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Commissar_Carl

HE penetration of 4.5 inch guns

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I am confused as to the HE penetration on the two high tier DDs, Daring and Jutland. If I recall correctly both Notser and Flamu have stated that without IFHE thier guns are incapable of penning other top tier destroyers or the superstructure of larger ships.

My question is why?

The 4.5 inch guns are in metric 114 mm. With the 1/6 caliber ruler for HE pen, 114/6=19mm of HE pen... which is the same as the plating of all the DD's in their tier and the superstructure of any BB or CA. More than this, with IFHE the guns get a extra 25 percent, so 19/4= 4.75, and added to 19 is 23.75. That shouldn't be enough to cross any armor thresholds, and should make IFHE worthless for these ships as opposed to compulsatory.

The only 2 reasons I can think of that this would not be the case are that A) I actually do not understand how HE pen works, or B) Wg is using the technically more accurate caliber of 4.45 inches for the shell, making 113mm so it is barely not enough. However, they advertise it as being 114mm in the dev blog.

So, thoughts?

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Yeah, unfortunately without IFHE the 114mm will fail to penetrate 19mm armor that is all over the hull of high tier DDs.  You could aim for the superstructure of DDs to inflict HE damage but that isn't really practical

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1 hour ago, Notser said:

Yeah, unfortunately without IFHE the 114mm will fail to penetrate 19mm armor that is all over the hull of high tier DDs.  You could aim for the superstructure of DDs to inflict HE damage but that isn't really practical

WG could cheat the HE pen calculation system a bit. Ah, who am I kidding, THEY'RE WG FOR GOODNESS SAKE. THEY WOULD NEVER DO THAT FOR A RN SHIP.

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If the RN 114mm guns will have a standard, 1/6 penetration values, even with a 30% boost from IFHE, they will only penetrate LESS THEN 25mm* plating. 

If the pen values are 1/4, then base pen will LESS THEN 29mm*. So it will damage parts of most heavy cruisers by default. With IFHE it will be able to do damage to LESS THEN 37mm*

My 2 cents on the matter: 1/6 is not enough and 1/4 is too much, look at the IJN 100mm guns...  I wounder, if 1/5 would be satisfactory ?



* Maths: (114 / 6) x 1.3  = 19 x 1.3 = 24.7mm 
               (114 / 4) x 1.3 =  28 .5  x 1.3 =  37.05    36.4 mm  ( I forgot  IFHE calculations are done with whole numbers that are truncated at the decimal point or rounded if .6 and above )
              (114 / 5) x 1.3 = 22 .8  23 x 1.3 =  29.64   29.9mm

IFHE skill description +30% to the armor penetration capacity of HE shells for main battery guns with a caliber up to and including 139mm.

Edited by Sammy_Small
Math mistakes were made

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Has this been resolved yet?  British dd's being forced to take IFHE to damage dd hulls is ridiculous.  Even the Japanese gunboat line got the improved 1/4 pen...

Edited by Torpin

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5 hours ago, Torpin said:

Has this been resolved yet?  British dd's being forced to take IFHE to damage dd hulls is ridiculous.  Even the Japanese gunboat line got the improved 1/4 pen...

Sort of... the 113~114mm guns are getting "improved AP", similar to Royal Navy cruisers, or at least that is what the "rumor" is.

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Basically, WG want to make Jutland and Daring sorta like miniature versions of British cruisers, including having AP with enhanced angles and a heal. HE is just there to set fires (which given the batsh*t rate of fire on Daring, is probably very very easy).

But you could also spend 4 points on IFHE to allow the HE to do direct pen damage.

I'm still on the fence here about these two DDs.

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From running into test Darings multiple times on the  live server, I'm seeing that its rate of fire guarantees it can do a serous about of damage to another DD before you can turn to an angle that makes the AP ineffective... then they just switch to HE and burn you a little before you can disengage.    this seems to especially be the case if you are caught closing in on one.   After playing the Jervis and now the Lightening I'm leaning to RPF instead of IFHE as I am having quite a bit of success getting to a spot ( just outside of radar range) that an aggressive opfor DD might wants to push into, then pounce on them, relying on AP, as they close.   Just use the HE to spread some warmth around.

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