Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
NoZoupForYou

Daring Preview and the Prevelance if Mandatory IFHE

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

3,299
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
1,637 posts
6,028 battles

‪A look at the Tier 10 Daring (WiP).  Be sure to pack IFHE with this DD, as it’s very dependent on a high skill commander.  It has potential though as both a DD hunter and at burning down BBs.  

Also...  Jingles is out, sadly, so don’t feel bad commenting or liking :)

 

Edited by NoZoupForYou
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,209
[-K-]
Members
7,907 posts
13,067 battles

Already training up my British DD commander up with IFHE on Gallant.  Looking to be a necessary skill to be a proficient gunboat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,502
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
8,477 posts
13,843 battles
6 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Already training up my British DD commander up with IFHE on Gallant.  Looking to be a necessary skill to be a proficient gunboat.

I have a 19pt Jack Dunkirk kitted out for Gallant, and he's probably going to get re-skilled.

The frustrating thing is that I'll need IFHE on him, which isn't optimal on a T6 torpedo boat. I'm also not that excited about using the same captain on the Cossack, IFHE on a T8 gunboat with 120mm guns isn't that useful - you're still below the threshold for 32mm on all the battleships, and 26mm means you still can't penetrate the 27mm extremities of the very common German and American Heavy Cruisers.

So two premiums and one line and three builds ideally needed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,352
[KWF]
Members
3,940 posts
5,946 battles
7 minutes ago, mofton said:

I have a 19pt Jack Dunkirk kitted out for Gallant, and he's probably going to get re-skilled.

The frustrating thing is that I'll need IFHE on him, which isn't optimal on a T6 torpedo boat. I'm also not that excited about using the same captain on the Cossack, IFHE on a T8 gunboat with 120mm guns isn't that useful - you're still below the threshold for 32mm on all the battleships, and 26mm means you still can't penetrate the 27mm extremities of the very common German and American Heavy Cruisers.

So two premiums and one line and three builds ideally needed?

If you time it right with a new captain you can have IFHE when you unlock your T9 . With a bit of work I managed to get 14 points for my Aki at the moment I was finishing the Shiratsuyu grind.

Edited by warheart1992

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
105 posts
3,961 battles

What is so much more dissapointing is how close daring and jutland are to having shells that dont need it. Their 114mm guns by the 1/6 rule would be able to pen 19mm of armor if only the rule was worded slightly differently. Right now the rule states that 1/6 the caliber is the min ammount of armor needed to defeat a HE shell. If it was changed to 1/6th the caliber is the max armor that the HE shells can penetrate then daring and jutland would be able to penetrate destroyer plating and battleship superstructures without IFHE. The only issue with this is that if the rule was changed it would buff every 152 and 150 gun as well to pen 25mm without IFHE.

And worse than this for the two are the facts that the IFHE only allows them to pen superstructures and other DDs, the 19mm plating is the only threshold that IFHE on the 114mm guns cross. Without it as Zoup showed Darings HE is only capable of damaging the superstructures of DDs and crusiers in its entire spread. Thats aweful.

Personally, i just want them to reword the he pen rule as opposed to give the 114mms 1/4 pen, but we will see.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,502
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
8,477 posts
13,843 battles
2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

If you time it right with a new captain you can have IFHE when you unlock your T9 . With a bit of work I managed to get 14 points for my Aki at the moment I was finishing the Shiratsuyu grind.

I'm feeling a bit silly about dumping 1.7m elite captain XP into JJ-Honore just to get 0.3'/s better EM and 0.05% better AR right now...

I'll probably suck it up with one IFHE skilled captain and just accept a less than optimal build on a couple, it's already a pain with things like TAE being well worth it on Gallant but not on Cossack and I'm not even sure on Daring et al.

My experience with Gallant is that she's only comfortable with a 19pt captain, with Icarus and Jervis looking like bad ships at the moment I hate to think of having <14 on them, especially as I'll be looking to save 4 for IFHE and therefore really running 10.

Judicious use of Elite XP might be in my forecast. It's just depressing that 2 premiums don't match the line, although maybe if I get a Campbeltown IFHE will shine there.... hmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40
[TIMT]
Alpha Tester
74 posts

IFHE starts early on at Tier 7 with Atlanta.  It will reduce your fire chance, but you can up the chance with commander skills and flags.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
458
[AP]
Members
1,297 posts
16,142 battles

mandatory IFHE has always been a thing for akizuki/152mm/155mm/ATL

it's nothing new

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,352
[KWF]
Members
3,940 posts
5,946 battles
21 minutes ago, mofton said:

Snip.

Yeah thats always silly. It's kinda sad how many new ships arent  that representative of their lines. Of course then its all about uniqueness and gimmicks.

Another question will be the sweetspot to free xp to if you are really after something. I just hope it will be similar to FR BBs, with very few stinkers.

Edited by warheart1992

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,702
[ARGSY]
Members
17,539 posts
12,181 battles
1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

the sweetspot to free xp to

You need to imbibe the flavour of the line from the start. Skipping any of them would, IMO, be a bad mistake.

Who knows? They might even give us the chance to skip to mid tiers the way they did with the French battleships. Free port slots for anyone who doesn't like them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
109
[NNC]
[NNC]
Beta Testers
411 posts
6,762 battles
4 hours ago, Commissar_Carl said:

What is so much more dissapointing is how close daring and jutland are to having shells that dont need it. Their 114mm guns by the 1/6 rule would be able to pen 19mm of armor if only the rule was worded slightly differently. Right now the rule states that 1/6 the caliber is the min ammount of armor needed to defeat a HE shell. If it was changed to 1/6th the caliber is the max armor that the HE shells can penetrate then daring and jutland would be able to penetrate destroyer plating and battleship superstructures without IFHE. The only issue with this is that if the rule was changed it would buff every 152 and 150 gun as well to pen 25mm without IFHE.

And worse than this for the two are the facts that the IFHE only allows them to pen superstructures and other DDs, the 19mm plating is the only threshold that IFHE on the 114mm guns cross. Without it as Zoup showed Darings HE is only capable of damaging the superstructures of DDs and crusiers in its entire spread. Thats aweful.

Personally, i just want them to reword the he pen rule as opposed to give the 114mms 1/4 pen, but we will see.

 

Just to correct you, 19mm is actually the shatter threshold. 114mm HE can pen anything up to and including 18mm of armour, anything 19mm or more will shatter.  So these guns are going to be incapable of damaging the hulls of pretty much every DD they encounter without IFHE.

I'd like to think that they may get a buff to have 1/4 penetration like they did with the IJN 100mm seeing as part of the reasoning for that buff was to allow them to penetrate the armour of any DD (barring Kharb's 50mm plating) without needing IFHE. But I can see them being reluctant to do this considering the high base fire chance and the ROF of the Jutland and Daring. Even with IFHE, the shatter threshold is increased to 25mm which makes the skill a questionable investment for the cost. 

I don't like this concept of a 'defensive' DD as it feels like there are better ships in the game that can fulfil this role such as US or UK cruisers. They need to have at least the option of taking speed boost. It's currently the only line of DDs in the game that does not get the speed boost as an option. Of course there are DDs that are slower than even Jutland but at least they get speed boost. And then there's the Tier 2-5 DDs which just get shafted because 'national flavour'. Also, if speed boost was an option instead of the hydro then at least IJN DDs have an increased chance of landing torp hits on UK DDs seeing as it's likely so few will take hydro over speed boost. 

Edited by Noble_Taipan
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
510
[VVV]
Members
2,631 posts
10 hours ago, jason199506 said:

mandatory IFHE has always been a thing for akizuki/152mm/155mm/ATL

it's nothing new

Akizuki was just buffed so that IFHE is no longer mandatory (it's still clearly useful since it now breaks the 32mm threshold but with 1/4 pen the 100mm guns are at least functional even without it). And now WG is bringing in new high-tier DDs with the same "mandatory IFHE" issue that they just decided needing fixing on the IJN 2nd DD line.

Edited by Lord_Magus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,651
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,818 posts
4,361 battles

I suspect they will ultimately give the 114s a 1/5th HE pen to balance them out. Enough to compete vs DDs, but not enough to melt down BBs and Cruisers that easily. Or they just throw on a standard British Repair Party (restores 60% of repairable damage) and call it a day.

Then again, this assumes they don't gimmick up the line further with something like no HE, just RNAP only. After all, they're already somewhat gimmicky; exactly as stealthy as IJN DDs, single-fire torpedo capability, and long-duration personal Hydro for an extra second of torpedo warning.

Edited by YamatoA150

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,243
[INTEL]
Members
12,148 posts
33,707 battles
On 7/30/2018 at 9:29 AM, NoZoupForYou said:

‪A look at the Tier 10 Daring (WiP).  Be sure to pack IFHE with this DD, as it’s very dependent on a high skill commander.  It has potential though as both a DD hunter and at burning down BBs.  

I've got an idea... let's flood the game with radar so the DD population dies back. Then we'll introduce a line of DD hunters! That will go well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,702
[ARGSY]
Members
17,539 posts
12,181 battles
7 hours ago, Lord_Magus said:

And now WG is bringing in new high-tier DDs with the same "mandatory IFHE" issue that they just decided needing fixing on the IJN 2nd DD line.

Then they need to consider giving them the same or a similar buff before release, and the WG-CC's need to push (politely but insistently) for it on our behalf. And if this is the line that leads to a general review and overhaul of IFHE, then perhaps bringing it in has been a good thing.

 

Of course I have to ask the Noob question: since even HE shatters can still start fires, isn't one potential answer - at least W.R.T. battleships and cruisers - to spam HE till the barbecue is lit, then shift to AP?

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
741
[TOG]
Members
4,072 posts
21,962 battles
2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Of course I have to ask the Noob question: since even HE shatters can still start fires, isn't one potential answer - at least W.R.T. battleships and cruisers - to spam HE till the barbecue is lit, then shift to AP?

It will be tough to start fires with a base fire start of 5%. Add the base fire resistance factor for T10's is the hightest one. If you add in the need for IFHE to even penetrate 27 mm bow armor armor, you'll be waiting a long time for the BBQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
510
[VVV]
Members
2,631 posts
11 hours ago, YamatoA150 said:

I suspect they will ultimately give the 114s a 1/5th HE pen to balance them out. Enough to compete vs DDs, but not enough to melt down BBs and Cruisers that easily. Or they just throw on a standard British Repair Party (restores 60% of repairable damage) and call it a day.

Then again, this assumes they don't gimmick up the line further with something like no HE, just RNAP only. After all, they're already somewhat gimmicky; exactly as stealthy as IJN DDs, single-fire torpedo capability, and long-duration personal Hydro for an extra second of torpedo warning.

I would prefer 1/5 HE pen (for the 114mm only; 120mm can already pen DD plating without IFHE) and having speed boost plus the defensive hydro in a separate slot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,651
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,818 posts
4,361 battles
13 minutes ago, Lord_Magus said:

I would prefer 1/5 HE pen (for the 114mm only; 120mm can already pen DD plating without IFHE) and having speed boost plus the defensive hydro in a separate slot. 

If I had to take a guess, a balanced approach would see:

  • 114s with 1/5 HE Pen, enough to duel other DDs
  • Speed Boost added, but it shares slots with Smoke
  • Retains the same stealthiness as IJN DDs in exchange
  • Retains the massive potential and practical DPM in exchange
  • Hydro remains in its own slot

This would give them two roles: Stealthy DD hunter-killers where they would have to sacrifice smoke for speed boost to keep up, or keep the smoke and instead play support, hanging behind faster DDs and supporting them with their impressive DPM. The Hydro appears to be their main gimmick; screening for torpedoes in the immediate vicinity, so they could also take up screening duties vs another DD, scouting just ahead of any advancing BBs and cruisers in the event an enemy DD is present and attempting to torpedo them.


The gimmick approach that is also possible:

  • HE removed, RNAP (Improved Normalization + Short Fuse) or just Heavily Improved Normalization AP added in place of regular AP
  • Repair Party is added; either British 60% or RNCL Zombie Heal
  • Has no Speed Boost in exchange
  • Retains the same stealthiness
  • No other changes

This then just turns the T9 and T10 into zombie DDs that can wade into a DD fight and likely come out on top thanks to the heals and DPM, but they also can't run away as easily, so they have to pick and choose which battles to fight. AP shells with high normalization basically just lets them bite into DDs without concern for angles and not worry about shatters or bounces, and nibble to death cruisers, while shifting to a torpedo boat role against BBs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×