consumable: Sabotage

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You didn't refute his point, you just linked sources that could be used to refute or support it.

Huge logical fallacy there.

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On 2018/8/9 at 1:41 AM, Cobraclutch said:

@CCloak @Capt_of_Satisfaction

This is the right explanation of hard and soft counters. 

If DF AA was a hard counter we would not be seeing DM's getting 1 shot by USN AP DB while DF AA was active. 

While it is the right explanation, Madwolf’s point still has to be respected.

For my own counter point. First, you can create a scenario by turning off your AA until your spotted, then burst down the planes with DFAA. That is a hard counter (move) to a CV. Fletcher can do it, Worcester can do that even better. The era where DM is the hard counter to CV has long gone, with the release of the AP bombs. Quickly, CV divisions adapt and replaced DM with Minotaurs, Hindenburgs and AA DDs until Worcester came along. No one would argue against the fact that DFAA from a Full AA Worcester is a hard counter to any CV(where CV divisions may happily use). 

Similarly, one must consider how radar is deployed. While it removes concealment, it requires the player using radar at the exact right moment for it to work. Radar isn’t an auto cast spell, where it detects a DD within range of radar and auto casts for the player. The player, especially in Moskva can misused his radar due to the large concealment. For Moskva, Radar itself is not a hard counter and would require a lot of situations bent towards her to become one. 

The correct argument against radar, for me, is that WG has created too many radar cruisers, that have super low concealment, in which not only radar is easy and reliable to use, but it is also unavoidable by DDs other than hugging islands hard or play very passive.

Simply put, too many ships in the game that can now hard counter DDs. Not the fault of a whole class, nor one consumable, but individual ships with the right tools and stats, and of course all CVs are hard counter to DDs with no AA(which is almost all of them).

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